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Old 07-11-2008, 03:40 PM   #15026
Jack of Arcades
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Seadood228 View Post
Come on man, his first two seasons he had PERs of 40.2 and 30.2, on .563 and .622 TS! So what if he played 48 minutes those years

Seriously, your point is a good one, but I think my team has pretty much been built to win more late with Laimbeer, Horny, Armstrong, and Elden playing well into their late 30's. And no real injury problems (car accident excluded) on the rest of my team.
It works for you because your team has a pretty big window. Mine is more of a win now mode type deal...
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Old 07-11-2008, 04:18 PM   #15027
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

God, all of my PF/Cs keep getting taken.

This bodes poorly for my team
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Old 07-11-2008, 04:47 PM   #15028
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I just got a PM from BiiiigChips saying that I'm up in the draft
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Old 07-11-2008, 04:55 PM   #15029
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

IF Mugsy is in the game, I play Penny at PG and post up all freakin day.
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Old 07-11-2008, 04:56 PM   #15030
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Just read on wiki that in 2005, Armstrong was fined $1000 by the Mavs for grabbing the PA mic before a game in dallas and saying "how bout those redskins" b/c the skins beat the cowboys 35-7 earlier in the day.

I already loved Armstrong b/c I grew up a magic fan and remember his first season. He was like the 12th man scrub but came in late one game and had this crazy dunk that I swear was a 540. But the fact that he taunted cowboys fans makes me love him more b/c there is no team I hate more than Dallas.

D
I remember this....so awesome.
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Old 07-11-2008, 05:12 PM   #15031
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

the dunk or the Dallas thing? Please say the dunk because as I get older I'm starting to think it was a figment of my teenage mind.

D
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Old 07-11-2008, 05:21 PM   #15032
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

loved the DA, Perfect bench player. A Leaper/Defender/Passer and a great team mate, I mean who doesnt love Darrell Armstrong ?
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Old 07-11-2008, 05:25 PM   #15033
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Damn, I was looking at Muggsy as a backup. Ah, well... I probably wasn't taking him this round, so I probably wasn't getting him anyway.
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Old 07-11-2008, 05:49 PM   #15034
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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IF Mugsy is in the game, I play Penny at PG and post up all freakin day.
yea b/c every pick in the 8th round is going to have its flaws, thats why he lasted to the 8th round
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Old 07-11-2008, 05:53 PM   #15035
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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IF Mugsy is in the game, I play Penny at PG and post up all freakin day.
Good luck playing Penny at PG when he's nursing an injury. It's not like I have to worry about anyone on your team scoring other than Duncan or Penny anyway, especially if you've taken Derek Harper out the game.
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Old 07-11-2008, 08:32 PM   #15036
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Round 8, Pick 290: Scott Skiles



Continuing the run at PG, I'm taking another white guy to run my offense (hopefully that won't create disfunction). On a team with more scorers than distributors, I need an unselfish player who can spread the ball and score efficiently when necesary without requiring a lot of shots. While Skiles did not have a long career, here's what he put up in the 7 seasons from the age of 24 to 30:

29.6 MP/ 12 PPG/ 6.9 APG/ .381 3P%/ .892 FT%/ and a very good .558 TS%, in playing at least 70 games each year.

He also dished out 30 assists against Denver in 1990 to set the single game record. Not worried about his defense as I already have Hinrich and it's not that important of a position anyway.

Team so far:

Kobe Bryant - SG
Al Jefferson - PF
Rashard Lewis - SF
Samuel Dalembert - C
Kirk Hinrich - PG
Herb Williams - C/PF
Cuttino Mobley - SG
Skott Skiles - PG
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Old 07-11-2008, 08:36 PM   #15037
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I thoroughly enjoyed the Ricky Davis era in Boston
KC= Bill Simmons?
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Old 07-11-2008, 08:52 PM   #15038
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Shark PMed me his pick - he wants PF Frank Brickowski



I imagine he's going to do a full writeup later, but I'm on the clock now!
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Old 07-11-2008, 09:01 PM   #15039
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Alright, **** it, I have a ton of guys I want, and this one I just can't understand how he's slipped so much. He's too much value to miss out on. Full writeup coming soon. Micheal Williams

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Old 07-11-2008, 09:42 PM   #15040
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Please edit this into the main thread:

Round #8/ Pick 292 via LurchySoprano Micheal Williams



Micheal (NOT "Michael") Douglas Williams had very little fanfare; no nickname; and few accomplishments. He had several flaws (which I'll get to) and was not a "winner" either in college or in the NBA. (16 career playoff games, never made it to round 2) He was a very underappreciated player though who should be able to succeed on my team, especially in the role I foresee for him. Let's knock that out first: I have a ton of smalls on my team. There will NOT be many minutes for Micheal. His SOLE task is to relieve Terrell when necessary. I'm going to do what I've done with Micheal that I've done with everyone else: List accomplishments, show stats, and explain his role.

Team BobboFitos
PG - Terrell Brandon (5'11), Micheal Williams (6'2)
SG - Andrew Toney (6'3), Danny Ainge (6'4), Eddie Jones (6'6)
SF - Bryon Russell (6'7)
PF - Derrick Coleman (6'10), Nene (6'11)
C - Shaquille O'Neal (7'1)

Quick note, EJ will be getting ~20 of his nightly ~33mpg @ the 3, with Bryon soaking up ~26mpg @ that spot. (The leftover minute or so is in the rare spot I use a very small lineup to close out the game) Terrell will likely go for ~35mpg, with Micheal getting ~10mpg in the backup role, and a few leftover minutes goto either Danny or Toney in the oddball lineup. Finally, Danny and Toney will likely play just under 20mpg each. Shaq and DC will get close to 34mpg (pf trouble notwithstanding) with Nene the first big off the bench getting about 22mpg; this means my last guy will get about 6mpg or so, give or take. (He has not been selected yet, though, obviously!)

Back to Micheal - he was a 6'2/175lbs. PG from Baylor University. Micheal played 10 yeas in the NBA (age 22-32) with several teams, including the Detroit Pistons, the Phoenix Suns, the Charlotte Hornets (that was his rookie/soph year where he didn't play very much, plus we're removing those years, so that's nearly irrelevant). He played his peak with the Indiana Pacers, and finished his career with the Minnesota Timberwolves. (Played 2 games as a 32 yr old w/ the Toronto Raptors) The biggest knock on Micheal - much like Toney - was that Micheal's career was shorter then it appears due to injuries. Micheal's lone accomplishment was making the All-Defensive 2nd team in 1991-92 as a 25 yr old.

Micheal missed many games his first 2 years (22/23) due to CNP: CD quite a bit. (in fact, he collectively played 77 games those 2 years, but we wipe them clean) PER-wise, though, he really picked it up when he's finally eligible for OUR league: 19.5 as a 24yr old, then 18.4, 19.0, 18.0. His career PER is 17.9. Again, I'd like to note he got injured as a 28 yr old (I'm not sure WHAT sorts of injuries) and played only 37 games thereafter. Micheal didn't build his PER up with bulk shooting either: He's a 20.3 usage player who puts up a .573 TS mark (from the PG position!) despite rarely shooting 3s. (And not shooting 3s well, I should add) As a 24 yr old, in 73 games he put up a .608 TS mark - he does not suffer from the disease of a SJaxx or TMac - he takes quality shots.

Defensive metrics are weird. On one hand, he put up a career 109 DRtg, which is below-average, even from a PG slot. However, he DID make an all-defensive team, further, he was not a foulbox at all (only 3.7 per 36 pfpg) and forced MANY TOs, getting 2.5 per 36mins. (3.4 STL%, which is VERY good, peaking @ 4.2 and 4.1 as a 24/25 yr old) Offensively, he put up a career 113 ORtg, which is great, and further cements his "high bball IQ/efficiency mark". He is a career positive WSAA guy as well, fwiw.

I do want to further stress here Micheal, when eligible for us, played in 73, 79, 76, then 71 games, from the age of 24-27, so I get him for his full peak, which is pretty nice and important.

Defensively, I've already noted Micheal is a guy who forces many TOs and was a known "positive" defender guy. He's not undersized, so will not suffer from the mismatch that Terrell MAY (since he has 3 inches on Terrell) And I'm also excited at bringing him off the bench to push the pace (perhaps a 2-PG set where I just run run run)

Offensively, as already noted, Micheal is a high-efficiency guy. Highlighting some of his other big plusses: Micheal gets to the line. Not only does he get to the line, he DOES NOT MISS. Keying on this, he gets to the line 6.2 times per 36 mins (fantastic for a small) and connects on 86.8%. (In fact, he holds the record for most makes in a row) If you remove his rookie and sophomore years 9where he missed 16 and 10 FTs for whatever reason) he is 1478 for 1687, or an 88% FT shooter. This will enable me to put him on the floor in crunch time so that I can have Terrell, Danny, Micheal, Toney, and EJ, and "boom" everyone will make their FTs! Also, since he's a PG, it would be silly of me to brush over his passing: He is a career 34.3% AST%, which is above average, resulting in 8.3 apg per 36.

Going back to my overall philosophy (balance) I think Micheal at this spot offers me an incredibly efficient offensive threat off the bench, a guy that can back up Terrell with ease, who also can hold his own on the defensive end. I just thought he was far too good to pass up, even if I plan on using him only for 10 mpg.
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Old 07-11-2008, 09:58 PM   #15041
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Skiles pick is nice

Brick OK I guess. Don't really know a ton about him. Probably better options available.

Meh on Micheal. He's solid and all, but his name sucks. He gets 4 years in this format. Backup PG isn't a pressing need for Bobbo. Size is. Sure he's got Shaq (who I'll even give the benefit of the doubt that he'll show up to game 1 in shape), but he's got two injury prone PFs and no real backup at center. But yet he has Terrell Brandon, Danny Ainge, Eddie Jones, Andrew Toney, AND Micheal Williams?

Not good imo.
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Old 07-11-2008, 10:03 PM   #15042
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Skiles pick is nice

Brick OK I guess. Don't really know a ton about him. Probably better options available.

Meh on Micheal. He's solid and all, but his name sucks. He gets 4 years in this format. Backup PG isn't a pressing need for Bobbo. Size is. Sure he's got Shaq (who I'll even give the benefit of the doubt that he'll show up to game 1 in shape), but he's got two injury prone PFs and no real backup at center. But yet he has Terrell Brandon, Danny Ainge, Eddie Jones, Andrew Toney, AND Micheal Williams?

Not good imo.
My last pick will be size. My backup PG will get more mins then my 4th big, so thats why I figured I would draft talent over availability.

I have a few injury concerns, but I'm not sure I understand why you highlighted some of my guys who do NOT have injury concerns (Eddie Jones and Danny Ainge have a VERY clean bill of health)

Basically, I think a few of my guys will miss some regular season games with nagging injuries (all my bigs) but my team can deal with a few bumps.

Oh, I'm hiring the Suns medical staff btw.
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Old 07-11-2008, 10:09 PM   #15043
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

because i was talking specifically about your big men. That Eddie and Ainge hardly miss any games is part of my point. Micheal most def won't be getting more minutes than your "4th" big. Because it's not really just a 4th big. Some guys play both positions well, but not all. Nene I guess kinda does. Coleman is purely a 4. How many great teams have one "big" backup, especially one that's not even a true C?

Big men are a rare commodity just based on genetics. Backup 10mpg PGs are a dime a dozen, and you already had a capable backup point in Ainge in case the well really went dry.
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Old 07-11-2008, 10:11 PM   #15044
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by D104 View Post
the dunk or the Dallas thing? Please say the dunk because as I get older I'm starting to think it was a figment of my teenage mind.

D
sorry, the Dallas thing. Don't remember the dunk.
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Old 07-11-2008, 10:17 PM   #15045
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Also, there has been a mini run of backup PGs. KC, where do you rank them all in talent?

For the record, it has been:
Muggsy Bogues
Darrell Armstrong
Scott Skiles
-----
Micheal Williams

In my personal rankings, I had them Micheal, Darrell, Muggsy, then Scott. However, I understand the other 3 had far less injury concerns then Micheal. BBall ref says:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...lesc01&y4=1996

Games-wise, Micheal has about half the sample of Darrell and Muggsy, with Scott in-between. Per game, they share similar career mins with Muggsy leading (28.6) and Darrell behind (23.7) but nothing that sticks out. To put them on even footing, comparing their per 36 mins, FGA-wise (or, usage) Darrell, Scott, and Micheal are identical. Muggsy shoots a LOT less often. For whatever reason Darrell takes a ton of slightly below-average 3pters (5 a game @ 33.4%) and Scott is the only good 3pt shooter, @ 3 per game/37.9%. Muggsy and Micheal literally never shoot 3s. Micheal draws a TON of fouls - 6.2 per 36 (WOW) vs 3.7 (Scott) 3.0 (Darrell) and 1.8 (Muggsy). They're all very good FT shooters, with Muggsy the worst @ 82.7%. None of them are good rebounders, but Darrell has the smallest edge there (4.1 per game, or about 1% more TRB%). Passing wise, Muggsy has the clear edge, and Darrell is the clear weakspot (9.5, then 8.3/8.3, 6.1). AST% shows this obviously, with Muggsy nearly 10% better than Darrell. Micheal is the best @ forcing TOs, with more then a SPG more then Scott, and more then .5 more a game then the other 2. TOs are pretty even except for Muggsy who only turned the ball over 2 times a game per 36. Fouls are irrelevant, since they're all playing backup mins. (And no one fouls alot) Micheal is the best scorer here.

Advanced stats, Micheal "wins" the PER race, with a 17.9 vs 16.3 vs 15 vs 14.4 (Micheal, Darrell, Muggsy, Scott). Efficiency again goes to Micheal, although Scott Skiles is above average here, Darrell is about average, and Muggsy hurting you a bit (although he never shoots, so he doesn't hurt you MUCH). Muggsy and Micheal share the same ORtg, but it looks like all 3 help in this department, whereas DRtg Darrell is the best defender, with Scott Skiles well behind the other 3. (Muggsy is about even with Micheal)

All in all, I think they're similar, it's funny they were all drafted within 5 picks of each other, but I'm happy with my guy.
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Old 07-11-2008, 10:20 PM   #15046
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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because i was talking specifically about your big men. That Eddie and Ainge hardly miss any games is part of my point. Micheal most def won't be getting more minutes than your "4th" big. Because it's not really just a 4th big. Some guys play both positions well, but not all. Nene I guess kinda does. Coleman is purely a 4. How many great teams have one "big" backup, especially one that's not even a true C?

Big men are a rare commodity just based on genetics. Backup 10mpg PGs are a dime a dozen, and you already had a capable backup point in Ainge in case the well really went dry.
I really wanted to go 12-deep, but I'm in the minority here. Anyway, I have a list of about 5 backup Cs I'll be happy with, so hopefully my last pick will convince you I'll field a team that can take on an injury or two.

BTW, Assani, I'm going to play bball with KBFC (He just drove to my house) a bunch of us are going, you shoudl meet us there (yes, I still have no phone)
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Old 07-11-2008, 10:33 PM   #15047
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I don't think it was really a coincidence they all went within a few picks of each other. Backup PG is a pretty low priority position and none of them can play multiple positions, limiting their usefulness.

I kind of wanted Micheal (ugggh, the name is so bad) but I didn't pick him for a similar reason as DA: timeline concerns.
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Old 07-12-2008, 12:08 AM   #15048
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Bobbo just got revenge on me for Gatling, he scooped up Williams right before I was going to. Anyway, I'm taking johnny Newman because I need a backup SG/SF because HSP wasted a pick on lame ass Jim Jackson.

D
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Old 07-12-2008, 12:22 AM   #15049
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I was going to start Williams for the first 4 years over Starbury.

D
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Old 07-12-2008, 12:52 AM   #15050
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Bobbo just got revenge on me for Gatling, he scooped up Williams right before I was going to. Anyway, I'm taking johnny Newman because I need a backup SG/SF because HSP wasted a pick on lame ass Jim Jackson.

D
WOOOOO

btw, newman looks really, really vanilla. What am I missing?* Also, can anyone else comment on ranking those backup PGs?

*The one thing it looks like he does is get to the line alot, and has a good stroke, but that's about it.
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