I know, I was just saying. This argument has been had though so I really don't care to do it again.

Do they get credit for the fact that if you just put Elvis in a movie, playing basically Elvis, that it makes tons of moniez. Basically 90 minute videos.

Basically, Elvis is a marketing machine, and that matters in this imo.

Yeah, it's pretty much like saying Babe Ruth would be a terrible pick in a baseball draft because he played against lessor competition. While that's true, for the purpose of the draft, I don't think it really holds up as a fair criticism. It's not like Elvis wasn't hugely talented.

Not writing his own songs *does* hurt. I think Lennon/McCartney/Dylan going before him is absolutely what should have happened.

within the structure of this draft, what other talent(s) does he have other than singing?

(aka dancing, hysteria/swoon/faint-inducement, etc don't really matter)

not to beat this dead horse again. i think i'll probably just take a simple response at face value and leave it at that...

Negative credit imo - this almost killed popular music as culturally significant in the USA - only avoided by (depending on one's theory of history) either (a) the combined efforts of draft picks 4, 5, 13 and the label which was home to 2, 15, 20 (and who's presiding genius is still bizarrely undrafted) - or (b) baby boomers (who's death grip thereafter is evident on many many of the choices here)

The ability to make massive amounts of money without sacrificing critical acclaim. He uses his singing, dancing, and charisma to make this happen.

Three times, really? I just think his popularity had more to do with image/sex appeal and less to do with musical value. I listen to bands like stones/beatles and several of Elvis's undrafted contemporaries more than Elvis. Maybe it's just my taste but I find most of his top hits to just be nothing special at all.


From the first post ITT:

We are drafting musicians with the goal of creating the best music studio possible. This means, essentially, amassing the most creative talent possible. The artists you draft can work together, or separately (and will have full access to studio session musicians for any projects they want to take on). Your goal should not be strictly commercial success, or (to a certain degree) strictly critical success, but to make music that is well-regarded and influential and timeless.

Elvis was an enormous commercial success but as far as a creative talent, 5th overall is spew IMO.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong but as far as I know he composed little of his music even though his name sometimes (falsely) appears as having done so. Basically he is a very good singer, awesome performer but as far as overall value in this draft ...

I hadn't really thought of that. I was trying to focus more on the musicmaking, because I didn't want people to focus too much on the commercial side of things or just go straight-up for RECORD SALEEEEEEEEZZZZZZ. Like, I wanted people to more focus on GOAT artists (as musicians and performers), without going overboard and drafting a bunch of obscure nobodies for their technical brilliance.

It seems people are taking the commercial side strongly into account, though. That's fine, too, I guess. But if ALL your artist has going for him/her are SALEZZZZZ, you're not going to be very highly regarded.

Good thing Elvis was a singer then amirite

Agreed, but the Elvis detractors are acting as if this is the case with him when it clearly isn't even remotely the case.

Elvis' music is well-regarded, extremely influential and still enjoyed by millions today. And he sold more records than any other individual in history. There is absolutely no chance anyone like him would have been available later on.

I just realised I'm on invisible mode.

brbremovingcloak.

Well, the usual argument is that he was the gateway (drug) that enabled white americans to like black american music - that his pre-army vocal stylings were "blacker" than his white r'n'r artist contemporaries. I don't really believe that, but his pr machine/management were certainly more effective. Hard to get into details without explicitly mentioning undrafteds. (But pick 24 and undrafted who died in an LA motel had a lot of influence as well from "the other side".)

You're misinterpreting what the word "creative" means in this draft imo. Under your guidelines, this would be strictly a composer draft and musicians would have very little value at all. That obviously wasn't nath's intent for this.

Musicians can be creative in many more ways besides writing music. Elvis did things vocally that were very innovative and influential.

From his wiki:

He was successful, I'm not questioning that.

I don't listen to radio much but when I do, I think I hear about 100 beatles songs for every one Elvis song. Wonder why that is. Could it be that the beastles are musically just so awesome compared to Elvis?

I said he was a very good singer. Did you miss that part?

No, but I did miss the part where you made any good points about him being a spew in the top five.

That's ok, don't worry about it.

I don't often drink beer, but when I do...

That has about as much relevance as this.

so...anyone have any thoughts on Nina Simone?

i know nothing, other than general name recognition...

(and some random lyrical reference that i can't place right now)

She's super talented, but I don't think anyone else would have gone after her for a couple of rounds.

There are a few guys available who are insane value. Rest assured I will snap one of them up with my next pick.

Okay, basically skipping over everything.....posting my thoughts on the picks.

IMO both Nas and Biggie should have been taken over Em, Dre, and 2pac.

Nas in particular has had a career somewhat similar to Jay-Z, with just less commercial success. He's remained relevant for a long time with his strong lyrical ability and by teaming up with some awesome producers later in his career. The combo of Nas and Jay-Z is instantly the best lyrical label out of the two (or three) rap labels. Biggie helps Dye a ton though.

Biggie is my favorite rapper of all time, so I am horribly biased here. I think he was destined to be huge (no pun intended) if he hadn't been murdered. He was the complete package as far as rappers go imo.

Both Cash and Berry are good picks, but I am glad we didn't pick them. Hope that makes sense.

Garcia seems cool

James and Simone are two epic voices. Don't know enough about either to really comment, other than to say that James Taylor's voice sounds as good now as it did 30 years ago, which is pretty awesome.

Babyface is an awesome pick, but agree with TuT, from a value point of view it seems bad. Super producer and writer, plus he can sing!