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Old 07-01-2008, 11:36 PM   #14476
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Aaron Mckie
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Old 07-01-2008, 11:40 PM   #14477
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Round 7 Pick 267

PG/SG Vinnie “The Microwave” Johnson




A great sixth man rarely gets the appreciation he deserves but can be a key contributor that turns ordinary basketball teams into world champions. They come in cold from the bench, are expected to rest the starters and after this must deliver clutch performances which is why I am taking Vinnie Johnson.

Johnson was the unsung hero during the original heyday of the Pistons, teaming up with Isiah Thomas and Joe Dumars in the Pistons vaunted three-guard rotation. He scored points in spurts and heated up quickly, earning the moniker the “Microwave”. On my squad he will be part of another vaunted three-guard rotation featuring MJ, The Microwave and JET.

Vinnie became known for his ability to penetrate into the lane and hit jumpers. He also had a pension for offensive rebounding. Johnson’s moniker came from Celtics guard Danny Ainge who commented in the locker room, “If that guy in Chicago is the ‘Refrigerator’ then Vinnie Johnson is the ‘Microwave.’ He sure heated up in a hurry.” Thanks to Ainge, Johnson had a nickname that would stick the rest of his career. He was also quite durable as the fewest games he played in a post 24yr old season was 60, his final year.

Team So Far
PG-Jason Terry
SG-Michael Jordan
SF- Josh Smith
PF-Juwan Howard
C- Marcus Camby
Bench- Vinnie Johnson
Bench Joe Smith

Last edited by Steroid Boy; 07-01-2008 at 11:51 PM.
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Old 07-01-2008, 11:44 PM   #14478
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I love the microwave, thats like the greatest nickname for a 6th man ever. He's also a decent player too. Nice pick.
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Old 07-01-2008, 11:46 PM   #14479
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

It's hard to say anything bad about the last 3 picks taken. They all seem to fill their respective roles (3point shooing/Defense/Instant O) very well.

I especially like the McKie pick. He was pretty much next on my list when I took Bobby Phills in the 6th.
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Old 07-01-2008, 11:47 PM   #14480
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
I would love to redo this thing with maybe slightly different rules to change things up(maybe like you get the players at any age and guaranteed healthy), but do it all in one day with maybe 1 minute time limit per pick and no writeups required until after the draft.
in
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Old 07-01-2008, 11:54 PM   #14481
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Haha I looked at Johnson and for some reason thought in my head the rule was 80-81 for eligibility. Nice pick.
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Old 07-02-2008, 12:15 AM   #14482
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Whoever was saying that the spreadsheet rules, +1111
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Old 07-02-2008, 12:35 AM   #14483
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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With that Michael Adam's pick, all of these players have now been drafted. Gives me chills just watching it. I think the West roster was better fwiw.
God 'where's Hare Jordan?' is so, so bad. Who comes up with that? Who sees it through? Who lets him in the arena with that ****? Why does the camera go to it? It's just a parade of tilt.
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Old 07-02-2008, 12:47 AM   #14484
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I'm not sure if this will clear things up or put you even more on tilt.
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Old 07-02-2008, 12:48 AM   #14485
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I'm about to head out to play poker, but if HSP is around and picks, I will be able to (im around for 20 more mins)
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Old 07-02-2008, 12:54 AM   #14486
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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The three things that I would add are that Chandler would definitely been off the board @ my pick (TDarko was next pick and said he was going for Chandler after I picked). Second, Sabonis was not on my radar (my mistake) but TBach and I had revealed our intentions during the PM exchange, so I could hardly reverse course and pick Sabonis post-trade. Finally, Sabonis, while beastly, will not play in this league as long as Chandler.

If I had not made the trade, I would have had neither player - and I think having one of these two in the third round (based on available picks remaining) is key to the construction of my team.
I didnt think you lost majorly or anything, I just think it was a super savvy move by Tbach and possibly was a good move by you too. Just interesting to see the actual players that connect to the pick
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Old 07-02-2008, 12:54 AM   #14487
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

That 92 all star game was fairly loaded to say the least. West had the Dream, Deke and the Admiral at center, lol.
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Old 07-02-2008, 01:06 AM   #14488
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I decided to watch some of the game, thanks for linking that. I know its an all star game, so the defense is not intense, but the offensive repertoire of those guys is just unreal. So many good passes and finishes.
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Old 07-02-2008, 01:28 AM   #14489
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Eddie Johnson
Great youtube. Hasn't KC been lacking with his round updates/easter eggs? Or is it only because this round has taken forever (due to Bigcat) that I'm just forgetting stuff? I really like KLJ's team, I get the feeling his team is underrated defensively. Eaton/McDyess front line has to be towards the top, Moncrief LOCKING DOWN the best wing man, Carter can chill, and Kenny "the Jet" as your 5th dude... Eddie off the bench with such consistency... The question is can VC and "the squid" score enough?

Zach Randolph
Man, I want to link Marbury's Youtube Oh-So-Badly. Almost everyone has downsides in the 7th round, and with Zbo it's team chemistry x1000. He's never been on a "good" team. He's a "20/10" guy, but he's not terribly efficient - he'd rather play SG or something. http://youtube.com/watch?v=7lvYf08X6tc
Like, if he actually played the low post and learned to play defense, he'd be great. As is, wow. I wonder if you're going to start him - Kaman/Zbo are both guys who can create on their own, so I'm not sure the need for a PG, which is good, bc you have Van Exel "running" the point... Meh. I just don't know how I feel about Zbo. He has tremendous upside but serious flaws as well.

Brandan Wright
I'm a little surprised who has gone, and in what order, from the 2007 draft class. I think JoA mentioned this, but... Wright has 376 minutes played. Career-wise. If we're silly to make extrapolations for Bynum, then Wright is even sillier. I mean, IN his minutes, he did great things, but I am not ready to say they even mean anything. The funny thing is I actually think Wright is a perfect fit to Zoidberg's team; pairing him w/ a fast athletic team and letting him run loose is great. Eh, I suppose the jury is out on this one.

Raef Lafrentz
He was on my list of players I wanted. Big, good shooter, and an all-around good BASKETBALL PLAYER. His big downside is injuries, of course, but for a shooter-type he was still adequate at rebounding, blocking, etc. I thought I'd be able to snatch him up later because people have biases towards him... But when healthy he was a helluva player. Nicholas can throw a ton of intriguing lineups w/ the versatile Raef now imo.

Tyrone Hill
I think I mentioned him a bit already, but basically, Victor wins this round. I think he's the best value for his pick/best fit/etc. so great pick. I wanted him to slip to me, perhaps I was silly for not trading up to secure him. As said earlier, I think you cannot start Bogut and Amare at the same time, it's just so bad defensively... Whereas Amare and Ty is actually +rebounding and good "enough" defensively. I'll just stop here, but yes, Ty is better than "Bogurt".

Mike Dunleavy... Junior!
As it stands, I commented on this pick too, basically he's a diamond in the rough. I'm a little shocked his 3pt numbers arent better (they're surprisingly mediocre for someone who is thought of as an elite shooter) but it looks like you needed a backup wing, and he fills those minutes well. I'll comment on your other pick as well since you had 2 in near-succession...

Aaron McKie
I just love the fact he's back w/ Iverson. He's the defensive side of Dunleavy's coin; if you want offense off the bench, you goto MDL, if you need defense, plug in McKie. I think of him as a poor-man's James Posey, which is a good or bad thing. He's certainly an ingredient in a championship contending team, (that "defensive-minded wing man who does all the little stuff") and a positive lockerroom/glue guy, but the bad side I suppose is that he's just not as good at this as a bunch of other dudes. Also, it's weird to me you have BOTH Granger AND MDL; BOTH Iverson AND Mckie. Well, not weird, but poetic justice.

Jeff Foster
I'm trying to avoid using too many statistics when evaluating picks (just so these writeups aren't lame) but Foster is probably the most under appreciated big man (aside from Wages of Wins, which has him as a securely top 40 NBA player) in the last decade. The only stats I want to share are: He's the active OReb% leader (15.3%! that's insane!) and the 5th best in the NBA EVER. (To show his dominance in this regard, 2nd place among active players is 13%) His DRtg is 100 career, never having more than a 105 (which was last year) - this includes some sub-100 ratings, which are VERY difficult to achieve. I don't understand why teams don't play him more, esp. as he's 6'11 and can play the 4 or 5 very well, and it's not foul related as he only gets 4.3 per 36. Thing about this is I'm not really sure he's a good fit for BJL. BJL has one of the best creators in NBA history in Jason Kidd, and 2 guys who can create/get to the line/efficient in Maggette/Mitch, so I just don't see a ton of offensive rebound opportunities. Further, the knock on Foster (and Horford to a lesser extent) is that they aren't good @PnR or finishing alley-oops whatever... And that lessens Kidd's brilliance. I've got to say, BJL has a good amount of talent (even w/ blowing his 3rd round pick) but I don't like the makeup of his team.

Lindsey Hunter
I would love to mention undrafted PGs that are better on both ends of the floor, but I'm not even convinced Hunter would be a great 10th round pick. I just don't understand FaDi drafting Kelvin Ransey (awful pick) and Lindsey Hunter (awful pick) back to back; it's a weird PG-by-committee where no one else can really bring the ball up so "someone has to". I'm just going to assume Clyde will ALWAYS have the ball in his hands.

Stephen Jackson
Captain Whacko, SJaxx, Capt. Jack, Steven - he has a ton of nicknames. Really exciting player for many reasons, and a guy I just love to root for. I think in this league his character wont be a HUGE negative (palace brawl notwithstanding) since I think that was more Artest then SJaxx. His major negatives are not that he's a chucker (he does shoot more than the average Joe, but it's nothing to be afraid of) and yeah his efficiency isn't wonderful (.523 career, but got substantially better after his .503 and .423 22/23 years) but moreover his lack of rebounding (how does a 6'8 F grab fewer rebounds then Rajon Rondo?) and his defensive rep (not a turnover forcing ace, his RTg is very pedestrian) are more questionable. He does sorta just "fit" with Seadood's team though, and a legit 3pt threat never hurts. Having Mike Miller off the bench though minimizes Sjaxx's importance, since Miller to me is everything Sjaxx is, just better.

Michael Adams
He's been one of the best PGs available for a while. Not much to say here.

Dennis Scott
Sadly I know nothing about him
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Old 07-02-2008, 01:43 AM   #14490
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Stephen Jackson is the guy who "I can't believe is still available and I don't want him for my team because he doesn't fit, but the value just might be too big to pass up"...and hell, I said that like 20 picks ago. Insane value there imo.
Yeah, he was one of the three guys I wanted next. Oh well... Still got my fingers crossed,
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Old 07-02-2008, 04:20 AM   #14491
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Tyrone Hill
I'll just stop here, but yes, Ty is better than "Bogurt".

You're now the second person to say this. Feel free to respond to my comments on it:

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Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
Ah thats funny- see my above post- as he was the guy I was considering too.

What ultimately made my decision for me was injuries, as with Penny/AK47 on my team already I didn't want to take another injury prone guy.

As I said in my writeup, from ages 23-30 Outlaw played 80+ games in every non-strike year. Compare that to Tyrone Hill's games played during the same age span: 82, 74, 57, 70, 44, 74, 57, 38(strike year).

That really was the deciding factor, but even without that I think that Hill is probably the better player, but Outlaw is the better player for my team.

Hill's advantage over Outlaw is that he scores in slightly more bulk and is a better rebounder. However, I don't need more scoring in bulk. And while having a great rebound can never hurt your team, I already have one(Duncan) and every single guy on my team is a plus at rebounding for his position except AK47 when he plays PF(but hes a plus when he plays SF). Therefore, I didn't really see myself needing those two things.

Outlaw's edge over Hill is that hes a much better defender(especially in blocks/steals but also in straight up D as well imo) and is slightly more efficient. Both of those were very important to my team when I picked role players imo.

Quote:
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Let me add in that I think many people are greatly underestimating Outlaw's defense. In his best years he was putting up years of 3.3 blocks/2.0 steals and 3.3 blocks/1.6 steals per 36 minutes, and his career averages(which are greatly weighed down by later years of course) still come out to 2.1 blocks/1.5 steals per 36 minutes. The guy was a stud on D imo. Seriously, try to compile a list of players who have put up a season with over 3 blocks and 2 steals per 36 minutes....the list is not very long at all. In fact, other than David Robinson and Hakeem Olajuwon I can't think of a single other player who has done it. And anytime you're on a list with Hakeem and David Robinson, I'd say you're pretty damn good.

Tryone Hill's best numbers ever were 0.9 blocks and 1.4 steals per 36 minutes(and those were in two separate seasons).

Last edited by Assani Fisher; 07-02-2008 at 04:31 AM.
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Old 07-02-2008, 05:10 AM   #14492
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

lol: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKHGJurEWQc


pretty sure hes going undrafted btw, so forgive me for mentioning him
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Old 07-02-2008, 05:20 AM   #14493
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Old 07-02-2008, 08:43 AM   #14494
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

steroidboy,

josh smith isn't a sf...he can't dribble and he can't effectively guard sfs...also, if his man is a perimeter sf, then he gets drawn out there so he can't get help blocks, or (too often) he goes inside so he can try for a block, so the opp just passes the ball right out to his wide open man for an easy 3

he has to guard pf position and he really needs to play pf on offense and have a coach that won't let him jack up 3 point shots, where he shoots .253

his 2pt jump shot is also .291, one of the worst in the league

his saving grace is a >.610 inside shot...but u gotta ensure he shoots inside far more than outside...if he's sf, he'll stay on the perimeter even more on offense and will get beaten by his man on defense
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Old 07-02-2008, 08:51 AM   #14495
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Hill's advantage over Outlaw is that he scores in slightly more bulk and is a better rebounder. However, I don't need more scoring in bulk. And while having a great rebound can never hurt your team, I already have one(Duncan) and every single guy on my team is a plus at rebounding for his position except AK47 when he plays PF(but hes a plus when he plays SF). Therefore, I didn't really see myself needing those two things.

Outlaw's edge over Hill is that hes a much better defender(especially in blocks/steals but also in straight up D as well imo) and is slightly more efficient. Both of those were very important to my team when I picked role players imo.
Meh, I suppose you're right. They're quite close and I see how for your team Bo is better. But - Bo cannot play crunch time though (52% FT FTL!) averaged almost 6 mpg fewer than Hill throughout his career, and Ty is significantly better at rebounding (prolly shouldnt minimize this) - 12.5 vs 9 OReb rate is sick. I suppose they're close in talent.
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Old 07-02-2008, 10:32 AM   #14496
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

nicholas i understand the criticisms and i have a couple players in mind that will allow me flexibility within the lineup to allow smith to play the 4
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Old 07-02-2008, 10:41 AM   #14497
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

cool; b/c if he can get most of his mins at the 4 and has a coach that reigns him in, he could be a beast for you
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Old 07-02-2008, 11:06 AM   #14498
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I'd just like to note that I think that the significant majority of picks since Posey are better than Posey.
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Old 07-02-2008, 11:13 AM   #14499
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

oh and im looking to move up
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Old 07-02-2008, 11:29 AM   #14500
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

so i forgot to pm HSP and i go to do it and hes banned

wtf
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