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Old 06-16-2008, 08:48 PM   #12801
BobboFitos
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

In short, here are SOME of the things Antoine does poorly:
1. He is a career .484 TS with a usage of 26.5%. In other words, he's likely the worst shooter on the floor and yet shoots the most. He's never even shot less than an "average" amount (lowest usages were 22.8, 22.3, 21.8) and he has exactly TWO seasons >50% TS (.524, .505).
2. Re-highlighting this, he found a way to shoot 8, 7.5, and 7.4 3s a game at the age you get him (24-26) at a below average clip (albeit close to average - 34ish %) so calling him a "legit" threat from downtown isn't really the truth, it's more like "he will shoot no matter what".
3. For a point-forward, as others have mentioned, he's found a way to turn the ball over 3x a game or more in his career 6 times (!). Although an ok passer for his position, his A/T is just more than 1:1. (3.5:2.8)
4. You say his rebounding is a plus, but this just isn't true. If he's playing the 4 spot on your team, he's below average as a boarder, he's 6'8 and his career TRB% is 12.5%. (That's really good... for a 2 guard). So per 36, he's just shy of 8 boards a game, most average 4s around 36 get ~10.
5. He never really had a peak. He made the all star team as a 21, 25, and 26 yr old, but he was pretty much the same player from the age of 21 to 29. It looks like he's done now though, as the past 2 years he's been horrific.

I love Antoine, I love his energy, his enthusiasm, and his love of the game, but he doesn't do anything well and does a few things that hurt you. So, not a good pick, even @ spot 215th.
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Old 06-16-2008, 08:55 PM   #12802
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

But Antoine can't shoot! He has two years where he took 300 3s at less than .300 from 3! He took the most shots in the league in 01-02 at under 40%, fg% not 3pt%. He has two years of a ts% over .500.
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Old 06-16-2008, 08:57 PM   #12803
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Bah, Nicholas has been posting all day and yet hasn't made his pick, and here I sit idly with the next pick. Going to play bball.
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Old 06-16-2008, 09:05 PM   #12804
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by BobboFitos View Post
Bah, Nicholas has been posting all day and yet hasn't made his pick, and here I sit idly with the next pick. Going to play bball.
i would ask you to pm a writeup, but as slow as this has been going for the last week it doesn't matter
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Old 06-16-2008, 09:07 PM   #12805
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

neeeeeeeeed moaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrr pickkkkkkkkkkkkkkks
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Old 06-16-2008, 09:09 PM   #12806
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by BobboFitos View Post

4. You say his rebounding is a plus, but this just isn't true. If he's playing the 4 spot on your team, he's below average as a boarder, he's 6'8 and his career TRB% is 12.5%. (That's really good... for a 2 guard). So per 36, he's just shy of 8 boards a game, most average 4s around 36 get ~10.
12.5% stacks up pretty good for a small forward.
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Old 06-16-2008, 09:14 PM   #12807
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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- Tbach is my new favorite poster, and in general I think the Boston homers are quite knowledgeable about basketball. They get a thumbs down for being silent about the 'Toine pick though.
Seriously, I feel as if I was the only person to comment on that pick, and I think its one of the worst in the draft.
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Old 06-16-2008, 09:19 PM   #12808
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Seriously, I feel as if I was the only person to comment on that pick, and I think its one of the worst in the draft.
I think the rest of us were just in shock.
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Old 06-16-2008, 09:23 PM   #12809
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Actually I was just referring to the fact MM gets a lot of layups (30% of his points) even though he's not a typical slasher. His excellent outside shooting forces his defender to play him tight, often running at him if out of position, and overall he has less room for error. That allows Mike to get around his man and inside easier. I used MM because he's fairly un-athletic and slow, yet still gets a lot of layups. Hedo and Manu are also good examples of slow dudes who do this, imo. These guys wouldn't be nearly effective if they weren't such good bombers.

But I totally agree with the point you were making except for the unmentioned player.
LOL....this seems a lot to me like "If they're white then they must be unathletic and slow" line of thinking.
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Old 06-16-2008, 09:41 PM   #12810
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I think its pretty obvious that most posters are forgetting these classic Antoine moments:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxHdQ5bFQYI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nghhv...eature=related
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Old 06-16-2008, 09:57 PM   #12811
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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12.5% stacks up pretty good for a small forward.
Yeah, it does, but you said he was going to play the "4" on your team, and I was saying his rebounding vs a 4 is not above average, in fact, it's a bit below average. If you play him at the 3 his rebounding is fine but it's hardly an asset.
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Old 06-16-2008, 09:58 PM   #12812
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I love Antoine, I love his energy, his enthusiasm, and his love of the game, but he doesn't do anything well and does a few things that hurt you. So, not a good pick, even @ spot 215th.
I'm going to be honest, I wouldn't choose Antoine with the last pick in the 10th round, I think he's that bad. Love the wiggle though.
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Old 06-16-2008, 10:05 PM   #12813
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Yeah, it does, but you said he was going to play the "4" on your team, and I was saying his rebounding vs a 4 is not above average, in fact, it's a bit below average. If you play him at the 3 his rebounding is fine but it's hardly an asset.
I said 3 or SF consistantly.
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Old 06-16-2008, 10:06 PM   #12814
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I'm going to be honest, I wouldn't choose Antoine with the last pick in the 10th round, I think he's that bad. Love the wiggle though.
there goes my last pick

needed an official wiggler
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Old 06-16-2008, 10:14 PM   #12815
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I said 3 or SF consistantly.
ok, my b then. his rebounding is still not a plus though.
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Old 06-16-2008, 10:15 PM   #12816
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by cowboy2579 View Post
I think its pretty obvious that most posters are forgetting these classic Antoine moments:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxHdQ5bFQYI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nghhv...eature=related
AHHAHAHAHHAHAHAH - "Marcus you got OWWWWWWNEEED.....NOOOOOOOO. It can get worse"

D
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Old 06-16-2008, 10:16 PM   #12817
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I'm going to be honest, I wouldn't choose Antoine with the last pick in the 10th round, I think he's that bad. Love the wiggle though.
I just don't get this sentiment. 'Toine isn't one of the top 400 players of the last 30 years? C'mon...
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Old 06-16-2008, 10:16 PM   #12818
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

cowboy has the team I'd pay to see on a daily basis. That's gotta be worth something.
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Old 06-16-2008, 10:21 PM   #12819
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by cowboy2579 View Post
I think its pretty obvious that most posters are forgetting these classic Antoine moments:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxHdQ5bFQYI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nghhv...eature=related
these are incredible
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Old 06-16-2008, 10:21 PM   #12820
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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cowboy has the team I'd pay to see on a daily basis. That's gotta be worth something.
lol - I hope so.
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Old 06-16-2008, 10:23 PM   #12821
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

this is the real reason 'toine rules: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MI3sj3XKrQ

and the end of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2D19...eature=related
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Old 06-16-2008, 10:24 PM   #12822
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Pierce rates better than Bowen here, too. I'm beginning to think Bowen's severely overrated. I think he's a good, solid player, but he's offensively inept and isn't like, DPOY good.
I hate to be one of those "just watch the games" guys, but seriously....just watch Bowen on D...hes not overrated.
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Old 06-16-2008, 10:24 PM   #12823
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I just don't get this sentiment. 'Toine isn't one of the top 400 players of the last 30 years? C'mon...
What does he do well though? He puts up bulk stats, but he takes so many shots at such a bad rate that it just kills his team. I just don't think he does anything to help a team win games.
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Old 06-16-2008, 10:24 PM   #12824
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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cowboy has the team I'd pay to see on a daily basis. That's gotta be worth something.
+1
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Old 06-16-2008, 10:26 PM   #12825
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Exactly. As said, NPP w/ another wrong argument.
Hey....


A few guys have PMed me about secretly skipping his pick. Let me know if yo'ure interested.



Assani
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