Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Sporting Events Discussion centered around sporting events.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-06-2008, 10:19 PM   #14801
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarkNasty View Post
I don't think you understand the meaning of "worst case". I mean, his floor is really 55% TS%? Really? GMAFB.
As a 19 year old he put up 57.0% TS. Why exactly do you think he'd get worse?
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2008, 10:19 PM   #14802
ClarkNasty
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
ClarkNasty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: 10x the man Clarkmeister is
Posts: 35,388
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by MEbenhoe View Post
oh cmon now, I agree the pick was bad but thats hyperbole at its finest.
I mean, how many people have been drafted from his class? 4 I think.

He's a dog to be better than at least 6 undrafted players imo, and in a dead heat with another 5 or so.
ClarkNasty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2008, 10:20 PM   #14803
ClarkNasty
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
ClarkNasty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: 10x the man Clarkmeister is
Posts: 35,388
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
As a 19 year old he put up 57.0% TS. Why exactly do you think he'd get worse?
You know why. I don't need to explain it. You're a smart dude.
ClarkNasty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2008, 10:28 PM   #14804
kidcolin
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
kidcolin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: thank god for the hatchery
Posts: 108,763
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarkNasty View Post
I mean, how many people have been drafted from his class? 4 I think.

He's a dog to be better than at least 6 undrafted players imo, and in a dead heat with another 5 or so.
OK I def don't agree with this. There's one guy I like a lot more and one or two others that I currently think Thad has the edge on but wouldn't be shocked if they surpassed him.

I also think there's a couple guys who entered the league recently that are already better than Thad AND have higher ceilings.

edit: oh, read words that weren't there. You said nothing about from his draft. Then yeah I agree with you.
kidcolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2008, 10:59 PM   #14805
KLJ
20k hands/day
 
KLJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Topeka
Posts: 5,701
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

i feel the need to note that i dont think assani's team would be able to score more than 70 ppg in this league. lukewarm on the thad young pick, certainly not as down on him as everyone else
KLJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2008, 11:03 PM   #14806
snowden
veteran
 
snowden's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,527
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
As a 19 year old he put up 57.0% TS. Why exactly do you think he'd get worse?

the fact that he had a TS% of 55 in college makes me a bit wary as it's pretty rare that players come in and shoot better in the pros than they do in college, so I think he could easily settle in as a 53%TS guy.
snowden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2008, 11:14 PM   #14807
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by snowden719 View Post
the fact that he had a TS% of 55 in college makes me a bit wary as it's pretty rare that players come in and shoot better in the pros than they do in college, so I think he could easily settle in as a 53%TS guy.
From DraftExpress:


Quote:
What’s odd about Young’s situation at Georgia Tech is that he couldn’t be doing a better job exposing his weaknesses if he tried. Young entered college with the mindset that, barring the age limit, he would have entered the draft already, and therefore decided in advance to spend this year polishing up his perimeter game before claiming his spot in the NBA.

With that in mind, Young decided to go to Georgia Tech, largely on the premise/promise that Paul Hewitt would play him exclusively at the small forward position. That promise has been 100% fulfilled, even though it is clearly not in the Yellow Jackets’ best interest. The problem is scouts and opponents found out almost immediately that there isn’t much of a perimeter game to polish right now, and Young hasn’t left any doubt about that throughout his freshman season, with his insistence on camping out on the perimeter.

For the most part, Young’s desire to play on the perimeter, and abandoning his biggest strengths his size, length, raw strength, hands, touch, and explosive leaping ability, has exposed every deficiency in his game in terms of the next level. Georgia Tech’s fairly slow tempo doesn’t help him out much either, as he is clearly a guy that would thrive playing power forward on an up-tempo team like Arizona.

Advanced statistics taken from breaking down almost all of Georgia Tech’s games show that only 7.8% of Young’s offense comes from the post, compared with over 35% from spot-up shots and over 17% on isolation situations. All too often, Young is uninvolved in Georgia Tech’s offense, as he’s caught hanging out on the perimeter, waiting for others to create spot-up shots for him. This contributes to making the Yellow Jackets’ half-court sets look painfully stagnant and unimaginative. Of course, Javaris Crittenton’s insistence on dribbling the ball for 25 seconds or more on any given offensive possession certainly doesn’t help matters either.

Young is, however, a solid shooter with his feet set, as evidenced by the 39% he is averaging from behind the arc so far this season. He needs time to get his shot off though, due to his fairly slow, deliberate release, which includes too much wasted motion. When forced to shoot the ball quicker than he’d usually prefer, his percentages drop. This is particularly noticeable when shooting on the move or off the dribble, as Young has a tendency to let his body flail out as he’s setting himself up for a quick shot, which stops him from maintaining a consistent release point. This, combined with his poor ball-handling skills, is the main reason why Young does not have any real mid-range, pull-up game to speak of.

It sounds to me like Young didn't want to go to college but had to due to the one year rule, and he tried to focus on his weak points while at college in order to prepare himself for the NBA instead of dominating inside. Some may call that selfish in that he didn't do what was best for the team, and I won't necessarily disagree. BUt I"m just pointing out that this is a potential reason for his low efficiency.
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2008, 11:18 PM   #14808
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by KLJ View Post
i feel the need to note that i dont think assani's team would be able to score more than 70 ppg in this league. lukewarm on the thad young pick, certainly not as down on him as everyone else
Wow, I really don't get this line of thought. Duncan and Penny are offensive studs....seriously, when Penny is healthy(which I admit isn't all that often) I have as good of a one two combo on offense as anyone in this league.

I think you're really underrating my offense because I don't have the "he can score 50 on any given night" type of player(although Penny actually can do that, but didn't when Shaq was in town). Plus I get the feeling you're way underrating McCray and Harper on offense.

This isn't to mention that all of my players are extremely good passers, which is only going to help even more.

Last edited by Assani Fisher; 07-06-2008 at 11:23 PM.
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2008, 11:31 PM   #14809
KLJ
20k hands/day
 
KLJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Topeka
Posts: 5,701
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
Wow, I really don't get this line of thought. Duncan and Penny are offensive studs....seriously, when Penny is healthy(which I admit isn't all that often) I have as good of a one two combo on offense as anyone in this league.

I think you're really underrating my offense because I don't have the "he can score 50 on any given night" type of player(although Penny actually can do that, but didn't when Shaq was in town). Plus I get the feeling you're way underrating McCray and Harper on offense.
i just think that it's bad to say that 20ppg in the NBA will be even close to 20 ppg in this league, given that wing defense is so abundant, and post defense (to a lesser extent) is as well. now that i add it up, i think duncan/harper/penny would combine for somewhere around 50 ppg depending on minutes, and that 75-80 ppg (instead of 70) would be the upper limit.

this is why i dont like picking a ton of low ppg players who i believe were efficient "scorers" only because they were the 4th option, saw a crap defender, and fed off of their teammates. there are very few crap starting defenders in this league (in comparison to the real NBA). sort of in conclusion, i would much prefer a 20 ppg/53 TS% 4th option than a 10 ppg/60 TS% 4th option, because i'm pretty confident that the former would have both a higher ppg and ts% than the latter.

imo, of course.

and rodney mccray is a <12 ppg scorer over his career, tough to underrate his scoring i think. never seen him play though
KLJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2008, 11:40 PM   #14810
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

KLJ,


You're factoring in the fact that they are playing against better defensive players on average.

You're not factoring in the fact that they are playing with better teamates in this league, and in particular my team is stocked full of good passers.
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2008, 11:41 PM   #14811
KLJ
20k hands/day
 
KLJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Topeka
Posts: 5,701
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

i also dont know why you used this picture:


for this guy:


but i must have missed that. and yes, i had to pick a picture of him with the kings, ldo
KLJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2008, 11:44 PM   #14812
MEb
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
MEb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 24,705
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarkNasty View Post
I mean, how many people have been drafted from his class? 4 I think.

He's a dog to be better than at least 6 undrafted players imo, and in a dead heat with another 5 or so.
PM me please so I can argue with you that you're crazy
MEb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2008, 11:48 PM   #14813
KLJ
20k hands/day
 
KLJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Topeka
Posts: 5,701
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
KLJ,

You're factoring in the fact that they are playing against better defensive players on average.

You're not factoring in the fact that they are playing with better teamates in this league, and in particular my team is stocked full of good passers.
i have to think about this, but my initial reaction is that the improved defense factor matters a lot more when considering how efficient these players will be. too many variables for me to wrap my head around, i might have some sort of counter argument later
KLJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2008, 11:49 PM   #14814
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

post retirement picture ldo
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 12:12 AM   #14815
kidcolin
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
kidcolin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: thank god for the hatchery
Posts: 108,763
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
this is why i dont like picking a ton of low ppg players who i believe were efficient "scorers" only because they were the 4th option,
this is a good point. There have been a few guys picked who were low minutes, low usage guys. I don't think it automatically translates.

I mean, we're in the 7th round so I guess I don't hate the pick as much as I originally did. Seadood is right and I hardly think this "hurts" his squad. I just think there are obv better choices, a couple even using Assani's young studs who will be picked higher in 3 years methodology.
kidcolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 12:18 AM   #14816
KLJ
20k hands/day
 
KLJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Topeka
Posts: 5,701
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
KLJ,


You're factoring in the fact that they are playing against better defensive players on average.

You're not factoring in the fact that they are playing with better teamates in this league, and in particular my team is stocked full of good passers.
after a shower, i have a good one:

compare/contrast the difference between the NBA and the NCAA with the difference between the NBA and our magic league (in terms of defense, or "better teammates" or better passers, or overall, or whatever)

Last edited by KLJ; 07-07-2008 at 12:24 AM. Reason: grammar nit
KLJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 01:03 AM   #14817
Dudd
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Dudd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: pm karak w/ ffb questions
Posts: 54,252
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I think the difference between our league and the NBA is much less than between college and the NBA. Even if it is, I don't see why being a chucker makes you less effected by this defense than a medium usage, high efficiency scorer.
Dudd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 01:21 AM   #14818
kidcolin
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
kidcolin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: thank god for the hatchery
Posts: 108,763
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I don't think they are less affected. But I also think guys who were high usage, less efficient scorers as 2nd options who were highly skilled and thus thrust into that role, probably are a bit more efficient as a 4th option or off of the bench. Even Antoine's TS% jumped 40 points when he dropped to 25mpg on a stacked team.

I'm not saying chucking is a completely curable disease.. I don't think guys like Antoine and Stack are going to kill in this league or anything. But guys who were slightly below avg to avg TS% wise on 16 shots per game are probably going to be avg to above avg on 9 shots per game, depending on how they're used.
kidcolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 03:18 AM   #14819
horizon
old hand
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,501
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I pick Robert Horry
horizon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 03:46 AM   #14820
KLJ
20k hands/day
 
KLJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Topeka
Posts: 5,701
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

lister is the first guy not on my list that i'm surprised wasn't on it. huge foulbox (probably zero chance he can play 25 mpg). his Drtg is boosted because he played with Moncrief/Pressey/Lanier (after he left MIL his Drtg was 106 or 107ish). good value for this point.

regarding horry, i think most people forget he was actually athletic and versitile once upon a time, but i hate him anyway because i was rooting for the kings that year
KLJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 04:09 AM   #14821
BobboFitos
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
BobboFitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 72,764
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by horizon View Post
I pick Robert Horry
I ****ing hate horry
BobboFitos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 05:58 AM   #14822
nath
the second coming of the second coming
 
nath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Rust and Marty, a hundred years
Posts: 67,724
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
Weaknesses: name of a 18th century infantry soldier
LOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLL
nath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 08:42 AM   #14823
NopairParker
old hand
 
NopairParker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Little Armenia
Posts: 1,386
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I love the robert horry pick, I kknew he was going to be taken anytime now.

He brings a lot more to the table then his stats show.

The young pick is questionable, but I guess he does show potential or what not. Was there some kind of fear that someone else was going to draft him ? couldnt you wait till 10th round to get him.

By the way I have what you guys like to call " facemelter " In store, but am not sure when to select him. Im not quite sure if hes in anyones radar or not.
NopairParker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 10:01 AM   #14824
RUFFNECK
old hand
 
RUFFNECK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 1,444
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Lister was a last minute minute switch, I had him written down, but I honestly wasn't looking to grab him here maybe later.

I was waiting on Wayman Tisdale, then he went so I had another as backup. When I went back to check the backups stats I realized I had looked at them per 36 minutes and that he was really just avg. 8 min a game from 24-30. My next choice didn't qualify because of the year restraint.

I really wanted a big man 6'10+, there might be some guy who was better that was that size, but Lister was the best I could remember/search out.
RUFFNECK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 10:03 AM   #14825
capone0
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
capone0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Philly
Posts: 43,035
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I pick in like 20 slots but I don't want the draft to slow down if I have computer problems this week from my work laptop on a trip, can I PM anyone a list of guys I'm interested in, just in case it gets to me at some point this week.
capone0 is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive