Quote:
Originally Posted by EPiPeN11
First I wanna say I apoligize for acting like a douchebag sometimes during this thread. While I still don't think I was wrong in any of my arguments, I def handled them poorly, for that I am sorry.
.
You also make things interesting too though. While I can understand the hate, overall I'm definitely glad you're a part of this.
Quote:
I also wanna say my team is def being very underrated/overlooked because a ton of you guys hate me and have a personal bias against me and I realize I brought that upon myself.
Nobody has really analyzed your team though. Hell, I think my team is one of the top teams, but nobodys talked about it recently either. Different teams get talked about at different times. That doesn't mean anyone's underrating it imo.
Quote:
Regardless... other things I think are being overlooked in this are that having BOTH an elite defense and an elite offense as well as floor spacing (mainly 3pt shooting but midranges shots are fine as long as you only have a few of them) are the key aspects being overlooked imo.
I do agree with this, but as I said to you earlier I think you can get away with not having great shooting if you have great penetrators at your wing spots because it still forces the defense to pay attention to them as the D simply can't be effective if its out of position when they start their drives. Otherwise, I definitely agree.
Quote:
Horizon said defense is overrated and I could not disagree more, it is just as important in this league as offense (and even more inmport than offense the regular NBA). But he is right, if you have the best defense and you have an average/below average offense, you won't win it all in this league. However if you have the best offense, yet have an average/below average defense, you won't win it all either. What you need is BOTH a very good/elite offense and a very good/elite defense and I feel only a few teams have that.
I agree with this. And as I've said in a few posts above, I think people are misunderstanding what makes a great offense(I think you feel pretty much the same way I do that people are overrating having a bunch of bulk scorers with no real fit).
Quote:
So removing all my bias...Teams that I feel have a very good/elite offense and defense besides me are:
Quote:
Jordan, Camby, Josh Smith, Jason Terry, Juwan Howard, Joe Smith.... I don't think either his offense or defense is elite but they are both very good (offense is really only very good cause of Jordan but he has very little offensive help around him which is a problem). Defense is very good yet not elite imo because they really don't have a great post defender (Camby is a lot better at help defense and kinda gets killed by very good/elite bigmen).
I agree with the bold, but I would've limited the list to teams who are at least elite at one of the two and good/elite at the other.
Quote:
Horizon:
Lebron, Grant, Petrovic, Okafor, Lever, Barros...I think this def is a very good defensive team. Lebron, Grant, Lever are very good if not great defenders. Okafor is pretty good although overrated imo. The rest aren't great defenders but they aren't terrible either. There offensive is better than their defense but I don't know if I would call it elite because they will have both Grant/Okafor who need to play near the hoop which could be a problem especially since Lebron loves to drive. And if they start Lever their offense will def be even worse than very good as they will have 3 very bad shooters, and Lebron isn't a great 3pt shooter either.
Loved the first four picks, hated how Lever fits with the team. I think Heinrich definitely would've been a better choice.
BTW...can Lebron actually play the point full time on offense? I don't mean like he does in real life; I mean full time PG. If so then I would've loved taking Bowen as your fifth starter. On offense it gives you another shooter, and you don't really need much else since your team is pretty set on offense with Lebron scoring and creating open shots for others. And it would obviously help on D...yeah you'd probably have to have Bowen guard the other team's PG, but hes shown he can do that when he defends Nash or Paul, right? You'd probably be "wasting" some of his defensive excellence by occassionally having him guarding guys like Rondo who are little threat, but overall I think it may work.
IF you ignore that strategy, I think Hinrich would've been a better fit here.
But yea...this is a tough tough team imo. Like it a lot.
Quote:
I think starting Barros is a must and having Lever come off as a 6th man would be ideal. Lever and Lebron are both a lot more effective with the ball in their hands, so if you make sure Lever is on the court at all times when Lebron isn't, your offense will be a lot better.
Makes sense to me, but exactly how many minutes is Lebron going to be sitting each game?
Quote:
Drazen is lights out and I loved the pick (was considering him over Martin). He can play both off the ball and on the ball equally as well. Lebron is obv Lebron but he needs the ball in his hands to be most effective. I think if you had drafted a defensive PG who could hit the 3, ur team would possibly be top 3 in the league, I think drafting Fat really hurt ur team imo especially because now he is playing with Grant/Okafor who also can't shoot making it a lot easier to double Lebron/Petrovic.
Agreed....didn't Grant have a decent midrange jumper though?
Quote:
Assani's team:
Duncan, Penny, AK47, Harper, McCray, Outlaw... I think his defense is def elite, one of the best if not the best in the entire league. However his offense while good, barely makes the very good list imo.
Obviously I agree on defense, as that was my main strategy. I do think I'm elite on offense, but I can understand the criticisms.
Quote:
Duncan and Penny are really their only 2 creators
Not sure I understand this. AK47 and McCray are very much "point forward" types. Moreover, are you saying that my PG is not a creator at all?
I will agree with you that most of the time my offense will be posting Duncan up or isolating Penny(sometimes on a postup too) and running it out of that....and really how many more options than that do you need?
But I can definitely envision some backdoor screens for alley oops to Penny from Harper, and I can envision the ball movement being superb on my team even after the ball has long left Penny or Duncan's hands.
I will agree that when Outlaw is in the game it gives me one less option, so when he is playing I will rely upon Penny or Duncan to take over or really create wide open shots moreso. When hes not in the game, I think it can very much be a total team effort on offense.
Quote:
and although they both are great at this, Penny will be a lot worse in 3 years.
Obviously a very fair criticism. I wish I took Eddie Jones instead of Penny. I just couldn't pass up the elite performance that Penny brings. I mean honestly...when Penny is healthy does any team come close to my 1/2 combo of Duncan/Penny?
But yea, due to the injuries I think it was a mistake pick(especially with Jones there).
Quote:
Also their floor spacing isn't that good at all, AK47 sucks off the ball, Harper can hit a 3 but it's not like hes amazing by any stretch, McCray apparently has a good midrange game? (don't know much about him), and Outlaw will be right near the hoop so while he won't be an offensive liability, he will make AK47 into one since AK47 has a bad jump shot. I realize you have Bo on ur bench, but I would def try to limit as much as possible the time AK47 and Bo are on the court together.
Understand your point, and I'm definitely going to add a 3 point shooter at some point in the draft. There are still a ton of guys who can hit the open 3 available.
Quote:
Jack of Arcades:
David Robinson, Terry Porter, Mark Aguirre, AC Green, McKey, Korver...I think this team is more balanced than the 2 above. I think both it's offense and defense are very good and possibly both elite although I don't think they are quite at the elite mark.
agreed here. Good team.
Quote:
Seadood228
KG, Laimbeer, Hornacek, Mike Miller, Bobby Phills, Elden Campbell...I think this team is the best so far out of all I listed. It has an elite defense and a very good offense. KG/Laimbeer compliment themselves very well (KG was by far the most effective when he didn't have to guard the best PF/C like this year when Perk did that, and Laimbeer can do it as well). They have good wing defenders too minus Mike Miller, and Campbell is a very good defensive bigman off the bench. Their offense isn't quite as good, as I think KG's offense is overrated but still very good, but they really don't have an elite #2 option, which I think is a problem since KG is best when he doesn't have to create on offense all the time. Regardless they have very good floor spacing and players who can hit the 3.
Loved the first two picks. I think the defense is really good. I think the offense may struggle at times. Who do they give the ball to with the score tied and 10 seconds left? Or what about when the shot clock is running down? Offense to me is good but not great.
Quote:
Caponeo
Dwight Howard, Tim Hardaway, Andre Iguodala, Steve Smith Cliff Robinson, David Lee....I don't think this team has either an elite offense or defense but both are very good. On offense they really do lack a #1 option, as Dwight is def not that yet. Hardaway and Iggy can both be #1 options but they aren't really great at it. I don't think there floor spacing is amazing either, but at least a bunch of them can shoot the 3 even if it isn't really that high of a percentage. There defense I feel is better than there offense and is possibly elite although i'd say slightly worse. Howard is obv elite, Iggy is very good, Cliff is very good too. The rest aren't very good but aren't terrible either.
I'm not nearly as high on Hardaway as others. Overall I think this is a solid team top to bottom...no bad picks for sure.
Quote:
Clark
Ewing, Nance, Blaylock, Houston, Butler, Curry...I like this team the best although I think it's only slightly ahead of Seadood's. This defense is def elite, and like Assani's is one of, if not the best in the league. There offense I think is very good too and possibly elite also. Not much really needs to be said, this is a great team but I feel as if he hadn't gone with Mookie or Houston that early, this team would be even better as Ewing/Nance/Butler were all great picks.
Loved the first two picks, thought Caron was a solid value, kinda meh on the rest of the team though. Still a really good team, but I think I was hoping for more. Not a fan at all of the Blaylock pick. Could've had:
Could've had:
PG Hinrich
SG Petrovic
SF Maggette
PF Nance
C Ewing
Quote:
Nicholasp27
Mourning, Buck Williams, Joe Johnson, JRich, Rondo, Harris...I think this team is a def elite defensive team. Mourning/Buck compliment each other really well (Mourning great help defender, Buck great man defender). Joe Johnson is a very underrated defender around here, JRich isn't amazing but he isn't terrible either, and Rondo/Harris are both very good/elite defenders. There offense I think barely makes very good though. They def don't have a great #1 option, and really only have like 3 #2 options (Johnson, Mourning, JRich) and neither of them are amazing offensive players but they are very good. There floor spacing is ok but they really only have 2 players who can shoot the 3 (Johnson/Jrich) and Rondo can't shoot at all and neither can Buck (def would never play these 2 together).
Love the D due to the first two picks. Hate the Rondo pick, especially considering he took Harris next. I think I would've preferred a slasher type to compliment JJ bettter than Richardson. Maybe Rudy Gay for example. But then try to get a better 3 point shooting PG next round.
Quote:
Sergsz
Mutombo, Arenas, Schrempf, Gay, Ruland, Bowen...I think this defense is very good and possibly elite just because of Mutombo and Bowen alone. However Arenas is not a great defender, Schrempf wasn't either, and neither is Ruland. Gay is pretty good though too with the potential to get better. Their offense is very good as well too, Arenas can score and hit the 3, Schrempf is a very good shooter, Bowen can hit a corner 3 so he isn't a liability on offense, and Gay can create/shoot the 3 as well. Ruland can also score, and Mutombo can just play near the hoop. I love their floor spacing which will open things up on offense.
As I said above, I like this team for sure.
Quote:
4.Bobbo (this team barley missed the very good defensive cut, but I think it's offense is great because of Shaq/Eddie and floor spacing). I also feel like this team could have been much better had it made different picks after Shaq/Eddie (I thought this was the best 1/2 combo in the entire draft) which focused more on defensive players who could hit shots since you want the ball in Shaq's hands a ton of the time.
I told Bobbo this same thing today when we were playing basketball.
Overall, good post. I'll do a writeup of your team soon too.