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Old 07-02-2008, 11:17 PM   #14601
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

lol, drama if clarknasty takes him now? (because its not your turn JoA)
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Old 07-02-2008, 11:18 PM   #14602
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
Do I have to repost your comments on the Lakers/Nuggest at the end of the NBA Regular Season thread again?
Oh come on you know that wasn't really homerism. I just talked about how crappy the refereeing was, and besides, I was in a weird place at the time.

I'm just making the point that I don't think every player on the Nugs is god, you agree to that right?
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Old 07-02-2008, 11:22 PM   #14603
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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LOL at trying to prove a point by bringing up a post that has nothing to do with what you're trying to prove. Nice try though. All you need now is better reading comprehension.
It has nothing to do with me saying that one of your arguments for JR Smith was that I didn't know enough about him to comment on? Really? Is this where I put LOL, or should I make a snappy reading comprehension remark?
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Old 07-02-2008, 11:22 PM   #14604
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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lol, drama if clarknasty takes him now? (because its not your turn JoA)
DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

Actually wouldn't surprise me if Clark took him.
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Old 07-02-2008, 11:26 PM   #14605
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

Actually wouldn't surprise me if Clark took him.
was thinking the same thing. if eddie johnson got taken before my pick, i was heavily considering him
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Old 07-02-2008, 11:53 PM   #14606
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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It has nothing to do with me saying that one of your arguments for JR Smith was that I didn't know enough about him to comment on? Really? Is this where I put LOL, or should I make a snappy reading comprehension remark?
Actually you're right. You made a comment that was false, and I guided you to previous writings that refuted what you were saying. I don't think that qualifies as a lazy argument though, because clearly you were wrong. You knew it, and resorted to trolling as you've done here.

And still have not come up with anything other than "I saw him play in high school."

Ok I'm done with this, on ignore now.
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Old 07-02-2008, 11:57 PM   #14607
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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If Camby, Nene and Kenyon are all good defenders why is Denver bad defensively.
The Nugs defense is weird. FWIW I think Kenyon and Camby are a bit overrated and merely "good" defenders. They have this weird opportunistic style of defense that preys on mistakes, getting lots of blocks and steals and using that to trigger their very overrated offense. The problem with that is, good teams don't make those mistakes, and can make them look downright foolish. This is evidenced by just how bad their defense looked against the better teams, yet they still had a respectable defensive ranking.
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Old 07-03-2008, 12:09 AM   #14608
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

agreed. Camby is way overrated at D. He's fallen in love with the weakside block. Opposing Cs have a 52% eFG against him.
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Old 07-03-2008, 12:13 AM   #14609
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

sergsz please delete your post, its fixed now
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Old 07-03-2008, 12:14 AM   #14610
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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agreed. Camby is way overrated at D. He's fallen in love with the weakside block. Opposing Cs have a 52% eFG against him.
What makes it worse is that Kenyon is really bad at helping him out on the boards after he's left. So yeah Camby alters a ton of shots, but those shots end up being glorified passes under the rim. Nene is much better at that.
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Old 07-03-2008, 12:25 AM   #14611
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Round #7 / Pick 269 via LurchySoprano: Nene





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0JBqMiIsAQ

Nene is a unique player for many, many reasons. First, he has only one name*! Second, to go along w/ his one name, he only has one ball too - he had to have one removed due to a benign testicular tumor. Third, he is a Brazilian player who is not known for flopping, and on the contrary, is actually known for his toughness! *Nene actually does have a real name, which is Maybyner Rodney Hilario, but we'll just call him Nene - I'll do what I've done with everyone else, which is to list his basketball accomplishments, show his stats, and explain his role for my team.

Team BobboFitos
PG - Terrell Brandon (5'11)
SG - Andrew Toney (6'3), Danny Ainge (6'4)
SF - Eddie Jones (6'6), Bryon Russell (6'7)
PF - Derrick Coleman (6'10), Nene (6'11)
C - Shaquille O'Neal (7'1)

Nene is a 6'11/260 lbs. PF/C (he fits with my "heavy" frontline of Shaq & DC!) from Sao Carlos, Brazil. Nene is still currently active in what will be his 7th season (he entered the league as a 20 year old) and has actually played professional basketball longer than that. (They are "professional" at a young age outside of America!) Nene has been with the Denver Nuggets for his entire career, and has yet to receive any honors like All-Star Games or All-Defensive teams. (Although he made the 1st All-Rookie team!) As a rookie through his 24th year, Nene has been fairly consistent with a 15.5, 14.8, and 15.6 PER mark - his "breakout season" was his the year before last, as a 24 year old, where he put up a 17.8 PER to go along w/ his 113 ORtg and 104 DRtg. Clearly I hope that's the player I'm getting - even still, his 15.6 career PER and 105 ORtg/101 DRtg are nothing to be ashamed of. In fact, the 101 career DRtg is very impressive - I will not be starting Nene, but rather will use him as a boost for "big man energy" off the bench. Similar to Toney's role for my guards, that's how I forsee using Nene. I also may use some him instead of DC in some defensive-oriented lineups, although DC is no slouch on the defensive end either.

I want to hit on the intangibles that I get w/ Nene, since they are pretty important. For one, he's great in the locker room. Everyone loves him! But that's not what people want to hear about. Rather, he has been plagued by both injuries and cancer. His rookie year he played 80 games, then 77, then 55, then... 1. Yes, as a 23 year old, he blew his ACL and "boom" was done for the year. However, he rebounded the following year, when I get him, came back a little after the start, managed to play 64 games, and that's when he put up massive numbers. Last season he only played 16 games due to cancer, not because of any recurring ankle, knee, muscle, etc. stuff. It's worth noting he's also been able to play 27.5 mpg for his career, so even though people say he's "overweight," this in no way impacts his stamina. Getting back to missing games, I know he does not have a perfect bill of health, but I don't think any injury is a nagging one so it shouldnt impact his performance. The second key part is his cancer: Clearly this is a "freak" injury (and luckily for his sake it was benign in real life anyway) so by no means should he miss a season (or, most of a season) due to cancer treatment.

Defensively, Nene is very strong and big and has the height and quickness to guard either the 4 or 5. This is perfect, since he'll be my major rotation player to sub in for Shaq or DC, depending on personal fouls. I likely will pair Nene with Shaq when I need my best defensive frontline, but during crunch time I don't think Nene will be on the floor. (64.6% FT doesn't do it for me) In terms of boxscore stats, Nene has incredibly quick hands, averaging almost 2 a game per 36 mins. He also gets about a block a game. He fouls a normal amount (4.5 per 36) so it's nothing to worry about, especially as he'll only get ~24 mpg with me. It's worth noting his steal and block metrics have steadily increased with age - he hasn't hit his peak yet!

Offensively, Nene will generally be my 4th or 5th option on the floor. He is athletic enough to finish off passes (check his highlight real) but isn't known as a good midrange shooter. He has a decent post game, but with DC and Shaq paired with him, I just can't see feeding him the ball too often. For whatever it's worth, his usage is 18.4% career-wise, which is about what I see him for my team. (Oh, now is a good time to drop the fact he has a career .568 TS mark!) He is also a solid rebounder, grabbing 11.8 per 36 his past season. The last thing to note is Nene draws a LOT of fouls, which is something I've been interested in since I started drafting. Nene gets to the line 5.5 times per 36 mins, which is above average, and quite sexy - teams will be in severe foul trouble against me.

Going back to my overall philosophy (balance) I think Nene at this spot offers me a very good defensive big off the bench, a guy that can play either the 4 or 5 with ease, and will bring the intensity night in and out. Nene does a decent job forcing TOs and can finish on the break as well (hey, the Nuggets are fast pace and he does fine!) so clearly he's capable of that, too.
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Old 07-03-2008, 01:14 AM   #14612
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Ok now that Bobbo has finished his writeup (which was vv good), I'll comment more on Nene.

His weight - This was only an issue at the beginning of 2006/7. After blowing out his knee the previous season, he came in at ~280lbs, which was 15-20 lbs over his normal weight. He was back at 265 by the middle of November, and actually got as low as 245 over the course of the season. Towards the end he was getting pushed around by larger centers, and made it a point to come in heavier the next season. When he showed up at 265 the next year, people thought he was overweight, which wasn't the case. So his weight isn't nearly the issue that people make it out to be.

His defense - Perhaps I shouldn't metrics that compare him to TD and KG, because it wasn't my intention to say that he's on that level. But he's definitely an excellent defender, particularly in the post. The numbers are there, and from what I've seen I agree. Check out the job he did on Timmay in the playoffs last year. My favorite sequences start around 2:40. Notice how he doesn't over commit, very Duncan-esque.

His offense - Here's where I really think he's good. Simply put, I can't think of any other big man who plays as well as he does off the ball, perhaps Tyson Chandler. He's the perfect teammate, because he's great at setting picks and finding space when his man leaves him. Sure he'll never be considered an elite player with those types of skills, but then again we aren't talking about a first option. As a 3rd option or lower, he's perfect because all he does is make his teammates better. Here's a video that shows what I'm trying to explain. Notice how he moves off the ball, when his man leaves, he puts himself in a position to get an easy bucket. Also notice how effective Nene is after setting picks, and how quickly he gets to the rim coming off of them. If you can find someone who does this better let me know. I can think of a few, but not many and none drafted in the last three rounds. All this and he's one of the few current guys in the NBA with a low post game--he's not strictly a garbage man like so many defensive big men taken recently.

Bobbo mentioned his breakout season (@23), but that's only half the story. Nene was fat for the first part of that year, and improved as the season wore on. This is evidenced by his post-ASB numbers, where he put up 16PP/36 (14PPG) on 70% TS!

Nene fits PERFECTLY with Bobbo's team because he's got great passing bigs and great PnR guards. Shaq/Nene is just going to be murder down low, and DC/Nene will be no picnic either. Nene's power and off-ball skills will make it a very easy bucket if defenders double off him, which will make scoring quite a bit easier. I know Bobbo wanted Chris Gatling, but Nene's skillset is much better suited to his team. Chris was more of a creator and tended to play on his own. Nene is the type of player that needs and uses his teammates to put himself in high percentage situations, and Bobbo's team is just the type to do that.

Here's another vid from the DEN/SA playoff series, check out the D.

More Nene defense. Now this is how you defend a pick and roll.

Last edited by Seadood228; 07-03-2008 at 01:28 AM.
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Old 07-03-2008, 01:29 AM   #14613
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Oh come on you know that wasn't really homerism. I just talked about how crappy the refereeing was, and besides, I was in a weird place at the time.

I think we're talking about different things. I was talking about this:




Quote:
Originally Posted by Seadood228 View Post

How are the Lakers much more solid? Over the past month, they've been about equal. Nuggs have been the more schitzo team, but I actually think this is to their advantage considering that they really haven't laid an egg in any of their must-win (ie- playoff atmostphere) games.

@NJ
@TOR
DAL
GS
PHX
@GS
HOU

These were all must wins. For the first part of the stretch, they were 2-2.5 games back of 8th and needed to keep pace.

I don't understand what the big deal is with the Lakers, right now I'd say they are playing the fourth best BBall of the teams in the West. Their only real advantage is home court, imo.
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-The Lakers have won 8 of their past 9, and half of those wins were over playoff teams(SA, DAl, Wash, NO). The Nuggets have won 5 of their past 9, and only two of those wins were over playoff teams(Pho, Hous).


-The Lakers are 57-25; The Nuggets are 50-32.


-The Lakers have actually underperformed their Pytagorean W-L Record(59-23) meaning they've ran bad to "only" have 57 wins. The Nuggets are right where they should be according to the data.


-The Lakers have a +7.3 point differential per game; The Nuggets have a +3.6, less than half of the Lakers.


-The Lakers are 3rd in Offensive Rating; The Nuggets are 11th.


-The Lakers are 6th in Defensive Rating; The Nuggets are 11th.


-Denver is just 17-24 on the road, and as you mentioned the Lakers have home court advantage.


-I have no clue what you mean when you say that the Nuggets havn't laid an egg in any of their must win games. They've lost 4 out of the past 9 games, and look closer at the losses: a 15 point loss, a 27 point loss, a loss at home against Sacramento, and a loss at home against Seattle. These games were no less "must win" than any of their other games down the stretch, as if they won these games then games like the one against Golden State wouldn't have mattered.


-The Lakers are only playing the fourth best ball in the West? Who exactly is playing better than them? The Spurs who the Lakers beat by 21 points 3 days ago? The Mavericks who they beat at the beginning of the month? The Hornets who they beat 5 days ago? The Jazz who they beat on the road by 11 the last time they played(March 20th)?

Lets recap those facts here:
1. The Lakers have the best record in the West
2. The Lakers have the longest current win streak of any team in the West.
3. The Lakers have the best record over their past 10 games of any team in the West.
4. The Lakers have the best record in the month of April of any team in the West.
5. The Lakers beat the Jazz, Spurs, Hornets, Mavs, Nuggets, Warriors, and Suns the last time they played those teams. The only West team in the top 9 that has won the last time they played the Lakers were the Rockets.
6. The Lakers are 3-0 this year against Denver, winning by scores of 111-107, 127-99, and 116-99.


Yet somehow you only think they're playing the 4th best basketball currently in the West? Please do explain...













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Originally Posted by Seadood228 View Post

I'm just making the point that I don't think every player on the Nugs is god, you agree to that right?
Yea, I was just joking around with you(hence the smilie face at the end of my post there).
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Old 07-03-2008, 01:34 AM   #14614
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I think we're talking about different things. I was talking about this:

Yea, I was just joking around with you(hence the smilie face at the end of my post there).
Umm... that wasn't me who wrote that. That's my defense and I'm sticking to it

Still, let's not confuse Laker hate with Nugs homerism. They did end up sucking in the finals amirite? That's something I'd definitely cop to, being a Kobe hater. It's something I need to work on, but categorically refuse to because he's a douche.

[edit] GL tomorrow. Try to last more than a few hands this time...
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Old 07-03-2008, 01:39 AM   #14615
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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The second key part is his cancer: Clearly this is a "freak" injury
huh?
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Old 07-03-2008, 01:43 AM   #14616
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

oh hear we go
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Old 07-03-2008, 01:46 AM   #14617
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hear
huh?
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Old 07-03-2008, 01:48 AM   #14618
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I dunno if it's freak because there is evidence that it's hereditary. More importantly, testicular cancer generally has one of the best prognoses of all cancers. It's been a long time since I read about it, but IIRC the survival rate is very high, especially if diagnosed early. I think just being in the NBA puts you in the category that discovers it early.

I think it's safe to say that Nene is no more at risk than anyone else of death from this disease. perhaps an infantessimal amount..

Last edited by Seadood228; 07-03-2008 at 01:55 AM.
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Old 07-03-2008, 01:51 AM   #14619
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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huh?
good question...

Wheres Fadi - hes really good at using wikipedia...so I will PM him to see if he could pull somehting up on cancer being a freak injury.

Serioulsy though - I dont know if classifying Cancer as a freak injury is correct here Bobbo. Most are 'destined' to have Cancer...no matter what. Im not a veternarian or anything like that - but Im pretty sure this is the case with Cancer..no?

....and we're not talking about treating it (and the speed of the recovery)....just the point of having cancer period.
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Old 07-03-2008, 02:06 AM   #14620
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I tried finding more information, but ended up linking to a photo that grossed me out (why did I buy these huge monitors?). Bobbo, you're on your own on this one.
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Old 07-03-2008, 02:06 AM   #14621
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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huh?
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Old 07-03-2008, 02:22 AM   #14622
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

pretty much EXACTLY what I thought, KC.
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Old 07-03-2008, 02:58 AM   #14623
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

cliff notes? i sorta wish i was involved in this, but sorta not
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Old 07-03-2008, 03:22 AM   #14624
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cliff notes? i sorta wish i was involved in this, but sorta not
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?k...RG_QO_r1EoIoaA

or check the stickied thread at the top of Sporting Events for write ups of each pick.

Check the OP of this thread for a link to the rules.
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Old 07-03-2008, 03:53 AM   #14625
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Round 7, Pick 271: Cuttino Mobley




As starter most of his career, Mobley will be a great 6th man coming off the bench for me. He is the first penetrating guard/wingman I've taken since the first round, so he fits a need there. He can finish, shoot the three at a decent clip, hit his free throws, get some steals, and even averaged nearly a half a block per game for his career, very good for his position. Though defense is not a strength, Cuttino does have two double digit d-win share seasons on his resume, and he, not Maggete, often covers the best wing scorer on the opposing team. As with the rest of my team, he has stayed healthy throughout his career, so I can expect him to provide offensive energy for the duration of the league.

Seven picks into the draft, I am happy with the variety of lineups I can throw out there including a more defensive oriented one of Sammy, Herb, Rashard, Kobe, Hinrich, and maybe my favorite, an ultra small, up tempo style with Big Al, Rashard, Kobe, Cat, and Hinrich that will be very hard to defend against.

Team so far:

Kobe Bryant - SG
Al Jefferson - PF
Rashard Lewis - SF
Samuel Dalembert - C
Kirk Hinrich - PG
Herb Williams - C/PF
Cuttino Mobley - SG
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