Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Sporting Events Discussion centered around sporting events.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-07-2008, 11:29 AM   #14826
ClarkNasty
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
ClarkNasty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: 10x the man Clarkmeister is
Posts: 35,385
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

BTW, Donyell Marshall is an absolutely awesome pick.
ClarkNasty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 11:38 AM   #14827
capone0
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
capone0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Philly
Posts: 43,034
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I think Donyell would have gone much higher if he wasn't so inconsistant. With Golden State his TS% was in the 47% range, when in Tor and Utah, it was in the 55-59% range. Defensively, his #s were all over the place as well. He's a solid rebounder and decent passer and pretty solid value at this point.
capone0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 11:40 AM   #14828
ClarkNasty
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
ClarkNasty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: 10x the man Clarkmeister is
Posts: 35,385
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Defensively, his #s were all over the place as well.
I'm willing to accept that this is because most defensive numbers are very flawed and basically suck.
ClarkNasty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 11:40 AM   #14829
ClarkNasty
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
ClarkNasty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: 10x the man Clarkmeister is
Posts: 35,385
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

As in, he didn't randomly go from suck to awesome year to year. Dude was a pretty good defender.
ClarkNasty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 11:42 AM   #14830
NopairParker
old hand
 
NopairParker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Little Armenia
Posts: 1,386
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarkNasty View Post
I'm willing to accept that this is because most defensive numbers are very flawed and basically suck.
Along with a lot of other stats.

Defensive stats are the most tho
NopairParker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 11:47 AM   #14831
kidcolin
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
kidcolin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: thank god for the hatchery
Posts: 108,763
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

his D #s aren't all over the place, really. They were just bad in GS and dramatically improved the second he left, just like the TS%. Those GS teams were amongst the very worst in the league defensively. Look at the '97 team.. not a DRtg lower than 109 (Donyell). His first solid DRtg score of 104 was on the 20th worst defense, and then his great 98 score was when GS turned it around defensively (10th in defensive efficiency). DRtg is extremely team oriented and you need to compare individual DRtgs to the team to get a better idea of where he's at. Tim Duncan wouldn't be posting 94s on the '97 Warriors, all else being equal.

That team was poison. I'm sure some of his #s improving was a result of just betting better, but I think a lot had to do with getting the F out of dodge.

Just taking a quick scan, Donyell's DRtg was never more than his team's. When he had a 105 in Toronto, they were 24th in the league with 108.7.

Dude rules.
kidcolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 01:55 PM   #14832
van_exel_fan
grinder
 
van_exel_fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: witness protection
Posts: 539
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seadood228 View Post
Ok now that Bobbo has finished his writeup (which was vv good), I'll comment more on Nene.

His weight - This was only an issue at the beginning of 2006/7. After blowing out his knee the previous season, he came in at ~280lbs, which was 15-20 lbs over his normal weight. He was back at 265 by the middle of November, and actually got as low as 245 over the course of the season. Towards the end he was getting pushed around by larger centers, and made it a point to come in heavier the next season. When he showed up at 265 the next year, people thought he was overweight, which wasn't the case. So his weight isn't nearly the issue that people make it out to be.

His defense - Perhaps I shouldn't metrics that compare him to TD and KG, because it wasn't my intention to say that he's on that level. But he's definitely an excellent defender, particularly in the post. The numbers are there, and from what I've seen I agree. Check out the job he did on Timmay in the playoffs last year. My favorite sequences start around 2:40. Notice how he doesn't over commit, very Duncan-esque.

His offense - Here's where I really think he's good. Simply put, I can't think of any other big man who plays as well as he does off the ball, perhaps Tyson Chandler. He's the perfect teammate, because he's great at setting picks and finding space when his man leaves him. Sure he'll never be considered an elite player with those types of skills, but then again we aren't talking about a first option. As a 3rd option or lower, he's perfect because all he does is make his teammates better. Here's a video that shows what I'm trying to explain. Notice how he moves off the ball, when his man leaves, he puts himself in a position to get an easy bucket. Also notice how effective Nene is after setting picks, and how quickly he gets to the rim coming off of them. If you can find someone who does this better let me know. I can think of a few, but not many and none drafted in the last three rounds. All this and he's one of the few current guys in the NBA with a low post game--he's not strictly a garbage man like so many defensive big men taken recently.

Bobbo mentioned his breakout season (@23), but that's only half the story. Nene was fat for the first part of that year, and improved as the season wore on. This is evidenced by his post-ASB numbers, where he put up 16PP/36 (14PPG) on 70% TS!

Nene fits PERFECTLY with Bobbo's team because he's got great passing bigs and great PnR guards. Shaq/Nene is just going to be murder down low, and DC/Nene will be no picnic either. Nene's power and off-ball skills will make it a very easy bucket if defenders double off him, which will make scoring quite a bit easier. I know Bobbo wanted Chris Gatling, but Nene's skillset is much better suited to his team. Chris was more of a creator and tended to play on his own. Nene is the type of player that needs and uses his teammates to put himself in high percentage situations, and Bobbo's team is just the type to do that.

Here's another vid from the DEN/SA playoff series, check out the D.

More Nene defense. Now this is how you defend a pick and roll.
Yo don't give Bobbo the championship just yet. Your post is FILLED with logical fallacies. You are overrating this guy to an obscene degree.




















He's not really even that good on his current team, let alone a team built of the best players from the last 30 years...
van_exel_fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 01:57 PM   #14833
van_exel_fan
grinder
 
van_exel_fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: witness protection
Posts: 539
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by kidcolin View Post
oh hear we go
Buddy, you go to college?
van_exel_fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 02:18 PM   #14834
van_exel_fan
grinder
 
van_exel_fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: witness protection
Posts: 539
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by xorbie View Post
I've been waiting for Mo Williams to go for the last 3 rounds now. So underrated.
I actually don't think that you are leveling...
van_exel_fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 02:20 PM   #14835
van_exel_fan
grinder
 
van_exel_fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: witness protection
Posts: 539
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

(whoops)

Last edited by van_exel_fan; 07-07-2008 at 02:21 PM. Reason: bad post (methinks)
van_exel_fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 02:29 PM   #14836
van_exel_fan
grinder
 
van_exel_fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: witness protection
Posts: 539
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Clark, sorry, drinking fwiw...just trying to get into a debate......
van_exel_fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 02:57 PM   #14837
van_exel_fan
grinder
 
van_exel_fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: witness protection
Posts: 539
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Nobody here?
van_exel_fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 03:58 PM   #14838
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by NopairParker View Post
I love the robert horry pick, I kknew he was going to be taken anytime now.

He brings a lot more to the table then his stats show.

The young pick is questionable, but I guess he does show potential or what not. Was there some kind of fear that someone else was going to draft him ? couldnt you wait till 10th round to get him.


By the way I have what you guys like to call " facemelter " In store, but am not sure when to select him. Im not quite sure if hes in anyones radar or not.
I have no clue about where others would've taken him, but since I feel as if he should've gone a while ago I didn't want to risk it.
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 04:25 PM   #14839
Dudd
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Dudd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: pm karak w/ ffb questions
Posts: 54,252
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by NopairParker View Post
By the way I have what you guys like to call " facemelter " In store, but am not sure when to select him. Im not quite sure if hes in anyones radar or not.
Don't worry, we'll let you know when we've skipped you.
Dudd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 04:27 PM   #14840
nath
the second coming of the second coming
 
nath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Rust and Marty, a hundred years
Posts: 67,703
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I'm debating between two guys for my next pick, so if one of them goes I'll be able to have a pick up very quickly

If both of them go I might slit my wrists
nath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 04:35 PM   #14841
kidcolin
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
kidcolin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: thank god for the hatchery
Posts: 108,763
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

horizon never posted Horry in the main thread. I just PMed FaDi. Hopefully he's got internet in his jail bait infested apartment in Thailand.
kidcolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 04:36 PM   #14842
KLJ
20k hands/day
 
KLJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Topeka
Posts: 5,701
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

at this point, its extremely unlikely either get taken
KLJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 05:06 PM   #14843
Omar Comin
fantasy failure
 
Omar Comin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: hold on we're going home
Posts: 27,358
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by kidcolin View Post
horizon never posted Horry in the main thread. I just PMed FaDi. Hopefully he's got internet in his jail bait infested apartment in Thailand.
wat

let me go look at random lists on basketball reference
Omar Comin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 05:13 PM   #14844
Dudd
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Dudd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: pm karak w/ ffb questions
Posts: 54,252
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

In Thailand, there is no jailbait, amiright?
Dudd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 05:21 PM   #14845
BobboFitos
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
BobboFitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 72,764
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Fadi, michael adams has already been drafted
BobboFitos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 05:23 PM   #14846
Shark Doctor
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Shark Doctor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: GTA
Posts: 11,739
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobboFitos View Post
Fadi, michael adams has already been drafted
LOL - this.
Shark Doctor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 05:25 PM   #14847
MEb
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
MEb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 24,705
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I deleted Fadi's pick for him, hope he sees he needs to repick.
MEb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 05:27 PM   #14848
capone0
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
capone0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Philly
Posts: 43,034
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

i kinda want to read what he said about the guy i just drafted ^^.
capone0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 05:31 PM   #14849
Cancuk
veteran
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Keeping it real
Posts: 2,062
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Of course i've said stuff wrong, however i'm not wrong nearly as much as most of the people in this thread. Also, I am def smarter than most of the people in this thread as well. I also probably have more money that I earned off poker (obv not a trustfund baby) than almost everyone posting in this thread as well.

Infact if you guys were in my position, you'd probably be bragging way more than I do.

/end brag
This is the most outrageously douchey thing i've ever read. Wow.
Cancuk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 05:42 PM   #14850
D104
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
D104's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In a better place.
Posts: 18,272
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Is this like a Elway thing where if Adams doesnt want to play for Capone's team, then fadi gets him?

D
D104 is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:32 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive