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Old 06-20-2008, 07:41 PM   #13276
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by LurchySoprano View Post
Teams I like better defensively than ePiPen's:

- Steroid Boy (Terry, Jordan, Smith, Howard, Camby)
- Assani (Harper, Penny, AK47, Duncan, Outlaw)
- Clark (Blaylock, Houston, Butler, Nance, Ewing)

Those are just the three that are better without a doubt (IMO) on the defensive end. There are several other teams I think you can make arguments for.
wow I def disagree with Steroid Boys the most (I don't think his team is even close to mine on D), Terry is no where near an elite defender, and Josh Smith is an overrated defender. Juwan Howard isn't an elite defender either. Heck even Camby's D is overrated.

I think you can make an argument for Clark's, but I think mine is better cause Houston on D was not good, and Butler while a good defender, being the best SG/SF defender in ur lineup def doesn't make his D better than mine.
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Old 06-20-2008, 07:42 PM   #13277
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Hakeem can't be great value, because he's worse than Admiral.
I think DRob was amazing...but with me putting Hakeem in the Top 3 or 4 (for this draft) would mean that I strongly disagree with what youre saying JoA. Strongly.
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Old 06-20-2008, 07:45 PM   #13278
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

It looks to me Epip - the only reason your benching Kmart in favor for Raja Bell is so you can make an argument for "Best Defensive Team"...and I havnt looked at all the rosters close enough - but Clarks team is better defensively than yours by a mile. Sorry.

Just admit your benching KMart for that reason and that reason only...cuz that makes no sense.
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Old 06-20-2008, 07:46 PM   #13279
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Ehh, I guess I feel that Billups can be a bit overrated on the defensive end and from what little I remember about McHale his defense was not his strongsuit (note: I'm not trying to argue about McHale).

As for Martin, he's just so efficient I would definitely start him over Bell or Deng, but that's just a matter of preference.
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Old 06-20-2008, 07:47 PM   #13280
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I dont think its a stretch by any means when I say....you overrate everyone on your team....by a large margin.
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Old 06-20-2008, 07:49 PM   #13281
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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It looks to me Epip - the only reason your benching Kmart in favor for Raja Bell is so you can make an argument for "Best Defensive Team"...and I havnt looked at all the rosters close enough - but Clarks team is better defensively than yours by a mile. Sorry.

Just admit your benching KMart for that reason and that reason only...cuz that makes no sense.
Uh no i'm "benching" him for scoring off the bench wtf.

I guess the Spurs benched Manu cause he sucked too. It really amazes me how some people know so little about simple basketball concepts around here.

I guess John Havlicek and Kevin McHale sucked too cause they were also "benched" as 6th men.
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Old 06-20-2008, 07:51 PM   #13282
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by LurchySoprano View Post
Ehh, I guess I feel that Billups can be a bit overrated on the defensive end and from what little I remember about McHale his defense was not his strongsuit (note: I'm not trying to argue about McHale).

As for Martin, he's just so efficient I would definitely start him over Bell or Deng, but that's just a matter of preference.
I don't think Billups D is overrated at all, I feel like it is rated like it is, he is a very good defender and possibly great.

And while defense might not be the best thing McHale was good at (scoring on the low block obv was), he clearly was a very good if not great defender as he made the 1st All NBA defensive team 3 times and the 2nd All NBA defensive team 3 times as well (which is a combined 6 times for either 1st or 2nd defensive team, and would have made these teams more had he not played on a broken foot).
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Old 06-20-2008, 07:53 PM   #13283
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

gawd, kp is such an obv homer pick. so many better players out there.
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Old 06-20-2008, 07:54 PM   #13284
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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gawd, kp is such an obv homer pick. so many better players out there.
great insight i'd def argue Perkins is better than Campbell, Herb Williams, and Bo Outlaw
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Old 06-20-2008, 08:05 PM   #13285
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Uh no i'm "benching" him for scoring off the bench wtf.

I guess the Spurs benched Manu cause he sucked too. It really amazes me how some people know so little about simple basketball concepts around here.

I guess John Havlicek and Kevin McHale sucked too cause they were also "benched" as 6th men.
yes - and youre absolutely brilliant.lol

Im not doubting good player have come off the bench...Im just questioning your motives behind this move, thats all. I strongly feel you made this move to only strengthen your (weak) argument for "Best Defnsive Team". Its obvious - your Basketball IQ is through the roof - so I apologize a thousand times sir for insulting your intelligence. and when I say apologize I mean spit on the ground you walk on.

You dont have a slasher or mid range shot in your starting lineup...especially not at the caliber of Martin...I dont see the logic of benching him unless you either want to attempt to sound extra smart or make an arguement for "Best Defensive Team".
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Old 06-20-2008, 08:12 PM   #13286
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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yes - and youre absolutely brilliant.lol

Im not doubting good player have come off the bench...Im just questioning your motives behind this move, thats all. I strongly feel you made this move to only strengthen your (weak) argument for "Best Defnsive Team". Its obvious - your Basketball IQ is through the roof - so I apologize a thousand times sir for insulting your intelligence. and when I say apologize I mean spit on the ground you walk on.

You dont have a slasher or mid range shot in your starting lineup...especially not at the caliber of Martin...I dont see the logic of benching him unless you want to attempt to sound extra smart or make an arguement for "Best Defensive Team".
lol i'm not even going to get into a pissing contest right now....

So I will explain as best I can without doing so

First off Deng is a slasher and can hit a midrange shot as well, so you're wrong. Second McHale is also a very good if not great midrange shooter so you are wrong with the midrange comment as I have 2, and wrong with the slasher comment (I have 1 in Deng, and Billups can drive to the hoop as well although I wouldn't call him a great slasher).

My starters have enough offense as is, I have 1 great offensive player (McHale), 1 very good offensive player (Billups), and 1 pretty good offensive player Deng. I also have Bell who can knock down 3pters at a very high percentage, and Perk who can offensive rebound/dunk.

I need scoring off my bench, so I moved my probably 2nd best scorer (Martin) to the bench to give me that, so when my starters come out I can have Martin fresh coming in and able to score very efficently (I plan on having at least one of Billups/McHale/Deng out there with Martin as well so I have at the very worst 2 very good options).

Yes Martin going on the bench improves my starting lineup's defense, but it is not the main factor in the move, the main factor is to provide my team better balance so we don't go through scoring drouts when my bench comes in. Martin will also be able to guard weaker offensive players off the bench as well, and will be able to get the ball in his hands more (he wouldn't be getting the ball nearly as much with McHale/Billups/Deng on the floor with him).
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Old 06-20-2008, 08:16 PM   #13287
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Manu "comes off the bench" because he can barely play 30 minutes per game. Anyway the start/doesn't start distinction is still ridiculous, how many minutes are they gonna get?
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Old 06-20-2008, 08:18 PM   #13288
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I reedited my post right away after i re-read it and put a lil explanation there becuase i was expecting this question to arise...youre too quick Battschr lol....

anyway - I strongly flt he was a Top 3 or 4 pick...was very surprised he sropped to 7....but in all honesty - I think Mark Jackson takes number 1 on this list.
#1 MJ, #2 Shaq, #3 Hakeem?

I strongly disagree with Hakeem above LBJ, but I can understand it based upon philosophical differences of taking youth vs proven players. However, you're going to have to sell me on Hakeem over Duncan. I think Duncan is a better defender(no slight to Hakeem there at all, as I think Duncan is the best defensive player ever), and keep in mind that his teams played at a slower pace, which kept his bulk numbers downa bit(and even still they're pretty much equal to Hakeem's). Duncan has pretty much had as much success as anyone possibly could team wise too.
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Old 06-20-2008, 08:18 PM   #13289
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Manu "comes off the bench" because he can barely play 30 minutes per game. Anyway the start/doesn't start distinction is still ridiculous, how many minutes are they gonna get?
I will divide the minutes based on matchups, but Martin should be playing in the range of 30-35 mpg.

I plan on going with a 3 man SG/SF rotation with Martin/Deng/Bell all getting in the 30-35 mpg range with possibly adding another SF later who will get like maybe 10 mpg.
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Old 06-20-2008, 08:20 PM   #13290
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Man, Durant actually may have been taken too high... Also, disagree pretty strongly with Pierce, he got taken about in the range he should've been, possibly also too high.
Pierce is a better defender and way way more efficient than TMac, yet TMac was taken #28, while Pierce slipped to #39. I personally would've taken Pierce at #23 overall...I would've taken him ahead of everyone drafted after Gary Payton and also above Nique, Drexler, and Thomas.
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Old 06-20-2008, 08:21 PM   #13291
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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You passed on Durant? Your also in love with Durant, see your posts from last year when you thought he would be the #2 overall pick of current players or something rediculously high.

I love Lee, even picked him, but he's on the Knicks and they don't win with him on the team.
Yea, with Penny my team needs to win now so I couldn't take Durant.

Not sure what your point about Lee is. Plenty of good players(TMac, KG, Wade) went way higher than Lee and have been on very bad teams. What does that prove?
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Old 06-20-2008, 08:25 PM   #13292
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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big dog 213?
Eh, the point of this exercise was to tout other people's picks, not your own, but I'll comment....

Solid value at that spot. Not the type of guy I want to build a team around though- not efficient or great at D. If only he could get to the line more(where hes a careeer 82% shooter) and not take as many midrange shots, he'd be much more valuable imo.

For your team though, I think he was a pretty good pick because other than Amare you don't really have a dominant scorer. I'm not sure I love your team(seems like the recent Phoenix Suns really), but they'll be fun to watch and will compete with anyone due to their ability to score imo.
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Old 06-20-2008, 08:26 PM   #13293
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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also, i think theres a few guys out there that are tremendous value.

mashburn, butler and sprewel were good value imo.
While they didn't crack my top 10, I thought they were all good picks.
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Old 06-20-2008, 08:27 PM   #13294
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by KLJ View Post
"#241 + #360 for my #250 + #324"

trade with ePeen. i gotta shut off my computer, so i'll try to log on earlyish tomorrow in the unlikely occurrence that it's my pick by then
how many times can epeen trade up?
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Old 06-20-2008, 08:30 PM   #13295
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Perkins is also a very good rebounder although the stats don't show this as much since he has played with 2 great rebounders in Big Al and KG.
Was your strategy going in to make this argument for your entire frontcourt?


Overall I like the pick, but I think hes a bit overrated defensively. He fouls a ton especially for someone with rather pedestrian steal/block numbers.
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Old 06-20-2008, 08:33 PM   #13296
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Ya he has to cut down on the fouls but that is def not a big reason why he doesn't play more minutes (Doc is the big reason). Perk isn't in foul trouble as often as you'd think.

For his career hes averaged 5.1 fouls per every 36 minutes played.
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Old 06-20-2008, 08:35 PM   #13297
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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#1 MJ, #2 Shaq, #3 Hakeem?

I strongly disagree with Hakeem above LBJ, but I can understand it based upon philosophical differences of taking youth vs proven players. However, you're going to have to sell me on Hakeem over Duncan. I think Duncan is a better defender(no slight to Hakeem there at all, as I think Duncan is the best defensive player ever), and keep in mind that his teams played at a slower pace, which kept his bulk numbers downa bit(and even still they're pretty much equal to Hakeem's). Duncan has pretty much had as much success as anyone possibly could team wise too.
Hakeem at 3 or 4....its obvious the top two being MJ and Shaq...but I think its debatable between Magic and Keem for the number 3 spot and could go either way depending on the GM and their basic strategy for building their franchise. The consensus usually is "draft big"...but Magic being Magic - he could easily be the #4 pick here.

Regardless of whether hes picked at the 3rd or 4th spot - I do think Keem is the best center not named Shaq in this draft. Pound for pound - the most skilled and complete big man Ive ever seen in my lifetime. He was rediculously athletic and I dont think his stats (though they were great), told the full story to what Hakeem brought to the table.

(DRob is a close second in the race for most athletic Centers ever imo)
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Old 06-20-2008, 08:35 PM   #13298
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Was your strategy going in to make this argument for your entire frontcourt?


Overall I like the pick, but I think hes a bit overrated defensively. He fouls a ton especially for someone with rather pedestrian steal/block numbers.
Of course it wasn't my strategy, however ignoring the fact (which u seem to be doing) that in general if you play alongside great rebounders your rebounding goes down is ridiculous.

Also Perk def doesn't have "pedestrian" block numbers, he has averaged over 2 blocks per 36 every year of his career.

Also if you think Perk isn't a good rebounder than you clearly have not watched him play.
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Old 06-20-2008, 08:36 PM   #13299
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Yea the fouling is a big issue and hurts his value a lot.
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Old 06-20-2008, 08:36 PM   #13300
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I think DRob was amazing...but with me putting Hakeem in the Top 3 or 4 (for this draft) would mean that I strongly disagree with what youre saying JoA. Strongly.
We've already been through this before, but I think Hakeem and DR are extremely comparable players, but everyone ranks Hakeem higher due to one playoff series.
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