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Old 06-21-2008, 07:40 AM   #13401
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUYjD7A75HQ&NR=1
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Old 06-21-2008, 07:52 AM   #13402
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Damn everything, I wanted just one of Dell Curry, X Man or Jeff Malone to fall to me, ah well back to the drawing board.
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Old 06-21-2008, 09:23 AM   #13403
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by BobboFitos View Post
yeah, doc is an idiot, but perk always gets 2 quick fouls which results in lack of PT. also he's rarely on the floor during crunch time, can't hit a FT obv

"However Perkins man almost never gets an offensive rebound, which is very important and doesn't show up in the stats sheet."

this is speculation and nearly impossible to prove, and from watching games, i'd say it isn't true. there is another guy on the celtics who hasn't been drafted yet who is incredible at boxing out, and by doing so, doesn't get a ton of boards, but prevents his man from getting an o-board.
lol he def always doesn't get 2 quick fouls (does it happen? Yes, but it's far from always).

And he can be on the floor on crunch time, his ft percentage isn't Shaqlike and he has actually improved it as the year went on.

I know who you are talking about and no way is this other guy better at rebounding than Perk. Infact YOU and a lot of other Celtic homers overrate this other guy.
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Old 06-21-2008, 09:24 AM   #13404
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Sorry bro because I like the Perkins pick and I like your team a lot in general, but I make way more than you at poker
Ya sorry xorbie I forgot about you lol
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Old 06-21-2008, 09:26 AM   #13405
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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defending epi here:
he is def. a boston homer, def. loves overrating his team (who doesnt? everyone likes doing this) but he is far from the worst poster. he rarely ruins threads (it's typically other people that call HIM out, so in fact THEY ruin threads) and his insight on OTHER teams is generally very good and informative.

franchise, lately you've been getting into a ton of arguments on this thread. why?
I disagree that I am a homer (which implies I overrate the Celtics). If I was a homer, why do I think KG is overrated, Rondo is overrated, and another unnamed bench player who u mentioned earlier is overrated? (All 3 of these guys Celtic homers love)
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Old 06-21-2008, 09:26 AM   #13406
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I think several of you are really underrating Perkins defense, which is the primary reason I drafted him.
fyp
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Old 06-21-2008, 09:28 AM   #13407
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
<------$138,322 in PokerStars MTTs alone in 2008 according to OfficialPokerRankings, plus I play cash games and live tourneys and have won significant amounts there too! What do I win????

edited to add: I play $25/50 and higher, so I don't even have the option due to lack of tables, but even if I did....I think I'd rather be broke than 24 table....god thats torture imo.
Congrats, i'm sure you put in a ton more hours than me and i'm sure my hourly is higher (and i'm almost positive I have more money to my name as well), so you win nothing.

And 24 tables >>>>>>>>>> 1 table, 24 tables isn't torture at all where 1 table is like watching paint dry

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Old 06-21-2008, 09:30 AM   #13408
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Love the Jeff Malone pick. Was a finalist who lost out to Curry at my pick.

Not sure why all the love for Haywood. I mean, really? He deserves to get drafted, but I think this is a little early. Obv better than Perkins, but this is a guy who can't stay on the court enough to beat out Etan Thomas for several years.
lol please, Haywood has never had a better year than Perk had this year which includes defense obv.

And Haywood is 28, Perk is 23, Perk still has a chance to improve upon this year (as long as he stays healthy).

I thought since you guys didn't see Perkins all year, watching him own Gasol and Rasheed (when matched up vs him) on a national stage would have opened ur eyes (even though hes been doing it all year) but I guess not.

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Old 06-21-2008, 09:59 AM   #13409
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

i like perk but i think he is already out of shape as a young guy so i think his longevity is seriously questionable.
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Old 06-21-2008, 10:12 AM   #13410
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Yeah, I mean, its baffling to me that so many people don't actually give guys *credit* for longevity when most players don't have it. Look at all the guys so far in this draft who, if drafted during their 23-24-25-26yo seasons would have gone several rounds higher, but ended up getting drafted later because the longevity just wasn't there.

Plus, Perkins has had plenty of opportunity to improve. There's every reason to believe he's a 6/6 guy for the rest of his career and very little reason to think he's going to improve further.
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Old 06-21-2008, 10:22 AM   #13411
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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lol he def always doesn't get 2 quick fouls (does it happen? Yes, but it's far from always).

And he can be on the floor on crunch time, his ft percentage isn't Shaqlike and he has actually improved it as the year went on.

I know who you are talking about and no way is this other guy better at rebounding than Perk. Infact YOU and a lot of other Celtic homers overrate this other guy.
obviously he doesn't "always" get 2 quick fouls! But you need to notice that his career 5.1 PF per 36 is the major reason as to WHY he doesn't get more minutes. Plus as KKF said, he is out of shape already - he played on a slow paced team, so surely you can't say his conditioning would be better / would allow him to play a full game. Perkins 61.9% FT shooting is pretty woeful as well, so I don't know why you would WANT him on the floor in crunch time.

I love the other guy, and if he's around for my last pick, I'm going to pick him. But I don't overrate him: I'm not saying he's BETTER than Perk by any stretch of the imagination.

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I disagree that I am a homer (which implies I overrate the Celtics). If I was a homer, why do I think KG is overrated, Rondo is overrated, and another unnamed bench player who u mentioned earlier is overrated? (All 3 of these guys Celtic homers love)
Epi, you're a homer. Even homers dislike certain players on their team. For example, I love the Jazz very much, but I love/hate Boozer (and think he's wildly overrated).

Quote:
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Yeah, I mean, its baffling to me that so many people don't actually give guys *credit* for longevity when most players don't have it. Look at all the guys so far in this draft who, if drafted during their 23-24-25-26yo seasons would have gone several rounds higher, but ended up getting drafted later because the longevity just wasn't there.

Plus, Perkins has had plenty of opportunity to improve. There's every reason to believe he's a 6/6 guy for the rest of his career and very little reason to think he's going to improve further.
I agree w/ Clark.
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Old 06-21-2008, 10:33 AM   #13412
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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OK so Perkins is a good pick b/c Epip makes money at poker?

[ ] I get it
[x] argument from authority fallacy

As is his statement that he is 'smarter than most' (and therefore correct). If you strain out the ad hominem attacks and argument from authority from Epeen's statements, there is some good substance left. There is also a bunch of hyperbole. I don't care to parse it all.
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Old 06-21-2008, 10:46 AM   #13413
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EPiPeN11 View Post
If I was a homer, why do I think KG is overrated, Rondo is overrated, and another unnamed bench player who u mentioned earlier is overrated? (All 3 of these guys Celtic homers love)
I don't listen to country music or vote Republican. These are things that white people do. Therefore I am not white.
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Old 06-21-2008, 10:52 AM   #13414
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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i like perk but i think he is already out of shape as a young guy so i think his longevity is seriously questionable.
Perkins is not in as bad shape as you think, he lost a ton of weight hence his shape has gotten a lot better, he can def play 30-35 mpg
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Old 06-21-2008, 10:54 AM   #13415
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by ClarkNasty View Post
Yeah, I mean, its baffling to me that so many people don't actually give guys *credit* for longevity when most players don't have it. Look at all the guys so far in this draft who, if drafted during their 23-24-25-26yo seasons would have gone several rounds higher, but ended up getting drafted later because the longevity just wasn't there.

Plus, Perkins has had plenty of opportunity to improve. There's every reason to believe he's a 6/6 guy for the rest of his career and very little reason to think he's going to improve further.
lol wtf? He has improved every year in the league except for 2 years ago when he played with plantar facitus sp all year long. He improved drastically this year as well...He is also only 23....

I would bet any money u want and give u 5:1 odds that he goes over 6/6 at least once in his career.

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Old 06-21-2008, 10:57 AM   #13416
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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obviously he doesn't "always" get 2 quick fouls! But you need to notice that his career 5.1 PF per 36 is the major reason as to WHY he doesn't get more minutes. Plus as KKF said, he is out of shape already - he played on a slow paced team, so surely you can't say his conditioning would be better / would allow him to play a full game. Perkins 61.9% FT shooting is pretty woeful as well, so I don't know why you would WANT him on the floor in crunch time.
3....that is the number of games Perkins has fouled out in this entire season (and guess what, the number was even lower last year).

Bringing up his career foul rate per 36 is also ridiculous. No one is claiming Perk wasn't a foul box his first 3 years in the league, however the last 2 he has cut that down to 4.9 and 4.6 respectivley and keeps getting better in that regard.

Perkins isn't going to be getting fouled at the end of games, because I will have him under the other teams hoop so if he gets the ball it will be a dunk. He will be in for defense obv.

You guys act like I will be playing Perkins 40 mpg...no he will get 30-35 mpg (probably on the lower end towards 30). There is absolutly no reason he can't play these minutes.
Quote:
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I love the other guy, and if he's around for my last pick, I'm going to pick him. But I don't overrate him: I'm not saying he's BETTER than Perk by any stretch of the imagination.
I hope you are joking that you would actually pick him.


Quote:
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Epi, you're a homer. Even homers dislike certain players on their team. For example, I love the Jazz very much, but I love/hate Boozer (and think he's wildly overrated).


I agree w/ Clark.
Fair enough, I still don't think i'm a homer.
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Old 06-21-2008, 10:59 AM   #13417
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

- Clark's comment on longevity is good stuff. There are countless players who started out hot, or on an upswing, only to have things go south for various reasons.

- Whenever I hear "xxxx is a steal at this point" or "I'm shocked that xxxx has fallen this far," I'm already bracing myself to dislike the pick.

- This last batch of draft picks have been very, very good imo. I would never have been able to pair some of these picks up as well as some GM's have.


Some comments on the picks, and since there are so many these will be short.

Bogie - I'm higher on him than most, but still think this may be a bit high for him. I can't knock that, however, since it looks like Assani is trying to trade some picks to get another guy. I disagree with those that have said he's an offensive zero because he was pretty good off the ball. I also disagree with Assani when he said that you can't double off him. IMO this depends on who has the ball initially, but thankfully that Duncan fella is pretty good at passing.

Del Curry - Great pick for Clarks team imo. I think it's debatable whether or not he's better than Wally. Obviously Zerbs is more efficient, but longevity-wise and meta-game considerations would have me taking Dell first. Others have mentioned it, but more of Wally's shots come off doubles, whereas Curry got his from running the defense ragged off screens... I disagree with the "only good at 3's after 29," because that seems like it's more a function of the offense that they ran as his percentages were still very good in his mid 20's.

X Man - Pretty good pick, not that hasn't already been said. I didn't see him play that much so I can't comment on his D.

Dana Barros - As others have said, awesome fit for LBJ.

Jeff Malone - Seems solid. I like another player a bit more in this spot though, but not terribly so.

Perk - Agree with the others about this being a reach. I do think he's a great defender, but he's going to have to pull a few more similar seasons together to convince me of the value.

Brendan Haywood - Seems like a great big man off the bench.

Bryon Russell - WTF with this overrated, low volume garbage man? Ok just kidding. Truthfully, I love the pick and debated long and hard between him and Bobby Phills. They both were great defenders who guarded three positions, both could hit from outside, and both were selfless, well-respected role players on great teams. Bryon had size, a more efficient offensive game, and a better Drating. Bobby brings better outside shooting, more assists, and an all D nod (Drating and all D nods tend to tell a partial story). I went as far as to compare their games against MJ and other greats, and nothing came away conclusive. In the end I chose the better 3pt shooter, but very well could have made the wrong decision. Either way, I think he may have been the last of the great defensive wings who could shoot, and did it over a decent stretch of time. As far as him and EJ, Bobby Phills shared the court with EJ, so I don't think that's much of an issue.

Last edited by Seadood228; 06-21-2008 at 11:04 AM.
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Old 06-21-2008, 11:20 AM   #13418
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

A bit of topic, but one of the things I've really enjoyed while I'm bored at work is watching games that include some of the players that have been drafted. I came across this awesome one a while back when I was researching Bryon Russell.

Drafted players included (Knicks vs. Jazz, 1998)

NYN -

Oakley
Starks
LJ
Allen Houston
Terry Cummings
Herb Williams played a minute
Ewing hurt

Utah

Karl Malone
John Stockton
Jeff Hornacek
Bryon Russell

Last edited by Seadood228; 06-21-2008 at 11:32 AM.
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Old 06-21-2008, 11:32 AM   #13419
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Actually---as a Celtics fan, if Perk has a career similar to Haywood I would be pretty satisfied considering he was the 27th pick in the draft.

I think he could still get himself into the Dalembert range, depending on how hard he wants to work.
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Old 06-21-2008, 11:38 AM   #13420
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Actually---as a Celtics fan, if Perk has a career similar to Haywood I would be pretty satisfied considering he was the 27th pick in the draft.

I think he could still get himself into the Dalembert range, depending on how hard he wants to work.
I would have said this at the time of when we actually drafted him, but if he has a similar career after what he did last season to Haywood he would be a disapointment.

And we all should know as Celtics fans that Perk works ridiculously hard, just look at what the man did with his body. He came in all fat and now he is jacked and lost almost all his fat.
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Old 06-21-2008, 11:55 AM   #13421
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seadood228 View Post
A bit of topic, but one of the things I've really enjoyed while I'm bored at work is watching games that include some of the players that have been drafted. I came across this awesome one a while back when I was researching Bryon Russell.

Drafted players included (Knicks vs. Jazz, 1998)

NYN -

Oakley
Starks
LJ
Allen Houston
Terry Cummings
Herb Williams played a minute
Ewing hurt

Utah

Karl Malone
John Stockton
Jeff Hornacek
Bryon Russell
just watching this reminds me how much of a beast Karl Malone was. Sickeningly strong. He is just beasting Cummings.
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Old 06-21-2008, 12:06 PM   #13422
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

wow john stockton was money
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Old 06-21-2008, 12:11 PM   #13423
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

lol houston so unclutch
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Old 06-21-2008, 12:17 PM   #13424
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Wow russell cannot miss from 3s
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Old 06-21-2008, 12:21 PM   #13425
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

savvy play from russell fouling houston out

edit: lol @ houston's stat line. 25 pts. 1 reb. 1 ast.
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