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Old 05-14-2008, 12:31 AM   #1976
ClarkNasty
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I think David Robinson and MJ's "lost" seasons are freak injuries. 1 year, healthy otherwise.

Hill, TMac and others not yet drafted are pretty obviously injury prone to me.
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Old 05-14-2008, 12:32 AM   #1977
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by sergsz View Post
I was going to take Hill if he slipped to me - he was a monster when healthy. I really feel that we need to clarify this injury thing - it has a ridiculously huge impact on the value of many players. Let's use Hill as an example. You draft Hill, you enjoy 4 super-productive years, what happens next? Is he injured 100% of the time after that in our league? 80%? 50%? 25%? Obviously we won't come up with an exact %, but we need some sort of framework that everyone understands.
from my understanding (i suppose no one is taking an authoritarian standpoint) but it seems your career in this will reflect but not perfectly emulate real life. So, in his case, in real life he played 80, 81, 50*, then 74 from 1996-2000. (* is strike shortened) and then went on to play 4, 14, 29, 67, 21, 65, 70. So... In the league he probably will play fewer then 25% of games after 3ish seasons, missing a ton if not all playoff games, and will have almost no value. I think ???
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Old 05-14-2008, 12:33 AM   #1978
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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The injury thing is such a grey area its ridiculous.

What isn't a freak injury? Christ, some were arguing Zo's kidney problems was a freak injury.
Going to quote this, since I too want exact examples of freak injuries.

Also, is van exel around? he was posting not too long ago
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Old 05-14-2008, 12:34 AM   #1979
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by BobboFitos View Post
Assani, you need to have a stronger stance then this.
IMO, given what was just posted, Grant Hill WILL be very injury prone, and could potentially miss out on his peak years, like what happened in real life.

My question then, can you give me examples of freak injuries that will be washed away?
Maybe I'm not being clear....I cannot say which injury is a freak one and which one isn't because I don't know any better than you.

Imagine for a second that God created the world and it resets every so many years and history simply goes through another trial...same people but different decisions, actions, and consequences. Now this current "run through" of the world has finished and we're on the next one....only difference being that all NBA players in the previous run through are the same age(24 years old right now) and we have to draft them. They ahve the same exact body types and skillsets as in the previous world. Now will Grant Hill get injured severely in this world? I have no clue. I certainly would think that hes a bigger injury risk than someone else as theres a distinct chance he is indeed injury prone and it wasn't just bad luck. But I can't say for sure, as my guess is no better than yours or anyone elses.

Does that make sense? I apologize if I'm not explaining things clearly here...its makes sense in my head, but I could understand how it may not come out clearly when I write.
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Old 05-14-2008, 12:35 AM   #1980
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by BobboFitos View Post
Also, is van exel around? he was posting not too long ago
Stop mentioning players please.

I kill myself.
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Old 05-14-2008, 12:35 AM   #1981
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by ClarkNasty View Post
I think David Robinson and MJ's "lost" seasons are freak injuries. 1 year, healthy otherwise.

Hill, TMac and others not yet drafted are pretty obviously injury prone to me.
I know this MAY be against the rules, but I don't want to stumble into a trap:

Can we list other guys who had a freak injury?

THESE GUYS HAVE NOT BEEN DRAFTED YET AND I APOLOGIZE BUT I WANT THE CLARIFICATION:
Gilbert Arenas - seems not to be a freak injury
Elton Brand - seems like this IS a freak injury?
TJ Ford - seems like this defines freak injury???
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Old 05-14-2008, 12:37 AM   #1982
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I'd say
Injury prone
Freak
Injury prone

I think the first two are very clear.
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Old 05-14-2008, 12:37 AM   #1983
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Seadood228 View Post
Stop mentioning players please.

I kill myself.
van exel is the name of the person on the clock
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Old 05-14-2008, 12:38 AM   #1984
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

SB,

He knew that. Hence "I kill myself".
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Old 05-14-2008, 12:39 AM   #1985
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by BobboFitos View Post
I know this MAY be against the rules, but I don't want to stumble into a trap:

Can we list other guys who had a freak injury?

THESE GUYS HAVE NOT BEEN DRAFTED YET AND I APOLOGIZE BUT I WANT THE CLARIFICATION:
Gilbert Arenas - seems not to be a freak injury
Elton Brand - seems like this IS a freak injury?
TJ Ford - seems like this defines freak injury???
Bobbo,

It is up to each individual poster to decide for themselves if a player is injury prone or just happened to get injured a lot. Anyone saying anything definitively is wrong.

Its like the Butterfly Effect....suppose we went back in time and Grant Hill got drafted by another team. Would he still have had those same injuries? Maybe not...maybe he only got those injuries because he was in the wrong palce at the wrong time. Or maybe he would still get some injuries as his body type is just prone to injuries.

I don't know what would happen. Certainly though I do think theres more risk in taking someone that may be injury prone and I bump them down accordingly.
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Old 05-14-2008, 12:40 AM   #1986
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by ClarkNasty View Post
I'd say
Injury prone
Freak
Injury prone

I think the first two are very clear.
oops, right, makes sense the last guy is injury prone and not a freak accident, for whatever reason i keep mistaking his injuries were due to someone like swinging at him and causing him to miss a ton of time, but that was this year and just re aggravated a previous injury etc etc.
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Old 05-14-2008, 12:42 AM   #1987
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Just wanted to add that I like that drafters are announcing that they'll be "making their pick shortly." It gives guys on deck the chance to get ready.
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Old 05-14-2008, 12:42 AM   #1988
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Assani,

The problem with the vagueness is that people who pick the player will argue to the death that they won't get injured. Even though you, or anyone else may not be able to make a 100% correct decision on certain types of players on their injuries, there still should be some time of classifying so we have something to go off of.
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Old 05-14-2008, 12:43 AM   #1989
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

so what this means is we should expect someone, like a grant hill, to be "healthy" throughout, but, has a higher chance of a career ending injury, and will not be a guy who plays all 82 games, but rather in the 65ish range. fine. I can live with that. a guy like the admiral, who had 1 season missed, but other then that really healthy, should rarely if ever have a career ending injury, and will play nearly every game. ok, that works for me. ive been ranking injured players FAR lower then i should be.
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Old 05-14-2008, 12:43 AM   #1990
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

One more for the "injured" list, and I hate to bring this up, but Reggie Lewis? He was awesome, but there is obv a huge "what if" factor there.

This is making me sad just thinking about it.

D
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Old 05-14-2008, 12:45 AM   #1991
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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One more for the "injured" list, and I hate to bring this up, but Reggie Lewis? He was awesome, but there is obv a huge "what if" factor there.

This is making me sad just thinking about it.

D
I don't think this could be anything but a freak accident. Same for the ridiculously pure SG from Croatia.
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Old 05-14-2008, 12:45 AM   #1992
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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One more for the "injured" list, and I hate to bring this up, but Reggie Lewis? He was awesome, but there is obv a huge "what if" factor there.

This is making me sad just thinking about it.

D
there are a few guys who will remain nameless because im hoping they slip to me, but had drug and/or alcohol problems, should i lump this in with injuries? freak injury i hope? (ok, maybe not freak injury) some people ended their careers bc of things like that.
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Old 05-14-2008, 12:47 AM   #1993
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Let's pretend Len Bias played a year in the NBA and died. I'd consider him undraftable as a coke user (regardless of how often he had used it at the time) who would ruin his career (if not die again).
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Old 05-14-2008, 12:47 AM   #1994
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Franchise 60 View Post
Assani,

The problem with the vagueness is that people who pick the player will argue to the death that they won't get injured. Even though you, or anyone else may not be able to make a 100% correct decision on certain types of players on their injuries, there still should be some time of classifying so we have something to go off of.
I don't think I'm being vague. I think that I don't know.

Imagine God said to you that hes created an EXACT CLONE of Grant Hill at age 24. Thats what you have. Now do you think hes more likely to get hurt than other players? Thats for you to decide, as my opinion on that is no more valid than anyone elses. Certainly its not debatable that Hill's clone is riskier than other players since Hill appeared to get injured a lot. But I can't say for sure. Its a risk.

I'm not trying to be vague on the rules. I'm trying to be clear on the rules, but leave it up to the drafters to determine the implications of them.

Basically if you want MY OPINION then I'd downgrade people like Hill for sure, as its possible that he truly was injury prone and that his clone will be so as well. However, there comes a point where the risk is worth the reward.
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Old 05-14-2008, 12:49 AM   #1995
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
I
Imagine God said to you that hes created an EXACT CLONE of Grant Hill at age 24. Thats what you have. Now do you think hes more likely to get hurt than other players? Thats for you to decide, as my opinion on that is no more valid than anyone elses.
I think this is the most clear way to describe it. Just imagine that each player has a clone that is 24 years old(or for currently younger players you just get them now, no clone needed). Now draft them.
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Old 05-14-2008, 12:50 AM   #1996
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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there are a few guys who will remain nameless because im hoping they slip to me, but had drug and/or alcohol problems, should i lump this in with injuries? freak injury i hope? (ok, maybe not freak injury) some people ended their careers bc of things like that.
Drugs/Alchohol are probably the farthest thing from freak injuries/occurances imo.
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Old 05-14-2008, 12:50 AM   #1997
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

its sad, but i would assume that heart attacks at a young age are generally due to genetic heart conditions (like enlarged heart, etc) or drug use, so while its not an inevitability, its significantly more likely than others.
http://www.ronsuskind.com/newsite/ar...es/000038.html
this article is basically all about the reggie lewis death, and most doctors think it was because of cocaine use.
"Dr. Munn guided the others, but there wasn't much need: On the left ventricle of Mr. Lewis's heart were three black patches -- dead spots. Such dead tissue is most commonly caused by arteriosclerosis, mostly in older patients, or by viruses, drug use or a previous heart attack."


if i had all the evidence from the future, i would have guessed grant hill at 24 to be the 65 game/year type of player with the non-trivial chance of a career threatening injury every year (probably increasing each year it didnt happen)

and assani: these clones that we're making, they inherit whatever damage the body has on it at 24, right?
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Old 05-14-2008, 12:52 AM   #1998
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Yeah. On heart/kidney stuff, under Assani's exact clone scenario its pretty clear that stuff is almost inevitable.
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Old 05-14-2008, 12:52 AM   #1999
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Drugs/Alchohol are probably the farthest thing from freak injuries/occurances imo.
yeah, it was a bad joke. i also think then that diseases (ie mourning's kidneys) are unavoidable and WILL happen, esp bc it's a "clone" of the original.
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Old 05-14-2008, 12:52 AM   #2000
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

A clone of Reggie Lewis at 24 has the same heart conditions as Reggie Lewis who died.
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