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Old 05-12-2008, 03:36 PM   #1526
capone0
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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Uhh, he WAS great as the best player on a team.
Debatable. I guess to most he isn't so far.
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Old 05-12-2008, 03:39 PM   #1527
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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Given the run of big men I wonder when assanni's favorite player will get picked. I thought he'd slip to late 2nd round for insane value but I could be wrong.
Juan Dixon is a guard, imo.
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Old 05-12-2008, 03:41 PM   #1528
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

Bobbo- Offensively they are a push. Defensively Zo is a better shot blocker and a better defender. Yao is nice if you want to save on letters for your uni. Zo was a beast.
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Old 05-12-2008, 03:44 PM   #1529
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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Malone's overrated because he plays alongside Stockton
really getting tired of hearing this, as well as vice versa. This whole "makes others better" nonsense gets taken way too far.

Not sure who I think is better. It's very, very close. Similar absolute peaks and similar "primes", but Malone's longevity is insane. I prefer Charles game slightly, but can't really hate on anyone deciding on Malone.
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Old 05-12-2008, 03:44 PM   #1530
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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Jesus is it really 41? Ugh. So many. This really dilutes the league, people wont get more then 3 all stars or so.
I did some quick calculations, could definitely have missed but there are approximately 131 players with 1 all-star appearance or more. So 3.x AS per team. There are also players who have been on the defensive teams that haven't made all-star games so 150 or so all/defensive players available.
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Old 05-12-2008, 03:47 PM   #1531
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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But in the OP, it says that injuries that someone has does not have to happen, i.e. Kidd had a serious knee injury but for the sake of this, he has injury issues but it doesnt not have to happen.

So players like McDyess, Webber, Kidd, Houston, who had serious knee injuries, of which 3 were pretty hampered post injury that they wouldn't have the issue but would be prone to injury.
webber missed 19 games to a dislocated shoulder (and 9 others to something else) in 94/95, and then missed 67 games the next year due to complications with the same shoulder (eventually requiring surgery)

he had 5 relatively injury free years before ankle injuries (along with various others) slowed his career, which the knee injury in '03 basically finished.

i don't know much about the other players though
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Old 05-12-2008, 03:49 PM   #1532
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

Well McDyess was a beast until the injury. Post-injury he wasn't.

Webber as you said had injury issues, but healthy and in his prime he was a first team all-nba player.
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Old 05-12-2008, 03:53 PM   #1533
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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grunching here (will go back to check responses obv) but WOW HOW HAS THE SF SLIPPED THIS FAR ITS INSANE
I kinda want to trade up to grab him and I don't even have a draft pick

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PS there are only two players left from the original dream team
I count 3
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Old 05-12-2008, 04:03 PM   #1534
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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really getting tired of hearing this, as well as vice versa.
the last line should give you a clue that the post is a level
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Old 05-12-2008, 04:04 PM   #1535
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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PS there are only two players left from the original dream team

I count 3
True, but only 2 that deserved to be on it.
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Old 05-12-2008, 04:09 PM   #1536
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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Bobbo- Offensively they are a push. Defensively Zo is a better shot blocker and a better defender. Yao is nice if you want to save on letters for your uni. Zo was a beast.
Agreed, plus with Yao, you are limited to a certain type of team. Zo can run the floor, and very well at that.

D
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Old 05-12-2008, 04:18 PM   #1537
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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BTW, have we settled the snake debate? IMO simply having Michael Jordan on your team is justification for a super snake or whatever it was called.
it's normal snake
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Old 05-12-2008, 04:20 PM   #1538
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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it's normal snake
wildly unfair IMO
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Old 05-12-2008, 04:24 PM   #1539
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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Bobbo- Offensively they are a push. Defensively Zo is a better shot blocker and a better defender. Yao is nice if you want to save on letters for your uni. Zo was a beast.
Well... I dunno. Firstoff Zo is even MORE of an injury concern then Yao. Secondoff Yao is much, much more marketable. (Solid positive there)

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...rnal01&y2=1995

Basically they entered the league at the same age, and Yao is just better in every category at age 24/3rd season. So... You have to convince me that a. offense is a push and b. defense goes to zo

People for whatever reason are saying Yao is a non plus defender, which is hogwash, the rockets defense before yao went down was still rated INCREDIBLY highly. and has been. obviously alot of props go to the fact they've had great defensive coaches (specifically JVG) and individual defenders which make everyone better (Shane Battier) but Yao is still good in the trenches.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...rnal01&y2=1998

Yao is a beast. It actually isn't even that close, Zo is sick, but he's a tier below Yao.
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Old 05-12-2008, 04:29 PM   #1540
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

Yao is def better than Zo on offense, but Zo is def better than Yao on defense. I personally would rather have Zo but it's very close.
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Old 05-12-2008, 04:34 PM   #1541
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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Yao is def better than Zo on offense, but Zo is def better than Yao on defense. I personally would rather have Zo but it's very close.
I am not a fan of defensive rating (assani is) but Yao actually has slightly better defensive ratings then Zo. Further, Yao's teams have historically been atop the league leaders in defensive efficiency; I'd have to do some digging (im not prepared to do) but I don't recall those hornets teams being defensive juggernauts. (I could be wrong here, I didn't ever watch the charlotte hornets!) So, to say Zo is "def" better is misleading; I would chalk them to being pretty similar. Both can anchor a d, that is for sure. Offensively though, Yao is "def" better, which overall, makes him the better player.
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Old 05-12-2008, 04:35 PM   #1542
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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True, but only 2 that deserved to be on it.
well, yeah. i know; i'm from louisiana. we had some lols / outrage when that was announced.
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Old 05-12-2008, 04:37 PM   #1543
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

Both have serious injury problems, didn't realize Zo missed so many games even before the Kidney problems.
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Old 05-12-2008, 04:46 PM   #1544
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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Yao is def better than Zo on offense, but Zo is def better than Yao on defense. I personally would rather have Zo but it's very close.
Offensively, in their primes I believe they are both pretty equal. Zo was more mobile and could do things with the ball from the top of the circle extended. He had a nice 18 footer and good speed to the hoop if you took the shot away.

Yao is better with his back to the basket, and free throw percentage is hugely in his favor which is definately a plus from the big man spot, and your number 1 player on the team.

Defensively however the staggering difference is in favor of zo. The man was a beast inside, not only will he stop his own man, but great in help side shot blocking, and all this without getting into much foul trouble in his prime. He not only averaged ~3 blocks per game but would change another 5-10 shots throughout a game, and scorers would specifically not drive to the bucket if he is in there.
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Old 05-12-2008, 04:48 PM   #1545
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

cue the yao pick now
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Old 05-12-2008, 04:49 PM   #1546
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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I am not a fan of defensive rating (assani is) but Yao actually has slightly better defensive ratings then Zo. Further, Yao's teams have historically been atop the league leaders in defensive efficiency; I'd have to do some digging (im not prepared to do) but I don't recall those hornets teams being defensive juggernauts. (I could be wrong here, I didn't ever watch the charlotte hornets!) So, to say Zo is "def" better is misleading; I would chalk them to being pretty similar. Both can anchor a d, that is for sure. Offensively though, Yao is "def" better, which overall, makes him the better player.
Yao has also played on much better defensive teams than Zo because Yao had much better defenders/coaches around him like you said. Yao def struggles vs the pick and roll, and although I might give the slight edge to Yao in 1 on 1 man post defense, that's the only part of D he is better at, Zo is better in the pick and roll and a better help defender as well.
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Old 05-12-2008, 04:51 PM   #1547
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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Offensively, in their primes I believe they are both pretty equal. Zo was more mobile and could do things with the ball from the top of the circle extended. He had a nice 18 footer and good speed to the hoop if you took the shot away.

Yao is better with his back to the basket, and free throw percentage is hugely in his favor which is definately a plus from the big man spot, and your number 1 player on the team.

Defensively however the staggering difference is in favor of zo. The man was a beast inside, not only will he stop his own man, but great in help side shot blocking, and all this without getting into much foul trouble in his prime. He not only averaged ~3 blocks per game but would change another 5-10 shots throughout a game, and scorers would specifically not drive to the bucket if he is in there.
going to just repeat myself here:

I am not a fan of defensive rating (assani is) but Yao actually has slightly better defensive ratings then Zo. Further, Yao's teams have historically been atop the league leaders in defensive efficiency; I'd have to do some digging (im not prepared to do) but I don't recall those hornets teams being defensive juggernauts. (I could be wrong here, I didn't ever watch the charlotte hornets!) So, to say Zo is "def" better at defense is misleading; I would chalk them to being pretty similar. Both can anchor a d, that is for sure. Offensively though, Yao is "def" better, which overall, makes him the better player.

just look at the season comparison here:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...rnal01&y2=1998

Where are you getting it that they are similar offensively? I don't see it. Using words as poetry is interesting, when you say things like and scorers would specifically not drive to the bucket if he is in there. (about Zo's defense) but why is this not the case with Yao? Keep in mind he was about half a foot taller then Zo! So shouldnt this be even more the case??
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Old 05-12-2008, 04:53 PM   #1548
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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Yao has also played on much better defensive teams than Zo because Yao had much better defenders/coaches around him like you said. Yao def struggles vs the pick and roll, and although I might give the slight edge to Yao in 1 on 1 man post defense, that's the only part of D he is better at, Zo is better in the pick and roll and a better help defender as well.
alright THIS is a good breakdown and i agree with you epi. i think you're right Yao has benefited from those positives much more then Zo (did he ever play with a perimeter defender as good as Battier?) and Yao has a more pronounced achilles heel on defense (although for the record, his 1 on 1 post defense is incredible since he's SO strong, people don't give him enough credit for his strength, but his legs are like trees).

I suppose I'll shut up now, it's hard to go wrong with Zo, but I wouldn't have picked him this high is all.
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Old 05-12-2008, 04:54 PM   #1549
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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(about Zo's defense) but why is this not the case with Yao? Keep in mind he was about half a foot taller then Zo! So shouldnt this be even more the case??
Height is very very misleading in basketball, especially once you reach over 7 feet, because the people who are over 7 feet can rarley jump high, or jump at all.

For example Yao is 7'5 or 7'6, but really constantly jumps only like 4 inches off the ground, if that. Zo was 6'11 and could jump a lot higher, say like 2 feet? (i'm just estimating). Regardless there is no doubt in my mind that Zo can get up higher than Yao can (in terms of jumping+height combined).

Add to that Zo being a lot quicker, so he can get to guards/fowards/even centers easier on help defense, and he is def a much better help defender than Yao.

I always thought that if Yao had the body of someone like Tyson Chandler (an athletic 7 footer) he would be a much better player than he is right now (and right now hes very very good).
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Old 05-12-2008, 05:09 PM   #1550
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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I always thought that if Yao had the body of someone like Tyson Chandler (an athletic 7 footer) he would be a much better player than he is right now (and right now hes very very good).

lol - thats like saying if Spudd Webb was taller he would have been able to block more shots.
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