just woke up guys, I will have my pick up shortly.

im a little dissapointed with my pick, I was looking forward to getting either payton or pippen. However I like that my guy is a proven playoff performer.

LOL, you diss Barkley and say it is ******ed to pick him over Malone (even though Malone went first ldo), then you take the guy who can't get into Charles' fave five. Priceless.

im a contradictionary person. lol

Tough to argue with Wade's talent, but given his playing style and body, the injuries are pretty much a given. It's a lot easier to drive to the basket every time and take contact when you are built like Lebron.

We are starting franchises. Assume that you will not sell the franchise and you'll own it until you die. Of course by then the players drafted here will retire and be replaced by new rookies.

I've tried to be very clear on this: Operate it exactly as you would a normal franchise in which you were starting in the NBA.

And despite me asking as nicely as possible, you continue to mock the rule. Cool.

did you PM SammyKid11?

wtf...your entire post about Wade is stat based and contains no insight from having watched him play! Glad you like stats when they fit your arguement.

everyone was linking to stats for reasons for selections. Just trying to follow rules.

The real reason I picked him isnt stat based.

Playoff toughness, he already got a championship in 3rd year as best player on the team thats a huge factor for me. the speed factor hes got the be the fastest man alive. Good teamate, on and off the floor. Moves well without the ball, great pick and roll player. Great defender, disrupts alot of what other coaches can do because of the speed he posesses you can run so many defensive sets using him as a roamer because he can recover and close out on the shooters very well.

Cons

He does take too many dribbles on the offensive end which I hate.
Jumper could use some work.


I just counted 6 players I would not have taken ahead of wade.

I don't really like the pick. As a young player, his game is already on the decline. He only shoots a fairly high percentage because he's doesn't shoot an average guard's % of threes (hi monta). He's also a turnover machine who played very poorly on the defensive end last year.

More importantly, he's not a great shooter and his game is predicated on contact, which will be difficult to maintain for a career. He needs to become a more proficient jump-shooter, and I've seen nothing that would lead me to believe that he's capable of that.

[edit] As far as playoff toughness, he's only had 1 year of stellar play in the post season. So 1/4 of his playoff years he got extremely hot and didn't turn the ball over all the time.. I'm willing to dismiss that 1 time as variance.

He rounded his stats up as well

I think claiming that a player got significantly worse due to changing coaches is pretty silly.

You just brought out all the reasons I was hesitant in selecting him. As I said I am not completely happy with the pick, but I needed a #1 option on the team, and I liked him as my best choice compared to the others I was thinking of. I like the 3 other players I was comparing him to a lot better, but I was considering them as number 1 options wouldnt be as effective as wade is during the playoffs as a number one option

You forget how impressive he was during his rookie season in the playoffs ?

Hopefully the league uses a simulator with a high "playoff clutchness" factor.

Doesn't a coach dramatically impact what type of production certain players will have with different schemes and philosophies? I don't know what all goes into this PER stat that seems to be godly, but I imagine it would change dramatically say, if your coach was Mike D'Antoni vs Gregg Popovich (sorry for mentioning before drafted).

The general opinion seems to be that Nash would have had much better stats if he had played the style of basketball early in his career as he currently does. The talent won't change of a player from one coach to another, but his stats would and isn't that pretty much what you are drafting on? Unless you draft a team of all tough, fearless, crafty, clutch, know-how-to-win type cats

If I had the pick the one player who has benefited the most from the hand check rule, it would be Wade. A guard with a less then stellar shot who prefers to drive is exactly the type of player the rule was meant to protect. Although this rule still benefits all guards to some degree. So with the current rule, all the old scoring guards would be putting up even better numbers. Conversely, with old rule you would see a decline in Wades numbers.

And the last problem with Wade is injuries. In the three seasons since turning twenty four he has only averaged 59 games a season (excluding offseason obv). Even with the new hand check rules he has still taken a hell of beating. He really does not have the height or body type to take the kind of abuse his style dictates. Its just too much a risk to have your best player 1. missing 20+ games a season and 2. be too injured to play past the age of 30.

That aside, his numbers are still stellar even with the handcheck rule. But there's just too many negatives about him, both possible and already proven.

I actually believe in the "playoff clutch factor" to an extent. For example Jordan consistently got better during the playoffs. I don't think D Wade can be considered in that class though.

Speaking of which, with regards to the Mcgrady & Nique picks, pretty shocking considering this format and who is still out there.

Perhaps not just the coach, but the team/system.

O'Brien IS a good coach tho, so drafting him really wouldn't be a leak on your team at all imo

Actually, (there was a good Berri article on this) players don't get better in the playoffs. All players get (on average) a little bit "worse". The reason makes sense: Stiffer defenses, typically slower paces. (Which deflate stats) So it's very rare for a player to put up "better" numbers in the playoffs. MJ actually had slightly worse stats in the playoffs then he did in the regular season, however, his slightly worse was still much better then everyone else.

Also, Wade is a fine pick.. Very risky but when healthy he is so talented. Obvious cons have been pointed out (no outside shooting which hurts for a SG, and supreme health risk) but I don't agree he's already in his decline. He was admittedly playing hurt for this entire year (shoulder, back, leg, everything) and still put up all star numbers. I'm hoping next year he's healthy because he's so fun to watch - if healthy, expect a return to MVP numbers.

Your also playing good teams almost every night in the playoffs while you never get to beat up on the lesser teams, that can be said with stiffer Ds, but there aren't many cupcakes in the playoffs even though they go 16 deep.

Thats excactly why stats shouldnt be valued so much, because there are too many outside factors that arent considered.

For a player to average the same points in the playoffs means that he is actually playing better.

Ya I definately took into account the style of play wade has, but looked at his pre 24 numbers and he didnt have any injury consern, and the way the NBA protects the guards I dont think hes at a high risk for any injuries, soon as he enters the paint a foul is called. He averages around 8-10 ft attempts a game as a result.

Assani I was looking through the thread and couldnt find the rules in which we are judging the teams.

Can you put up somewhere the :goals: of the team we are building.

How about this years rookie class? Guess they are off limits?