Agree with both of you, although I don't think anyone here has ever said otherwise. Thats why guys like Rodman and Ben Wallace went in the 2nd round while guys like Raja Bell and Bowen went in the 6th round. I think everyone understands this completely in fact.

Oh yeah, and I think the biggest thing we've brushed over (and I'm a HUUUUGE offender of this) is rebounding. It's getting far to little love, and yet IMO is one of the biggest elements to a team. I don't understand why this is, and considering I only have like 30 minutes before I'm kicked off the library computer, I can't really divulge now.

The way I see it, is your whole team are very good/elite defenders except for Mike Miller who isn't terrible. Your team is easily in the top 4 defensive teams, and arguably the best (I think yours, Clarks, Assani's, and mine are the 4 best).

I think your offense is obv very good too but it just isn't as good as ur defense imo. I mean besides KG, you really don't have great shot creators for themselves. And even KG isn't great at this, he is much better in the role where he has great offensive players alongside him and doesn't have to be the main offensive guy like Pierce was this year.

Regardless I think your offense is very good and ur defense is elite, and u are the 2nd best team overall imo behind Clarks (and u are close to Clark and can def overtake him).

Hijack since you're now the second person to say this....

I've constantly said Duncan is the best defender in this draft, but I'll easily admit that Dikembe could be better.

What does everyone think about them defensively? Where do KG, Alonzo, Ewing, and the others rank in? And then what about Ben Wallace and Rodman?

I think top 10 defensive post players would be a very very interesting list to make. Maybe do one for one-on-one D, one for help D, and then one overall. Anyone feel like giving it a shot?

I agree with all of this, and it's a shame, this was Steroid Boy's to lose...and he lost it by a good margin too (he isn't even in my top 5 and there are still teams outside the top 5 i'd rank over his team too).

who's been underrating rebounding? Certainly not me. My front line owns the glass, son.

Mine too ftw. KG and Laimbeer 10th and 14th ALL TIME in drebounding % Offensively they are only 89th and 94th. Total rebound % they are 25th and 32nd ALL TIME.

It hasn't really been talked about. It's actually the reason I like seadood's team so much. KG and Laimbeer are such sick rebounders (in addition to all the other great things that they bring). That team will be very, very, very, very hard to put up points on.

I might do this. Assani I remember Deke giving Hakeem fits that year the Nugs beat the sonics and the Rockets won the title, but dismissed it as a semi-fluke. Looking at the stats though, many of them point to Mutombo being able to hold his own in a H2H. If I have time I'll go deeper.

[edit] Oh man, I just got chills thinking about that season. Nugs get blown out by the Sonics in games 1 and 2, then come back to win the next 3. They play the Jazz in the WCSF and go down 3-0, then win the next three to force a game 7, with one of those games being a 2OT thriller featuring last second shots by both teams. That Nugs team was really a bunch of overachievers, especially considering that only one of them has been drafted.

[edit2]Make that 2. Rodney was just drafted, but he was a pipsqueak then..

My front court is beastly on the boards, both AC and Admiral are top 100 all time in rebound percentage and in the 40s all time in o-reb percentage. Given that they were so efficient and played more like huge 3s than 4s/5s, that's amazing.

Anyway:

+1 to BigCat being dropped
+1 to some good posts lately, especially EPiPen
+1 to Seadood's sentiment that there are quite a few good teams that we can't gauge properly without looking at matchups.

My top 5:
1. Seadood- The KG/Laimbeer frontcourt is just gonna be too much to handle. This team is going to hold you to like 40 points per game.
2. Bobbo- As much as I disliked the DC pick, guy's still talented and Bobbo's surrounded Shaq with a bunch of guys that can shoot (in addition to their other great basketball qualities).
3. sergz- Such a solid 1-5 team and once Bruce comes in, this is going to be another insane defensive powerhouse.
4. horizon- LBJ with good inside help = a great defensive team. LBJ + shooters you can't cheat off of + inside players who (a) play inside and (b) don't suck = an offense that will get it done.
5. cowboy- Love this team. It's so solidly built. You guys can hate on Toine all you want, but it's not like he's going to kill your team. Just don't let him off the bench.

I had to make my writeup abrupt, but here are the next 5: kidcolin, clark, epipen, GKA, JoA (no particular order there). FWIW, all of these teams are very close.

Not going to do a worst 5.

Also, just want to mention that you all should take a closer look at my team. It's huuge (6'4, 6'8, 6'8, 6'10, 7'3 + 6'9 otb). Also, very skilled. Before my players get injured (that 5 year period), my team will be a force to be reckoned with.

If there is no one else, Ill take over his team. It's just so bad though!

D

You guys can sweeten the deal if you let me drop Roy ****** Tarpley and pick twice in a row.

D

I'd be down for that, but others might not.

Think of it as one of those abused dogs you take from the shelter just so it doesn't get put down. Sure, you could probably do better for yourself, but in your heart you know you are doing the right thing.

I was going to put in my post that this is probably the best team for the first few years, but didn't want to single anyone out because there are so many good teams. But I do think that this is the toughest team to matchup with offensively when healthy, and vv good defensively.

KC's team is underrated by this board imo, just like Ainge's defense. I can't wait for a certain player to be drafted (he will go soon) so I can tell my favorite Ainge story. And it's not Tree Rollins. JOA's team is obviously awesome too.

I don't see what's wrong with that, its like I traded down one round for nothing. The only problem I could see is if someone this past round wanted Tarpley, but I doubt anyone did.

D

You also make things interesting too though. While I can understand the hate, overall I'm definitely glad you're a part of this.


Nobody has really analyzed your team though. Hell, I think my team is one of the top teams, but nobodys talked about it recently either. Different teams get talked about at different times. That doesn't mean anyone's underrating it imo.


I do agree with this, but as I said to you earlier I think you can get away with not having great shooting if you have great penetrators at your wing spots because it still forces the defense to pay attention to them as the D simply can't be effective if its out of position when they start their drives. Otherwise, I definitely agree.


I agree with this. And as I've said in a few posts above, I think people are misunderstanding what makes a great offense(I think you feel pretty much the same way I do that people are overrating having a bunch of bulk scorers with no real fit).


I agree with the bold, but I would've limited the list to teams who are at least elite at one of the two and good/elite at the other.


Loved the first four picks, hated how Lever fits with the team. I think Heinrich definitely would've been a better choice.

BTW...can Lebron actually play the point full time on offense? I don't mean like he does in real life; I mean full time PG. If so then I would've loved taking Bowen as your fifth starter. On offense it gives you another shooter, and you don't really need much else since your team is pretty set on offense with Lebron scoring and creating open shots for others. And it would obviously help on D...yeah you'd probably have to have Bowen guard the other team's PG, but hes shown he can do that when he defends Nash or Paul, right? You'd probably be "wasting" some of his defensive excellence by occassionally having him guarding guys like Rondo who are little threat, but overall I think it may work.

IF you ignore that strategy, I think Hinrich would've been a better fit here.

But yea...this is a tough tough team imo. Like it a lot.


Makes sense to me, but exactly how many minutes is Lebron going to be sitting each game?

Agreed....didn't Grant have a decent midrange jumper though?


Obviously I agree on defense, as that was my main strategy. I do think I'm elite on offense, but I can understand the criticisms.


Not sure I understand this. AK47 and McCray are very much "point forward" types. Moreover, are you saying that my PG is not a creator at all?

I will agree with you that most of the time my offense will be posting Duncan up or isolating Penny(sometimes on a postup too) and running it out of that....and really how many more options than that do you need?

But I can definitely envision some backdoor screens for alley oops to Penny from Harper, and I can envision the ball movement being superb on my team even after the ball has long left Penny or Duncan's hands.

I will agree that when Outlaw is in the game it gives me one less option, so when he is playing I will rely upon Penny or Duncan to take over or really create wide open shots moreso. When hes not in the game, I think it can very much be a total team effort on offense.

Obviously a very fair criticism. I wish I took Eddie Jones instead of Penny. I just couldn't pass up the elite performance that Penny brings. I mean honestly...when Penny is healthy does any team come close to my 1/2 combo of Duncan/Penny?

But yea, due to the injuries I think it was a mistake pick(especially with Jones there).


Understand your point, and I'm definitely going to add a 3 point shooter at some point in the draft. There are still a ton of guys who can hit the open 3 available.

agreed here. Good team.


Loved the first two picks. I think the defense is really good. I think the offense may struggle at times. Who do they give the ball to with the score tied and 10 seconds left? Or what about when the shot clock is running down? Offense to me is good but not great.


I'm not nearly as high on Hardaway as others. Overall I think this is a solid team top to bottom...no bad picks for sure.


Loved the first two picks, thought Caron was a solid value, kinda meh on the rest of the team though. Still a really good team, but I think I was hoping for more. Not a fan at all of the Blaylock pick. Could've had:

Could've had:

PG Hinrich
SG Petrovic
SF Maggette
PF Nance
C Ewing

Love the D due to the first two picks. Hate the Rondo pick, especially considering he took Harris next. I think I would've preferred a slasher type to compliment JJ bettter than Richardson. Maybe Rudy Gay for example. But then try to get a better 3 point shooting PG next round.


As I said above, I like this team for sure.


I told Bobbo this same thing today when we were playing basketball.




Overall, good post. I'll do a writeup of your team soon too.

Deal, if I can neuter him (cut Tarpley). Must control the pet population.

D

Assani, what do you think of D104's idea? We could get this draft running again pronto.

I will take over for Big Cat's team if I am allowed to cut Tarpley and get 2 picks right now.

edit: I see this was just suggested right above me.

My posts got misinterpreted. (I not thinking clearly anyway))
I was more thinking about the way people were evaluating teams than about the actual draft process.
I agree that fit is more important, and that's mostly how I drafted my team(except for the Lever pick, but that's another story).
I just feel that people overrate harmonious looking teams when evaluating them. If you look at a team with a solid big man, a good point guard, a swingman who can defend and shoot the three, you tend to think wow that team is awesome (maybe like Nich's team for instance), because it is like a puzzle where every piece fit.
On the other hand, a dysfunctionnal team with top talent seems to get overlooked in the evaluating process because it doesn't look as good.
I'm fairly certain that Steroid teams would be top ten easily IRL, simply because his team has Jordan surrounded by competent player, and Jordan is that sick.
I just feel that people are evaluating the way teams have been built more than their true value.

But Jordan's team in this draft can't touch his old team imo. It's not even close. There are many teams here I think would smoke those Bulls. TBach's team in years 2-5 especially. Jordan was god, but come on it's not like he didn't play with some great guys around him.

I think this is reasonable, but we have to agree that Tarpley is officially excluded from the list of eligble players from this point on. He might start looking good in the late 9th/10th.