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Old 05-13-2008, 03:36 PM   #1801
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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It's PER for the opponent of the PG. It's not a great rating, as I said earlier there aren't many great defensive ratings.
2- http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ws.html
The PER/opponent is an interesting stat. What's more interesting is the leader on your list. I've seen him play in just about every game this year, and would have considered him an average defender at best.
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Old 05-13-2008, 03:36 PM   #1802
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Does anyone know this sammykid11? He has been on the clock for 12 hours. Man, I want to pick argh.
He posted something at 2:34 AM EST last morning.....could he possibly be still sleeping or maybe working.
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Old 05-13-2008, 03:37 PM   #1803
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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I don't think anyone is arguing that Nash is as good as Lebron or Kobe. There is a reason LBJ went 3, Kobe went 10, and Nash lasted til 27. But just because he is not in Lebron's and Kobe's class doesn't make him a bad pick and that point in the draft.
I don't think he's a particularly bad pick.
And I did not mean to necessarly compare to James, as it is obvious who the better player is. My point is that his teams were good enough that he can get criticized for not being more competitive in the playoffs.
Good luck building a team as good as those suns or Maverick teams(Stoudemire and Dirk are gone) that were very rarely a real threat to win the title. Who else as the feeling that with 40 teams our team won't be as stacked as previously thought? anyone made a mock till the third or fourth round? The value of top picks seems huge.
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Old 05-13-2008, 03:38 PM   #1804
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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The PER/opponent is an interesting stat. What's more interesting is the leader on your list. I've seen him play in just about every game this year, and would have considered him an average defender at best.
Who do you consider a good PG defender?

Gary Payton / Kidd in their haydays aren't around. To me Rondo is a pretty good/solid defender for a PG in the NBA, but the position itself as someone stated earlier is hard to be a good defender b/c of size and where you are on the floor.
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Old 05-13-2008, 03:40 PM   #1805
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Who do you consider a good PG defender?

Gary Payton / Kidd in their haydays aren't around. To me Rondo is a pretty good/solid defender for a PG in the NBA, but the position itself as someone stated earlier is hard to be a good defender b/c of size and where you are on the floor.
The Glove was great on D. Can't think of anyone better, wish he had fallen to me.
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Old 05-13-2008, 03:42 PM   #1806
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Who do you consider a good PG defender?

Gary Payton / Kidd in their haydays aren't around. To me Rondo is a pretty good/solid defender for a PG in the NBA, but the position itself as someone stated earlier is hard to be a good defender b/c of size and where you are on the floor.
For starters, he's a beast. There are a couple others, but I won't mention them per Assani's rules. I agree with you though that it's tough to find, ergo not nearly as important as some would make it out to be.
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Old 05-13-2008, 03:46 PM   #1807
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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I wasn't arguing about their turnaround. But since you mentioned it, that other guy was a pretty good PG at the time, and to go from 44 wins to 62 is pretty freaking impressive. My argument was that the Sun's weren't stacked before Nash got there, and that it's possible that the players around him got better because of him.
LOL, I know the rule but still...Wow if somebody's even thinking of takim him right now.
Yeah they were better than expected, but like five or six wins better. Soudemire was already averaging 25-10 at the end of the season before Nash got there.

It's a shame that we can't discuss the other guy as he's much more interesting. I mean you can really blame someone for picking Nash at this point.
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Old 05-13-2008, 04:28 PM   #1808
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Man, I've gone back and forth on this a lot...

Round 1, Pick 30: Yao Ming



-#1 Pick in 2002 NBA Draft
-Six-time All-Star
-Three-time All-NBA Team
-20th in League History in PER (doesn't yet appear on basketball-reference because he hasn't quite played enough minutes)

He's the best center remaining on the board, and he still may have only scratched the surface of what he can do. Starting from age 24, he's given you 18, 22, 25, and 22 ppg along with 8.4, 10.2, 9.4, and 10.8 rpg. He shoots free throws better than any other premier center in the history of the league at 82%. Averages 2 blocks per game throughout his career and shoots 52%, which is good for 40th ever.

Obviously, his down-side is what seems to be his propensity for injury and his waning endurance...both of which may be caused by his extensive international play for China.

We here at Team Sammy will be negotiating a settlement with the Chinese government that would allow Yao more time off. If they won't accept, we will bring in a hypnotist and get him to defect.

Last edited by SammyKid11; 05-13-2008 at 04:48 PM.
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Old 05-13-2008, 04:29 PM   #1809
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I figured he'd go soon. Good pick.

Sick part is the Rockets have 2 players in our top 30 and haven't won a playoff series with both nor has Tracy won one by himself.
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Old 05-13-2008, 04:31 PM   #1810
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I figured he'd go soon. Good pick.
Thanks, I struggled with it a LOT. Won't say who else I was considering until they're off the board, but I was not happy with #29 for picking Wade, as I'd locked in on him and thought that was a great pick.
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Old 05-13-2008, 04:33 PM   #1811
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Last 3 players, TMAC, Yao and Wade all have injury issues. 1 reason why they fell I believe, if they were always healthy, they'd all be much higher.
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Old 05-13-2008, 04:34 PM   #1812
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Thanks, I struggled with it a LOT. Won't say who else I was considering until they're off the board, but I was not happy with #29 for picking Wade, as I'd locked in on him and thought that was a great pick.
IMO it wasn't necessarily a no-brainer, but with my pick coming up I was having a lot of trouble deciding who I was going to pick and Yao was obviously part of the consideration. What counts is what you do with the rest of your picks and how you build around the great wall.
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Old 05-13-2008, 04:34 PM   #1813
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Sick part is the Rockets have 2 players in our top 30 and haven't won a playoff series with both nor has Tracy won one by himself.
Yeah, the current Rockets anyway. Four other former Rockets (counting past-their-prime Barkley and Pippen) have gone that won a whole lot of playoff series.

But yes, down at #30 I had to go for best talent available at the most important position on the floor. If Yao had been gone, I'd have steered away from trying to get a center, but I actually think it's feasible that if we look back at this draft in 5 years we'll wonder how he slipped so far (or he might continue getting injured and I'll laugh at myself for picking the modern-day equivalent of Ralph Sampson in the first freakin' round).
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Old 05-13-2008, 04:35 PM   #1814
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Yao's numbers are deflated given the pace that the team runs. To average 20/10 with that kind of pace is pretty special. To shoot like he does is amazing. I like the pick.
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Old 05-13-2008, 04:35 PM   #1815
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I figured he'd go soon. Good pick.

Sick part is the Rockets have 2 players in our top 30 and haven't won a playoff series with both nor has Tracy won one by himself.
If I thought I'd be locked into getting the Rockets McGrady though, no way would I have taken him.
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Old 05-13-2008, 04:50 PM   #1816
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Paul on 82games.com opp: 17.1. Defensive Win Shares 14.3.
Nash: 17.5. DWS: 4.5.
Rondo: 16.3. DWS: 14.4
Davis: 17.9 DWS: 8.8
Iverson: 14.1 (suprisingly good). DWS: 8.4.
Parker: 15.3. DWS: 10.0.
Calderon: 16.7 DWS: 5.6.
Williams: 15.5 DWS: 6.5

Example of bad: Bibby: 20.0 (3).

There are other methods and of course it's very tough to perfectly gauge defense.
Wow those PER against seem pretty high. Shocked CP3 earned that many defensive win shares. Rondo not making the all defense team is a huge slight. This isn't all that surprising though - PGs that are good at defense (Paul, Rondo, Parker) everyone knew about. People that were bad at defense (Nash, Bibby) everyone knew. I'm surprised Baron didnt have more defensive win shares because he's a good deal better then Parker and Paul at defense, I'm attributing this because the rest of his team is so bad at defense...
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Old 05-13-2008, 04:52 PM   #1817
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Wow those PER against seem pretty high. Shocked CP3 earned that many defensive win shares. Rondo not making the all defense team is a huge slight. This isn't all that surprising though - PGs that are good at defense (Paul, Rondo, Parker) everyone knew about. People that were bad at defense (Nash, Bibby) everyone knew. I'm surprised Baron didnt have more defensive win shares because he's a good deal better then Parker and Paul at defense, I'm attributing this because the rest of his team is so bad at defense...
I was suprised how high CP3s were as well, don't know why though, I don't really understand their math that much on 82games.
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Old 05-13-2008, 04:52 PM   #1818
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I figured he'd go soon. Good pick.

Sick part is the Rockets have 2 players in our top 30 and haven't won a playoff series with both nor has Tracy won one by himself.
I hate using this as a cop out, but it's really not their fault.
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Old 05-13-2008, 04:53 PM   #1819
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Last 3 players, TMAC, Yao and Wade all have injury issues. 1 reason why they fell I believe, if they were always healthy, they'd all be much higher.
ya think!?!?!?!?!?!?!
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Old 05-13-2008, 05:07 PM   #1820
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I have a feeling that overall success in this draft is going to come down to knowledge of 80s players that can fill a need. The great drafters are going to be getting 18/10 power forwards in the later rounds while the bad drafters will be taking some crappy present day point guard.

D
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Old 05-13-2008, 05:15 PM   #1821
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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Assani I was looking through the thread and couldnt find the rules in which we are judging the teams.

Can you put up somewhere the :goals: of the team we are building.
Read the very first post in the thread
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Old 05-13-2008, 05:19 PM   #1822
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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they will play a game before this draft ends.
To clarify they must have played a game before the start of the draft. Otherwise we may have people taking long on purpose in order to wait for the rookies to play a game before they make their picks and that'd obviously be annoying.
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Old 05-13-2008, 05:21 PM   #1823
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

also, my "oh-crap-I-wanted-to-pick-that-guy-but-he-just-missed-the-1979-deadline" all-stars!

G Reggie Theus
G Mo Cheeks
F Bernard King
F Mychal Thompson
C Jack Sikma
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Old 05-13-2008, 05:25 PM   #1824
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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also, my "oh-crap-I-wanted-to-pick-that-guy-but-he-just-missed-the-1979-deadline" all-stars!

G Reggie Theus
G Mo Cheeks
F Bernard King
F Mychal Thompson
C Jack Sikma
For me it's Jerry Sloan... the player!
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Old 05-13-2008, 05:35 PM   #1825
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

It'll be pretty cool to see how these next few picks turn out.
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