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Old 08-15-2008, 12:29 AM   #15426
capone0
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion - Let's Get'er Done

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NEXT!
lets go
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Old 08-15-2008, 01:22 AM   #15427
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion - Let's Get'er Done

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lets go
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After Nicholasp27 (who is now skipped), it's Dr. Zoidberg, battschr, cowboy2579, and t0ne.
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Old 08-15-2008, 01:25 AM   #15428
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion - Let's Get'er Done

I've got a facemelter here people, lets get going!
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Old 08-15-2008, 11:35 PM   #15429
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion - Let's Get'er Done

Pick's up: Jon Barry. I have two Barrys. I wins!
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Old 08-15-2008, 11:49 PM   #15430
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion - Let's Get'er Done

Zoidberg's team is now unbeatable. No one can defeat two Barrys.
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Old 08-16-2008, 12:11 AM   #15431
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion - Let's Get'er Done

it doesn't work like that. Brent Mother****ing Barry shares genes with no man
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Old 08-16-2008, 12:42 AM   #15432
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion - Let's Get'er Done

Taking Rafer Alston.
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Old 08-16-2008, 12:57 AM   #15433
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion - Let's Get'er Done

ouch good pick with alston i was hoping i could get him.

Diop looks like a very mediocre pick, I dont know about a guy who cant beat out dampier for a starting job.
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Old 08-16-2008, 01:41 AM   #15434
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion - Let's Get'er Done

Damn, battschr's got the market cornered on "players mentioned in Clipse songs"
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Old 08-16-2008, 04:01 AM   #15435
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion - Let's Get'er Done

Someone asked me earlier why I thought the bj armstrong pick was bad, and it was because of rafer alston.

Compare the 2 side by side and alston is better at almost everything, even 3 point shooting. Although Armstrong gives you a better percentage from three, the most attempts he managed on a team with michael jordan was 250 compared with alston at 434. Alston shot 371. percent that year while bj shot 42. Its much harder and much more value to shoot 37 percent from 3 with almost 200 more attempts than the other.

We havent even begun to talk about defensively where alston is far more superior. Averages almost a half a steal more for his career.

The edge goes to bj in free throw shooting and turnovers, but bj never really got many assists, while alston handles the ball a lot and creates alot of oppurtunnities in a slow down houston offense. Free throw shooting for a point guard is not so important especially in our league where you are bound to have at least one 80% free throw shooter on the floor at all times in case of technical foul shots.

Rafer has already put together 5 years better performance than bj;s 4 ( primes ) and rafer is still going.

You could knock rafer on his field goal percentage, but half of his shots taken are 3 pointers where he shoots a solid percentage.
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Old 08-16-2008, 04:37 AM   #15436
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion - Let's Get'er Done

I'd love to be able to draft Rick Barry.

Meh, Alston to me is a mediocre player in this field and there are some other PGs who may be better, but it's almost moot, he fills a need. I'm just hoping my guy is still there for me!
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Old 08-16-2008, 05:40 AM   #15437
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion - Let's Get'er Done

Alston is a great pick IMO. I like the combo of van exel and alston @ PG since their games are pretty similar - that should be good for team chemistry.

I'll pick tomorrow since I'm drunkish now.

Assani: when we're all done w/ the draft, would it be a good idea to do overall team writeups before we vote on the top 16 - let everyone make their case individually in one thread and vote in another maybe? IDK

Last edited by cowboy2579; 08-16-2008 at 05:47 AM.
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Old 08-16-2008, 02:14 PM   #15438
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion - Let's Get'er Done

Round 9, Pick #346: G/F Morris Peterson


From Mo Pete I get a very competent offensive player who doesn't demand the ball much when better options are available, but knows how to hit open shots and drive when matchups demand it. His defense is average, so on my team he will be covering the weakest opposing swingman on the court.

Team so far:

Starting Lineup
PG - Gary Payton
SG - Nick Anderson
SF - Larry Johnson
PF - Rasheed Wallace
C - Tyson Chandler

Bench
SF/PF - Antoine Walker
PF/C - Antonio Davis
PG/SG - Randy Foye
SG/SF - Morris Peterson
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Old 08-16-2008, 02:42 PM   #15439
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion - Let's Get'er Done

mo pete very solid pick here.

Gives you 1 steal per game and good 3 point shooting and gets 4 attempts up per game. Nice spark off the bench.

He has shown to be effective on bad teams and good teams.

Gonna be nice to run payton, anderson, mo pete, sheed and chandler out there for a 3 point shootout.

Pick an roll with payton and chandler while everyone else spreads it out on the 3 point line. How do you defend that ?
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Old 08-16-2008, 02:43 PM   #15440
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion - Let's Get'er Done

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I'd love to be able to draft Rick Barry.
overrated, but probably in the same way that Pistol Pete was. Just a bit ahead of his time. No 3 ball hurts him statistically, didn't rebound particularly well, and turned it over like mad.

hmm.. just looked over his stats his TO% ain't bad really. It's just the poor shooting that kills him.
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Old 08-16-2008, 02:53 PM   #15441
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion - Let's Get'er Done

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Originally Posted by NopairParker View Post
Someone asked me earlier why I thought the bj armstrong pick was bad, and it was because of rafer alston.

Compare the 2 side by side and alston is better at almost everything, even 3 point shooting. Although Armstrong gives you a better percentage from three, the most attempts he managed on a team with michael jordan was 250 compared with alston at 434. Alston shot 371. percent that year while bj shot 42. Its much harder and much more value to shoot 37 percent from 3 with almost 200 more attempts than the other.

We havent even begun to talk about defensively where alston is far more superior. Averages almost a half a steal more for his career.

The edge goes to bj in free throw shooting and turnovers, but bj never really got many assists, while alston handles the ball a lot and creates alot of oppurtunnities in a slow down houston offense. Free throw shooting for a point guard is not so important especially in our league where you are bound to have at least one 80% free throw shooter on the floor at all times in case of technical foul shots.

Rafer has already put together 5 years better performance than bj;s 4 ( primes ) and rafer is still going.

You could knock rafer on his field goal percentage, but half of his shots taken are 3 pointers where he shoots a solid percentage.
BJ vs Rafer first 9 seasons each:

per game:
Code:
Rk  	Player  	From  	To  	G  	GS  	MP  	FG  	FGA  	FG%  	3P  	3PA  	3P%  	FT  	FTA  	FT%  	ORB  	DRB  	TRB  	AST  	STL  	BLK  	TOV  	PF  	PTS
1 	Rafer Alston 	2000 	2008 	542 	338 	28.6 	3.7 	9.5 	.386 	1.5 	4.3 	.357 	1.3 	1.8 	.725 	0.4 	2.5 	2.8 	4.8 	1.2 	0.2 	1.8 	2.2 	10.1
2 	B.J. Armstrong 	1990 	1998 	688 	322 	24.5 	4.0 	8.3 	.478 	0.6 	1.4 	.423 	1.7 	1.9 	.856 	0.3 	1.5 	1.8 	3.4 	0.7 	0.1 	1.2 	1.5 	10.2
per 36:

Code:
Rk  	Player  	From  	To  	G  	GS  	MP  	FG  	FGA  	FG%  	3P  	3PA  	3P%  	FT  	FTA  	FT%  	ORB  	DRB  	TRB  	AST  	STL  	BLK  	TOV  	PF  	PTS
1 	Rafer Alston 	2000 	2008 	542 	338 	15523 	4.6 	11.9 	.386 	1.9 	5.4 	.357 	1.6 	2.2 	.725 	0.5 	3.1 	3.6 	6.1 	1.5 	0.2 	2.2 	2.7 	12.7
2 	B.J. Armstrong 	1990 	1998 	688 	322 	16849 	5.8 	12.2 	.478 	0.9 	2.1 	.423 	2.4 	2.9 	.856 	0.4 	2.2 	2.6 	5.0 	1.1 	0.1 	1.8 	2.3 	15.0
advanced:
Code:
Rk  	Player  	From  	To  	G  	MP  	PER  	TS%  	eFG%  	ORB%  	DRB%  	TRB%  	AST%  	STL%  	BLK%  	TOV%  	Usg%  	ORtg  	DRtg  	OWS  	DWS  	WS
1 	Rafer Alston 	2000 	2008 	542 	15523 	13.6 	.494 	.467 	1.5 	9.9 	5.7 	28.1 	2.2 	0.4 	14.8 	19.4 	103 	105 	10.2 	17.5 	27.6
2 	B.J. Armstrong 	1990 	1998 	688 	16849 	14.7 	.557 	.514 	1.3 	7.3 	4.3 	20.6 	1.6 	0.2 	11.6 	18.5 	116 	110 	30.6 	12.5 	43.1
so Rafer has a small edge in rebounding, defense, and a decent edge in creating assists (though BJs assists went WAY up once he left Chicago, whereas Rafer's has gone down a good bit since getting to HOU.. hmm wonder if MJ and T-Mac have anything to do with that). Oh and drunk driving incidents. BJ has a HUGE edge offensively. More than makes up for what he gives up defensively.

Even if you disagree with that, calling BJ a "bad" pick is absurd.
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Old 08-16-2008, 04:35 PM   #15442
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion - Let's Get'er Done

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Originally Posted by kidcolin View Post
BJ vs Rafer first 9 seasons each:

per game:
Code:
Rk  	Player  	From  	To  	G  	GS  	MP  	FG  	FGA  	FG%  	3P  	3PA  	3P%  	FT  	FTA  	FT%  	ORB  	DRB  	TRB  	AST  	STL  	BLK  	TOV  	PF  	PTS
1 	Rafer Alston 	2000 	2008 	542 	338 	28.6 	3.7 	9.5 	.386 	1.5 	4.3 	.357 	1.3 	1.8 	.725 	0.4 	2.5 	2.8 	4.8 	1.2 	0.2 	1.8 	2.2 	10.1
2 	B.J. Armstrong 	1990 	1998 	688 	322 	24.5 	4.0 	8.3 	.478 	0.6 	1.4 	.423 	1.7 	1.9 	.856 	0.3 	1.5 	1.8 	3.4 	0.7 	0.1 	1.2 	1.5 	10.2
per 36:

Code:
Rk  	Player  	From  	To  	G  	GS  	MP  	FG  	FGA  	FG%  	3P  	3PA  	3P%  	FT  	FTA  	FT%  	ORB  	DRB  	TRB  	AST  	STL  	BLK  	TOV  	PF  	PTS
1 	Rafer Alston 	2000 	2008 	542 	338 	15523 	4.6 	11.9 	.386 	1.9 	5.4 	.357 	1.6 	2.2 	.725 	0.5 	3.1 	3.6 	6.1 	1.5 	0.2 	2.2 	2.7 	12.7
2 	B.J. Armstrong 	1990 	1998 	688 	322 	16849 	5.8 	12.2 	.478 	0.9 	2.1 	.423 	2.4 	2.9 	.856 	0.4 	2.2 	2.6 	5.0 	1.1 	0.1 	1.8 	2.3 	15.0
advanced:
Code:
Rk  	Player  	From  	To  	G  	MP  	PER  	TS%  	eFG%  	ORB%  	DRB%  	TRB%  	AST%  	STL%  	BLK%  	TOV%  	Usg%  	ORtg  	DRtg  	OWS  	DWS  	WS
1 	Rafer Alston 	2000 	2008 	542 	15523 	13.6 	.494 	.467 	1.5 	9.9 	5.7 	28.1 	2.2 	0.4 	14.8 	19.4 	103 	105 	10.2 	17.5 	27.6
2 	B.J. Armstrong 	1990 	1998 	688 	16849 	14.7 	.557 	.514 	1.3 	7.3 	4.3 	20.6 	1.6 	0.2 	11.6 	18.5 	116 	110 	30.6 	12.5 	43.1
so Rafer has a small edge in rebounding, defense, and a decent edge in creating assists (though BJs assists went WAY up once he left Chicago, whereas Rafer's has gone down a good bit since getting to HOU.. hmm wonder if MJ and T-Mac have anything to do with that). Oh and drunk driving incidents. BJ has a HUGE edge offensively. More than makes up for what he gives up defensively.

Even if you disagree with that, calling BJ a "bad" pick is absurd.

Ok I guess BJ wasnt a bad pick. Still worse than alston.

While you brought out all the favoring stats for yourself in this case, you forgot to note that bj had only 4 solid years if I rembmer correctly, while alston has already had 5 solid years and is still in his peak.

Your only argument here is field goal percentage, where bj has the edge.

Saying alston is only slightly better defender is not accurate.

I think your giving bj too much credit for being an "all star " whatever that means in the NBA. If the roles were flipped and rafer had the same all star appearance and bj didnt I think you would be rafer.
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Old 08-16-2008, 05:21 PM   #15443
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion - Let's Get'er Done

I don't give a damn about AS Games. And had only 4 solid years? Check again playa.

I think you're vastly overrating the defensive edge of Rafer. His defensive metrics look great in Houston, one of the best defensive teams of the past few years. Besides, it's the PG spot, usually the least important defensive position on the floor. Only in rare cases like Gary Payton and early Kidd does a PG's defense have a huge impact. I concede he's a better defender than BJ, but it doesn't make up for the huge offensive gap.

And BJ doesn't just have an edge in FG%. It's a HUGE efficiency edge. He's 8th all time from 3pt range, which was a major need on my team. He's got a 6% edge in TS% and a 5% edge in eFG%. And it's not like it's no big deal, Rafer takes a LOT of shots. Even when T-Mac and Yao Ming are playing, he's likely to get up 9 or 10 shots. He's been second in FGA these past 2 years in HOU. Obv Yao being hurt is a big part of that, but the gap between Rafer and the next non-Yao player is huge. We're talking an average of ~300 between the two years.

BJ also has the advantage with regard to health. Look at those stats above. Through the first 9 years, 146 more games than Rafer. BJ has the third longest consecutive games streak at 577.

The only ? is how much longer Rafer can keep up playing at this level. If he can keep up this same rate until he's 35, it might be close.
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Old 08-16-2008, 07:05 PM   #15444
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion - Let's Get'er Done

btw could a mod edit my kerr writeup into the draft thread, tia
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Old 08-17-2008, 12:05 PM   #15445
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion - Let's Get'er Done

I add another injury all star, Steve Stipanovich. Averaged 13 and 8 for his career, career PER of just over 15, closer to 16 if you only look at his post-23 years. Degenerative knee condition ended his career at 27, but he was extremely durable prior to that, and there is no guarantee that our league will play out like real life, medical advances, yada yada yada, you've heard it all by now. Anyways, just like my TMac/Ceballos rotation, with him and Bill Cartwright, I should have at least one solid center at all times. My team logo is definitely going to be a crutch though.
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Old 08-17-2008, 01:24 PM   #15446
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion - Let's Get'er Done

I'll be out of town without internet access Monday - Friday. Who can I PM my picks to (preferrably someone who picks after me so you don't poach my player)?
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Old 08-17-2008, 01:24 PM   #15447
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion - Let's Get'er Done

ill have my pick up soon.
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Old 08-18-2008, 02:46 PM   #15448
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion - Let's Get'er Done

Can I pick?
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Old 08-18-2008, 02:55 PM   #15449
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion - Let's Get'er Done

yes
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Old 08-18-2008, 03:17 PM   #15450
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion - Let's Get'er Done

drew gooden
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