He was still a top 3 defender at his position for most of his career. I know he's getting a lot of the credit and it's not all deserved, but he's still their best defender. In Minnesota I can't think of another good defender he might have had on that team, I guess Latrell was good but never great. I'll agree though is the team they've constructed has made them all better.

Ok I agree hes their best defender (not by much at all though) but it just tilts me hard when people (mostly anyone who isn't a Celtics fan) give all the credit for the defense to KG when in reality we had so many changes on defense from last year that helped.

First Melo, now KG? go to hell epip

heh sorries, I still do love KG hes my 4th favorite Celtic (and obv is a great player) but I do think hes overrated.

PaulP was also rated highly here over a two year stretch from 2003-2005.

Also PP vs. Posey. I agree, but I think we are getting a weird area once debates get started on who played better D on who. I think it's safe to say that a player known for good D is where you'd start, and then the rest of his game should dictate whether or not he fits your team. With perhaps special consideration given to the truly special players like Bowen..

you used the wrong pic for johnny cage imo.

I assume this was going to be a mortal kombat picture instead of an epic fail?

Bobbo you interested in trading down? Anyone in the next 4 or 5 picks interested in trading? Bobbo I know it's not easy to trade with you.

I will trade

Pierce rates better than Bowen here, too. I'm beginning to think Bowen's severely overrated. I think he's a good, solid player, but he's offensively inept and isn't like, DPOY good.

I dunno.. I know it's subjective, but every time I watch Bowen play, his movements, hands, they are all over the place. He never lets up, and also has that douchey thing going on which is like mental defense.

I want to say he's an overrated defender, but I'm impressed every time I watch him play.

Perhaps it's his lack of rebounding that I should be factoring in more...

Is there a metric for how someone's douchiness makes them a better defender? I mean, can we say, "for his looks, dirty rep, and whining, Bowen garnered 11.8 BAA* in 2007-2008, good for 3rd in the league"?

(* - "Bowens Above Average" LDO)

You guys do realize Bowen is 36 right? He is still a great defender but he was obviously better when he was in the 30-34 age range.

Aite I jus misread....u guys are talking about the 2003-2005 Bowen my bad (post is too old to edit).

This is true, but by your logic he would have been "obviously better" in the 24-28 range, which he wasnt. Some players peak late/early or whatever.

Yes but it's rare that a player peaks late/early (assuming injuries play no/little factor), most peoples common primes/peaks are like 26-32

Exactly. As said, NPP w/ another wrong argument.

I love 'Toine, but he is one of the most overrated players to ever play the game. Meaning, he sucked, but got lucky and made it to multiple all star teams. The guy who drafted him (Cowboy IIRC) has a badass team, a lot of heart, etc. but I think Antoine for BASKETBALL sake is a bad fit.

I said "wiggle" and "because there are no 4s".. what else needs to be said?

Yeah, I apologize. Once we get a few more picks I'll do my "in bold" type criticism/analysis of players. Hopefully we'll all move away from the great Posey Debate.

Wait, why isn't it easy to trade with me? I've made more trades than anyone in the draft, I think. I don't get it

No, our positions don't make it easy. I've checked the draft picks we both have not that you aren't willing.

Blah, I guess we wait another day..........

I had to google "because there are no 4s". Nonetheless, solid gold.

D

If he was overrated IRL, how about for this exercise?

Getting him @ 215 was good value IMO - although Glenn Robinson was who I was targeting w/ that pick. I wanted a wing scorer with this pick because I think that is the biggest weakness of my starting five. Its also nice that he got 8-9 rebounds a game, although that should decline somewhat since I will play him primarily as a SF and not a PF. 5 dimes a game is pretty good for a guy who played PF as well.

This also gives my lineup some flex as to style of play. Sliding Rasheed over to the 5, LJ to the 4, and inserting Antoine @ the 3 would give me 5 guys on the floor that can all run and shoot, which should serve an up-tempo style well.

Glenn Robinson would give me the same things while being a more efficient scorer, so thats why I would have prefered him. Robinson's defense & rebounding were marginally worse than Antoine's, so there is some trade-off there. All in all, I wanted 1 of the 2 guys and I'm happy with the pick.