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Old 05-14-2008, 01:59 AM   #2026
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Oh boy...
?
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Old 05-14-2008, 02:01 AM   #2027
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I like the Miller pick.
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Old 05-14-2008, 02:05 AM   #2028
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Wow, how does Reggie Miller go in the first round?
He is a great shooter, one of the best ever, but wow....first round?
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Old 05-14-2008, 02:08 AM   #2029
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Since it looks like the draft it going to be reverse snake, I like the Reggie pick.

If the draft doesn't change, I don't like it at all.
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Old 05-14-2008, 02:08 AM   #2030
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Also what a ****ing value pick on reggie - ****ing finally - his WSAA is ridiculous, solid PER, good defense, ~ 40% career from three, all-time leader in TS% , and ideal in this format as his outside shooting will keep opposing defenses spaced, allowing for solid offense. Also plays multiple positions which is good for draft flexibilty

Edit: plus the name of the game in this draft is efficiency which is what miller brings to the table more than anyone in the modern era.
Only knock on Reggie though is his best really wasn't that good. Well, let me rephrase this: Reggie had 6 to 8 years where he deserved an all star nod (he only got on 5 times) but absolutely no MVP caliber seasons. (made all NBA 3rd team 3 times, nothing "better" then that) This is just me but he's like the ultimate 2nd option since he is so efficient and is an amazing outside threat and everything, but you cannot plant him as your top scorer and expect to have a premier offense. He's a career 21.6% usage, with the season he bore the brunt of the load topped out at 25.8%. (Weirdly, when he was 30+)

Also, I think the person above said he was good at defense. Uhhh... huh? Strangely he got better when he got older (and I mean much older) but he had only 4 seasons of arguably average to above average defense, and the rest of his career he was a below avg defender. One thing about win shares (someone mentioned this too, dont know if it was OP) is there is no penalty for just accumulating stats. IIRC, Karl Malone is the all time leader in this category. So, the fact Reggie played 18 seasons helps bigtime.

I dont hate the pick here but I think there are a few SGs that I'd rather have above Reggie, as well as other players that are better to build around. (going to have a tough time having either a premier offense or defense, and could possibly have a below average defense)
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Old 05-14-2008, 02:09 AM   #2031
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Miller's one of the most efficient players ever to play the game AND he played forever. He's a legitimate pick, and I don't see how there are four to give shooting guards better.
I don't think there are 4 to 5 better either but there are 2 for sure that are IMO.
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Old 05-14-2008, 02:10 AM   #2032
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Since it looks like the draft it going to be reverse snake, I like the Reggie pick.

If the draft doesn't change, I don't like it at all.
The reverse snake makes it a better pick in my eyes also.
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Old 05-14-2008, 02:12 AM   #2033
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Miller's one of the most efficient players ever to play the game AND he played forever. He's a legitimate pick, and I don't see how there are four to give shooting guards better.
he doesn't have to pick a shooting guard.
There's a couple of players that are clearly better than miller
that are still available. Plus, you can get shooting in later rounds.
There's a player who suffered injury latter in this career who's incredible value right now considering guys like Marion have been taken.
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Old 05-14-2008, 02:14 AM   #2034
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I can only think of one undrafted SG in this era that is close...**** i want to say his name
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Old 05-14-2008, 02:15 AM   #2035
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I Reggie. I'll even be a little blasphemous and give him major leader/clutch bonus points. But his whole career he had entire offenses built around him running around like mad. Couldn't create for himself really at all.

I don't think he went a round and a half too early, but I think he's gone at least 10 picks ahead of where I would feel comfortable snagging him.
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Old 05-14-2008, 02:17 AM   #2036
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Wtf with all this hate for Reggie Miller? I was floored that it took him this long. As a scorer, his efficiency has been incredible. Even in his last two seasons his TS was .600.

Come on now, for a volume shooter, he was the best. I'm not into the whole playoff clutch factor as much as some, but it's hard to deny what he did in the post season, and how he's show up in big games. As far as defense, meh I'm not that concerned as there are plenty of defensive guys out there.

With a career TS% of .614, and the ability to be a 3PT shooter, I think this is a great pick. Offensive weapons aren't hard to come by, but career .600+ shooters @ 20PPG in a slow system are.

Great pick.

Last edited by Seadood228; 05-14-2008 at 02:24 AM.
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Old 05-14-2008, 02:19 AM   #2037
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I Reggie. I'll even be a little blasphemous and give him major leader/clutch bonus points. But his whole career he had entire offenses built around him running around like mad. Couldn't create for himself really at all.

I don't think he went a round and a half too early, but I think he's gone at least 10 picks ahead of where I would feel comfortable snagging him.
What's the difference between coming off a pick and creating off the dribble? It's not like Reggie will be out there all alone. And him running around like mad is pretty good if the guy guarding him is relied upon offensively.
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Old 05-14-2008, 02:23 AM   #2038
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I don't think there are 4 to 5 better either but there are 2 for sure that are IMO.
I know of one that you are thinking, and he's not better, if he was you wouldn't be so worried right now...
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Old 05-14-2008, 02:24 AM   #2039
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I would have banked on a couple 20 PPG 3point sharpshooters from the 80s to have fallen to the 2nd round before taking Miller.

I think theres an obvious high risk pick left and I would take him just because you might as well loosely interpret Assani's injury post to your benefit, then roll the dice. cmon ppl its a gambling forum

Last edited by DontRaisePlz; 05-14-2008 at 02:28 AM. Reason: it would look so good on paper to take him IMO
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Old 05-14-2008, 02:24 AM   #2040
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

The ability of defenders to stay at home in this draft is probably pretty low - good outside shooting can be deadly, esp. with so many solid interior defenders - at least one solid presence for every team. Great perimeter defense against a quick shooter like reggie is more difficult.
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Old 05-14-2008, 02:26 AM   #2041
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Re: GO LAKERS!

reggie isn't bad, imo but there is decent depth in shooters over the last 20-30 years.

BUT PLEASE NO HINTING AT PEOPLE THAT ARE ABOUT TO GET DRAFTED
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Old 05-14-2008, 02:30 AM   #2042
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I would have banked on a couple 20 PPG 3point sharpshooters from the 80s to have fallen to the 2nd round before taking Miller.
There's nobody even close when you factor in volume + TS%.

Really guys, you are talking about a guy who was the very best at something that will be very important in this league. There are plenty of great shooters, but look back and find any who shot 5 threes/game for their career, 90% from the FT line, and had a TS of 60%, all while being their teams #1 option. The add in his elevated playoff numbers (Bobbo said most players' #s go down in the postseason), and I don't think it's even a contest. If scoring is what you are looking for, Reggie is better than many taken before him.

Last edited by Seadood228; 05-14-2008 at 02:35 AM.
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Old 05-14-2008, 02:32 AM   #2043
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

nobody disputes that Miller is the best of the rangy shooter mold, I just don't value that player type that much: too many of them, and I suspect a majority to be "underdrafted"
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Old 05-14-2008, 02:33 AM   #2044
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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nobody disputes that Miller is the best of the rangy shooter mold, I just don't value that player type that much: too many of them, and I suspect a majority to be "underdrafted"
probably inefficient 20/10/5 forwards are much more overvalued from what I'm seeing so far.
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Old 05-14-2008, 02:36 AM   #2045
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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nobody disputes that Miller is the best of the rangy shooter mold, I just don't value that player type that much: too many of them, and I suspect a majority to be "underdrafted"
miller is in a different class imo b/c of the effort he made to get open, whereas a lot of the other sharpshooters were more or less campers in comparison
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Old 05-14-2008, 02:38 AM   #2046
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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probably inefficient 20/10/5 forwards are much more overvalued from what I'm seeing so far.
Exactly.

What amazes me is that he's put in the class of "great shooters." That's like putting Duncan in a class of "great defenders." They both are quite a ways ahead of their competition..
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Old 05-14-2008, 02:41 AM   #2047
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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There's nobody even close when you factor in volume + TS%.
false, I'll leave it at that.

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What's the difference between coming off a pick and creating off the dribble? It's not like Reggie will be out there all alone. And him running around like mad is pretty good if the guy guarding him is relied upon offensively.
Because sometimes you're going to be relied upon to score when it isn't convenient. It also limits the roles of teammates somewhat. I'm not against off-ball screens at all, they're an effective weapon, but it bothers me when that's pretty much all you run.
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Old 05-14-2008, 02:42 AM   #2048
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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probably inefficient 20/10/5 forwards are much more overvalued from what I'm seeing so far.
? Which guy selected so far is an inefficient 20/10 guy?
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Old 05-14-2008, 02:43 AM   #2049
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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probably inefficient 20/10/5 forwards are much more overvalued from what I'm seeing so far.
I'm going to be a nit here. there is no such thing as an inefficient 20/10/5. lol. here are the people to have accomplished such a feat:
Charles Barkley
Larry Bird
Kevin Garnett
(and 1 other guy I'll leave nameless)

Also going to bed, but, you're better off saying people are drafting guys who play offense and defense rather then just offense.
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Old 05-14-2008, 02:46 AM   #2050
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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miller is in a different class imo b/c of the effort he made to get open, whereas a lot of the other sharpshooters were more or less campers in comparison
I'm too young to have even watched basketball before Jordan's 2nd 3-peat so I don't know this, but some of the players I had in mind never struck me as camping specialists, at least not to the extreme of today.
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