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Old 05-14-2008, 12:19 PM   #2101
Seadood228
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I think Mutombo went late if anything. Finding a #1 or #2 won't be nearly as difficult as finding someone who can defend the middle on a level Mutombo did.
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Old 05-14-2008, 12:23 PM   #2102
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Round #1/Pick #33: Grant Hill



Since the 1979-1980 season, there have been six players who averaged at least 20 points, 8 rebounds, and 5 assists per game, with a PER over 25. The list: Michael Jordan, Larry Bird, Kevin Garnett, Magic Johnson, Charles Barkley, and Grant Hill (LBJ was .1 RPG away, so we can toss him in there too). Hill did this at age 24, averaging 21.4, 9.0, and 7.3 with a 25.5 PER, while leading a Pistons team that had no other player over a 17 PER to 54 wins (and a 57 win pythag). At 24 years old. After his first 6 seasons, only two players in NBA history had accumulated the stats (points, rebounds, and assists) he had: Larry Bird and Oscar Roberston.

Defensively he was very solid. At 24, his best season (the year mentioned above), he also posted a defensive rating of 99.7 with 17.3 win shares.

6 straight all-star games. 5 straight all-NBA teams (4 2nds and 1 1st). Top 10 in NBA voting 5 straight years (3rd in 96-97). The prototype for how the small forward position is to be played. I'm ecstatic to build my team around such a multi-dimensional, hard-working, unselfish player like Grant Hill.


Team so far: SF Grant Hill
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Old 05-14-2008, 12:24 PM   #2103
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by ClarkNasty View Post
He's been clearly the BPA since Iverson came off the board IMO.
FWIW Ive got almost 10 running through my head and had finally settled on taking Deke if he was available when I went to bed last night. Great pick.
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Old 05-14-2008, 12:29 PM   #2104
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Here are my thoughts on the 3 picks surrounding my own

Marion- I didn't like it at first, and am happy you went with him over Hill, but you can't really knock this pick. Like he said, Marion is very versatile and will fit into what offensive system needs him, this in addition to being a great defensive player. In the beginning of his career he could create a little for himself, but he's much better as a complimentary player.

Reggie- Eh...again I didn't like it at first and I'm still not convinced. Guy could shoot extremely well and did turn it up when it mattered, but there's absolutely nothing else to his game.

Deke- I'm not sold on this pick. Yes there's a scarcity of centers and having one that will be able to defend any other big man will be good, but like Bobbo said, even as Deke as your third banana offensively is a leak. Still, good defensive anchor.

It's going to be very interesting to see how this stretch of teams (starting at AI and continuing down) will build around it's players as they're not going to be as centrally dominated as the earlier teams.
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Old 05-14-2008, 12:33 PM   #2105
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6x1p46_uc7Q

Clark could you edit that link into my post please?
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Old 05-14-2008, 12:58 PM   #2106
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Deke was a mega-steal there. I think a very convincing argument can be made that Deke > Yao and Deke > Zo if we're assuming kidney failure.
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Old 05-14-2008, 01:10 PM   #2107
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I don't like the Reggie Miller pick very much. Its's certianly defensible, and the TS% is very impressive, but Reggie contributes virtually nothing beyond scoring. I think there are many guards still available whose TS% is also very high (not as high as Reggie's of course), and who are also either great passers or defenders. Reggie had a longer peak than most other guards who are still available, but I would still prefer someone who brings more than one skill to the table.
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Old 05-14-2008, 01:14 PM   #2108
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Ok I officially hate my pick, ambiguity over the injury rule is probably screwing me over but whatever. Im actually physically flipping a coin now between two guys now....

Ok I draft Chris Webber.

Hopefully I feel a lot better about this when who I want to fall to me falls to my second pick. Write up in a bit
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Old 05-14-2008, 01:17 PM   #2109
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I was wondering when he would go. Injury a major concern, but he's probably BPA. Dude was the #1 guy on a team that by all accounts should have gone to the Finals through a Lakers dynasty.
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Old 05-14-2008, 01:18 PM   #2110
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by AC-Cobra View Post
Ok I officially hate my pick, ambiguity over the injury rule is probably screwing me over but whatever. Im actually physically flipping a coin now between two guys now....

Ok I draft Chris Webber.

Hopefully I feel a lot better about this when who I want to fall to me falls to my second pick. Write up in a bit
I was considering him with my pick, but stayed away because of chronic injuries and very low TS% for a big man. I think having inefficient top scoring options is very detrimental to winning in this league. Two factors that are huge pluses, however:
- one of the best passing big men of his generation
- until I looked at his stats, I didn't realize what an awesome defender he was in his prime
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Old 05-14-2008, 01:19 PM   #2111
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by AC-Cobra View Post
Ok I officially hate my pick, ambiguity over the injury rule is probably screwing me over but whatever. Im actually physically flipping a coin now between two guys now....

Ok I draft Chris Webber.

Hopefully I feel a lot better about this when who I want to fall to me falls to my second pick. Write up in a bit
I was wondering when my 2nd favorite player all time would go. Good pick. At his peak he was very very good honestly on both sides of the ball. Injury problems are definitely big but he is a solid pick. I thought he was the BPA. I was praying he slipped farther but I'm honestly happy he didn't.
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Old 05-14-2008, 01:19 PM   #2112
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

and the last of the 20-10-5 guys gets drafted. webber is a VERY unusual skillset imo.

would be fun to build around tho bc of his ability in the high post to dictate an offense. can really put an interesting team around him. he was going somewhere around here, so not a bad selection at all
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Old 05-14-2008, 01:28 PM   #2113
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Surprised Mt. Mutombo fell as far as he did..

Any way the OP in the draft thread can be changed so it lists the order along with what player was taken at each pick... would be much easier than having to scroll all the way to the bottom with all of the pics in each post.
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Old 05-14-2008, 01:38 PM   #2114
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I like the mutumbo pick alot, scorers are easily found in the NBA, but a great defender like mutumbo very hard to find a real stopper like that. He was the other guy I was thinking about instead of Wade, and I woulda been a lot happier going with him. Mutumbo is a solid concervative pick, Im more of a gambool kinda guy so I went with wade.
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Old 05-14-2008, 01:41 PM   #2115
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

****, i wake up to see webber and mutombo picked. oh well. saves me from webber's injury problems, but i really wanted mutombo
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Old 05-14-2008, 01:46 PM   #2116
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

did anyone pm bigcat? im heading out to play ball but looks like we can get a lot done today
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Old 05-14-2008, 01:57 PM   #2117
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I think Mutumbo is the biggest steal thus far.
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Old 05-14-2008, 01:59 PM   #2118
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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did anyone pm bigcat? im heading out to play ball but looks like we can get a lot done today
Done.

I wasnt over enamored with C-Webb but in the end I had to go for him. A 20/10/5 guy whos also pretty good on defense isn't too bad to build around. I wont talk about the others I was considering, I might even have a chance at some in a few picks.

Whats everyone elses thoughts on the injury ruling on C-Webb? The knee injury was a freak and severely limited him. Obviously that doesnt write off his injury problems but I want to know how much Im gonna suffer for this one. Was the only major point that had me stumbling on him. We talking Grant Hill style catastrophe or a lot less?
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Old 05-14-2008, 02:00 PM   #2119
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I think Mutumbo is the biggest steal thus far.
No way, Pippen by a country mile. Mutombo was definitely very good value tho.
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Old 05-14-2008, 02:09 PM   #2120
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Done.

I wasnt over enamored with C-Webb but in the end I had to go for him. A 20/10/5 guy whos also pretty good on defense isn't too bad to build around. I wont talk about the others I was considering, I might even have a chance at some in a few picks.

Whats everyone elses thoughts on the injury ruling on C-Webb? The knee injury was a freak and severely limited him. Obviously that doesnt write off his injury problems but I want to know how much Im gonna suffer for this one. Was the only major point that had me stumbling on him. We talking Grant Hill style catastrophe or a lot less?
Hill pick worse than this. But Webber has seemingly missed time for injuries on every part of his body. Clear injury risk but not as bad a pick as Hill imo, partly due to alternatives available.
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Old 05-14-2008, 02:09 PM   #2121
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Done.

I wasnt over enamored with C-Webb but in the end I had to go for him. A 20/10/5 guy whos also pretty good on defense isn't too bad to build around. I wont talk about the others I was considering, I might even have a chance at some in a few picks.

Whats everyone elses thoughts on the injury ruling on C-Webb? The knee injury was a freak and severely limited him. Obviously that doesnt write off his injury problems but I want to know how much Im gonna suffer for this one. Was the only major point that had me stumbling on him. We talking Grant Hill style catastrophe or a lot less?
You're main problem is that you're getting him at 24, so you miss one or two years of value.
Then you're getting a couple ef very good years.
You're not building for the long term, but anyway it's pretty ******ed to build for when your the very long term as if we're pretending to run a league, there's no telling what would happen in the following years, so immediate value(two contracts>>>>long term value IMO)
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Old 05-14-2008, 02:12 PM   #2122
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Hill pick worse than this. But Webber has seemingly missed time for injuries on every part of his body. Clear injury risk but not as bad a pick as Hill imo, partly due to alternatives available.
wow...no one on the board was nearly as talented as hill. and you all are making way too big a deal about this injury. every player has soft spots on his body (except iverson), it's just how their training staff deals with it. look at nash's back as a great example. sure he misses a couple games a year, but if he played on it when it was really killing him i'm sure it would be a much bigger problem.
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Old 05-14-2008, 02:24 PM   #2123
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Hill pick worse than this. But Webber has seemingly missed time for injuries on every part of his body. Clear injury risk but not as bad a pick as Hill imo, partly due to alternatives available.
This is what I was expecting. I cant go into detail yet because of players not picked.

Horizon,

I get slightly more than a couple of years. I get 6 awesome years before the injury (make it 5 because he only played 42 in 99 and 54 in 02, but when he did, he was still putting up great numbers). Then he only plays 23 games with the major injury and is 20/10/5 guy again the next year over 67 games. Even at age 32 at philly he was 20.2/9.9/3.4 even though his value was clearly reduced by limited mobility on defence at this point.

Obviously the injuries are limiting, he would of been a lot better and a lot higher pick if it wasnt for this, but people seem to look particularly unfavourably upon C-Webb because expectations were so high.
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Old 05-14-2008, 02:24 PM   #2124
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I think AC Cobra is spot on...though he may not be the best player to build a team around, CWEBB is one very good pick.

I love the Kimbe Tumbo pick also.

Hill pick deserve some vomit. Anyone got some vomit?
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Old 05-14-2008, 02:25 PM   #2125
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

99 was the strike year, so 42 games isn't as bad as it appears.
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