ya cause even elite defenders who are even better than Pierce is never get torched by Lebron....

Anyway no one is arguing Pierce's defense from after the ECF run in 2002 up until before this season was elite, because he was too busy shouldering the entire offensive load and his energy was more important to be used on offense than on defense, but if he is on a team where he doesn't have to shoulder the entire offensive load, he can play elite defense and def deserves to be mentioned in the tier 2 guys I mentioned and is better than all the tier 3 guys except for possibly Lebron.

vic,

he was a very strong defensive player until around 2003 or so.

so i take it your arguemnt is that when pp wants to play d, and is forced to play d, he is one of the best.

and when he goes for yrs without shutting ppl down its just be he cant be bothered to show the effort.

but when his opponent does poor its bc pierce is all over him.

well, i suppose i lose another se argument. sigh.

ok, i will be even more blunt: how does a guy who hasnt played d in 5 yrs be one of the best?

Wft no am I speaking spanish?

My argument is when Pierce doesn't have to carry an entire team offensivley (ie has other people who can create their own shots for the team so he doesn't have to on each play) he can play great/elite defense because he doesn't have to use up all his energy on the offensive end.

tbh i find your argument a stretch. you are saying when pp is on a strong team his d is better. makes sense ofc. but i dont think that is enough to propel him to the top d list.

I don't see how it's a stretch, PP is human just like every other Bball player and although he is very well conditioned players like Kobe are even more well conditioned yet they can't play elite offense/defense on every single play so obviously Pierce can't either. I mean players get tired, that's why they don't play all 48 minutes, and to conserve energy so they can play more minutes, they had to sarcifice some of their defensive energy to use it for the offensive end.

I mean these players use up so much energy on the offensive end, especially when they have to carry the entire team because there are no other very good offensive players, so they are unable to go all out on the defensive end (it's just not possible for them unless they want to cut their minutes more) so they use more energy on offense than on defense as their offense is much more valueable to the team since their team is lacking any real good offensive options besides them.

well, ofc ppl get tired.

im just sayin, pp has never been considered a high tier defender. obv i can never win this argument bc another celt homer will show up here and say, zome pp was so nasty in 01. gg intehnet as always.

He was considered a high tier defender (probably 3rd tier) in the Obrien days ie his younger years and like I said missed out on his true elite defensive years (almost every players defensive prime assuming they stay healthy is between the years Pierce was carrying an entire teams offensive load) and proved it when he suddenly became a great defensive player once again in his 30s when he didn't have to shoulder the entire offensive load.

well, fine he was exceptional pre 2003. i didnt watch hoops much then. after fratello left and before lebron came was dead time. the tyrone hill yrs were tough.

anyway, if u say he was hibernating i will believe it. pp fo prez.

Elite defenders for this draft (past 30 years):

Kevin Garnett
Paul Pierce
Rajon Rondo
James Posey
Ray Allen
Sam Cassell
Larry Bird
Kevin McHale
Danny Ainge
Reggie Lewis

Oh and Doc Rivers.

fail, I love how you guys claim I am a Celtics homer yet I have constantly made arguments against KG, Rondo, Cassell, Bird, and Reggie Lewis in this thread. I would also never call Ray Allen/Danny Ainge's defense elite.

Putting words in your mouth amirite???

yes

I thought you liked things in your mouth though?

ban worthy imo as I def got banned for something just like that

Ya cause i'm really crying wtf, I just said it was ban worthy (and it is).

wow franchise. the build up. the timing. the technique. beautiful. like a great dutch goal imo.

Franchise,

He's right.

Do what you gotta do. Well worth it.

good posting imo.

wow, i gotta say, great work tbach.