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Old 06-16-2008, 10:27 PM   #12826
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Hey....


A few guys have PMed me about secretly skipping his pick. Let me know if yo'ure interested.



Assani
Very much so, I'll take his next round pick and you can take this round, how does that sound?
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Old 06-16-2008, 10:37 PM   #12827
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I hate to be one of those "just watch the games" guys, but seriously....just watch Bowen on D...hes not overrated.
i know he's a stud defensively, but I'm talking overall.
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Old 06-16-2008, 10:37 PM   #12828
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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What does he do well though? He puts up bulk stats, but he takes so many shots at such a bad rate that it just kills his team. I just don't think he does anything to help a team win games.
Well, c'mon man - Boston had some decent teams in the early part of the decade with 'Toine & Paul leading the way. They weren't championship caliber, but they had Paul and Antoine for stars w/ some pretty scrubby role players and they won games.
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Old 06-16-2008, 10:39 PM   #12829
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I just don't get this sentiment. 'Toine isn't one of the top 400 players of the last 30 years? C'mon...
I'm sorry to be so harsh on your pick, but I don't think hes one of the top 2000 players of the past 30 years. I would literally cut him from every NBA team. He hurts your team, not helps it imo.

Walker is a big reason why I feel as if Pierce has always been underrated. Pierce carried that team so much and was held back by Walker.

All time leaders in loss shares:

1. Walker 348
2. Reggie Theus 296
2t. Latrell Sprewell 296
4. Undrafted player 293
5. Undrafted player 275



52 more loss shares than #2 all time! And Walker has played in less games than either of those tied for #2!
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Old 06-16-2008, 10:43 PM   #12830
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Looking at Pierce/Walker stats for each year is tilting the hell out of me right now. How on earth could Walker take more or just slightly less shots than Pierce when Pierce was just so much more efficient!!!
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Old 06-16-2008, 10:46 PM   #12831
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I'm sorry to be so harsh on your pick, but I don't think hes one of the top 2000 players of the past 30 years. I would literally cut him from every NBA team. He hurts your team, not helps it imo.

Walker is a big reason why I feel as if Pierce has always been underrated. Pierce carried that team so much and was held back by Walker.

All time leaders in loss shares:

1. Walker 348
2. Reggie Theus 296
2t. Latrell Sprewell 296
4. Undrafted player 293
5. Undrafted player 275



52 more loss shares than #2 all time! And Walker has played in less games than either of those tied for #2!
It would be so much fun to actually watch these games. I think Antoine would be a great boost off the bench, but there is no way for me to prove it. Also, I found the formula for calculating win shares, but how did they adapt that method to loss shares?
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Old 06-16-2008, 10:52 PM   #12832
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I've watched the games, and Antoine has no conscious. I mean, he's basically a slightly better version of a guy whose fans created a website asking him to hey, please stop taking so many bad shots, and I can't imagine him getting drafted at any point. But hey, you've got the wiggle, so at least he brings entertainment along with terrible volume shooting.
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Old 06-16-2008, 10:54 PM   #12833
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

But he has Sheed and Larry Johnson. And the Glove! Winner.
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Old 06-16-2008, 10:56 PM   #12834
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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But he has Sheed and Larry Johnson. And the Glove! Winner.
Man....I loved his first 4 picks sooooooooooo much too. Was one of my favorite(and best imo) teams.
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Old 06-16-2008, 10:57 PM   #12835
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I've watched the games, and Antoine has no conscious. I mean, he's basically a slightly better version of a guy whose fans created a website asking him to hey, please stop taking so many bad shots, and I can't imagine him getting drafted at any point. But hey, you've got the wiggle, so at least he brings entertainment along with terrible volume shooting.
PM me telling me who this is please?
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Old 06-16-2008, 10:58 PM   #12836
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I've watched the games
Just to be clear: what I meant in my previous post was not to imply that anyone hasn't watched the games, but that the games between our hypothetical teams would be fun as hell to watch.
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Old 06-16-2008, 11:00 PM   #12837
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Man....I loved his first 4 picks sooooooooooo much too. Was one of my favorite(and best imo) teams.
My 6th round pick is killing my team? NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL - i hope not
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Old 06-16-2008, 11:03 PM   #12838
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

why all the toine hate? he'd be great in a Princeton offense
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Old 06-16-2008, 11:08 PM   #12839
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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PM me telling me who this is please?
CC me on PM?
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Old 06-16-2008, 11:10 PM   #12840
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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My 6th round pick is killing my team? NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL - i hope not
That too. If you have one of the best starting five in the draft then take like the worst player in the NBA in the 6th... I don't see how it makes much difference.
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Old 06-16-2008, 11:40 PM   #12841
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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i'll get my pick up this afternoon
no time for us?
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Old 06-16-2008, 11:42 PM   #12842
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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That too. If you have one of the best starting five in the draft then take like the worst player in the NBA in the 6th... I don't see how it makes much difference.
I didn't say it was killing his team. I said that it was one of my favorites and has slipped a bit now down to around middle of the pack. A 6th man does indeed play a lot of minutes though, so you can't act as if its unimportant.
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Old 06-17-2008, 12:07 AM   #12843
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

i know who Dudd mean
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Old 06-17-2008, 12:09 AM   #12844
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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no time for us?
too much time in video games and puzzles.
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Old 06-17-2008, 01:09 AM   #12845
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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If he was overrated IRL, how about for this exercise?

Getting him @ 215 was good value IMO
lol no
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Old 06-17-2008, 01:12 AM   #12846
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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In short, here are SOME of the things Antoine does poorly:
1. He is a career .484 TS with a usage of 26.5%. In other words, he's likely the worst shooter on the floor and yet shoots the most. He's never even shot less than an "average" amount (lowest usages were 22.8, 22.3, 21.8) and he has exactly TWO seasons >50% TS (.524, .505).
2. Re-highlighting this, he found a way to shoot 8, 7.5, and 7.4 3s a game at the age you get him (24-26) at a below average clip (albeit close to average - 34ish %) so calling him a "legit" threat from downtown isn't really the truth, it's more like "he will shoot no matter what".
3. For a point-forward, as others have mentioned, he's found a way to turn the ball over 3x a game or more in his career 6 times (!). Although an ok passer for his position, his A/T is just more than 1:1. (3.5:2.8)
4. You say his rebounding is a plus, but this just isn't true. If he's playing the 4 spot on your team, he's below average as a boarder, he's 6'8 and his career TRB% is 12.5%. (That's really good... for a 2 guard). So per 36, he's just shy of 8 boards a game, most average 4s around 36 get ~10.
5. He never really had a peak. He made the all star team as a 21, 25, and 26 yr old, but he was pretty much the same player from the age of 21 to 29. It looks like he's done now though, as the past 2 years he's been horrific.

I love Antoine, I love his energy, his enthusiasm, and his love of the game, but he doesn't do anything well and does a few things that hurt you. So, not a good pick, even @ spot 215th.
this...except I hate Antoine
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Old 06-17-2008, 01:13 AM   #12847
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I'm going to be honest, I wouldn't choose Antoine with the last pick in the 10th round, I think he's that bad.
+1
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Old 06-17-2008, 01:16 AM   #12848
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I'm sorry to be so harsh on your pick, but I don't think hes one of the top 2000 players of the past 30 years.
lol wat

I probably hate Walker probably more than anyone in this thread, but jesus christ he is def one of the top 2000 players in the past 30 years. He is another reason why most valueable is different than best player.

Walker will def be a better basketball player than some people in this draft, but I would def take those people over Walker on my team anyday.
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Old 06-17-2008, 01:17 AM   #12849
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

i dont think the walker pick was too out of line. i mean, he had to go somewhere. i have him as my 50th ranked PF, and wouldn't have drafted him for my team, but don't think it's a ******ed pick or anything. seems pretty useful in a gimmick-type offense

not like it means anything, but he was leading available players in all-star games (i think).
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Old 06-17-2008, 01:20 AM   #12850
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I'm pretty sure the wiggle is what got to him to all star games, not his performance. It all comes back to the wiggle.
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