Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Sporting Events Discussion centered around sporting events.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-15-2008, 09:22 PM   #12601
mjw0586
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
mjw0586's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 37,375
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

You have this way backwards. As someone who watches 70+ Pistons games a year, I can tell you without a doubt that Rip is a better shooter because of his off-the-ball movement. When he is forced to create for himself, his shooting suffers big time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EPiPeN11 View Post
Yes and all these players can shoot which is why they are effective off the ball movement. Anyway i'm going to get ready for the Celtics game so I will respond to ur comments later.
mjw0586 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2008, 09:30 PM   #12602
mmbt0ne
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
mmbt0ne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Coach Bud Bandwagon
Posts: 22,077
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by EPiPeN11 View Post
Ok ya i'd def rather have Posey than Josh Smith mainly because of the shooting obviously.
God help me if you're Rick Sund.
mmbt0ne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2008, 09:34 PM   #12603
capone0
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
capone0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Philly
Posts: 43,034
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

defensive wings in this draft are

Michael
Pippen
Prince
Battier
Bowen
Bell
AK47
Ron Ron
Christie
Eddie Jones

Kobe
Mckey
Nance
Robertson
Pressey
Moncrief
Posey

I personally also like:

Manu
Iggy
Marion
Gerald
PP
LBJ

Again I'm probally missing some 80s guys.

Last edited by capone0; 06-15-2008 at 09:46 PM.
capone0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2008, 09:41 PM   #12604
Jon34
grinder
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Hell's Kitchen
Posts: 686
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Posey is a very good defender. I watched the Celtics for 70+ games this year plus the playoffs. People forget that he is a big 3. He can cover 2's or 4's, but he isn't built with the quickness to cover quick 2's like Kobe or Wade. I thought he covered LeBron better than anyone else I've seen cover him. On occassion he can cover a 4, but does a better job on the Marions than true post guys like Gasol or Brand.

Is he a great defender? Yes. he is also a great team defender and takes charges better than almost anyone. Is he one of the absolute top few in the league? No. Artest, Bowen (well a couple years ago), Kobe a few years ago when he was trying, maybe a few more are better.

But to say Bell is significantly better is a not so clear. Bell is smaller and quicker. He covers a guy like Wade or Kobe better. But he would have no chance against LeBron. I would probably put them in the same vicinity, but just under the top few guys.
Jon34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2008, 09:45 PM   #12605
Franchise 60
deliciously angry
 
Franchise 60's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ferocious, isn't he?
Posts: 42,744
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I didn't even catch that. Its amazing that Posey is on that list.
Franchise 60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2008, 10:13 PM   #12606
BJLTNYK
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
BJLTNYK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 14,406
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

God this draft desparately needs picks.
BJLTNYK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2008, 10:17 PM   #12607
MEb
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
MEb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 24,705
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

lol, just got a sweet shot of how horrible posey is on offense when he's forced to do anything other than spot up shoot.
MEb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2008, 10:22 PM   #12608
Franchise 60
deliciously angry
 
Franchise 60's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ferocious, isn't he?
Posts: 42,744
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by MEbenhoe View Post
lol, just got a sweet shot of how horrible posey is on offense when he's forced to do anything other than spot up shoot.
Playing on the Celtics is way more important in this format than offensive skill.
Franchise 60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2008, 10:31 PM   #12609
ClarkNasty
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
ClarkNasty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: 10x the man Clarkmeister is
Posts: 35,385
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I think Posey has a league worst type of shooting % from inside the arc last few years.
ClarkNasty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2008, 10:39 PM   #12610
KLJ
20k hands/day
 
KLJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Topeka
Posts: 5,701
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by capone0 View Post
defensive wings in this draft are

Michael
Pippen
Prince
Battier
Bowen
Bell
AK47
Ron Ron
Christie
Eddie Jones

Kobe
Mckey
Nance
Robertson
Pressey
Moncrief
Posey
Posey? Nance?
KLJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2008, 10:56 PM   #12611
BobboFitos
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
BobboFitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 72,764
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by NopairParker View Post
I give JR credit for finding the level of selfishness to find shots in a carmelo, iverson, kleisa offense. I guess playing in Denver causes you to just wanna shoot the ball anytime you touch it, besides carter and camby does anyone pass the ball on that team ? EVen kenyon martin just jacks up 20 footers anytime he touches it.
You must not watch denver play. Iverson is actually a really good passer.
BobboFitos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2008, 10:57 PM   #12612
BobboFitos
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
BobboFitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 72,764
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by NopairParker View Post
In a league like this, taking a guy like bowen just kills your team if his sole purpose is 1 on 1 defense.

The teams in this league are so good that even if you give credit to bowen for shutting down the best wing player on a team, so what there are 4 other good scoring options usually out on the floor so he wont do much for the team defense as whole.

Compared with defensive players like Olajuwon or mourning, who will be helping out the whole team defense by stopping or altering a lot of shots in the painted area taking away a whole aspect of a teams offense.

Will bowen be altering any perimiter shots taken by any player ? Wing defenders are vastly overated and only as good as their interior help defense.

I would give the most credit to Raja bell out of that group of defenders ( bell, bowen, posey, battier ) Bell is the only one to be a great wing defender with almost no help from team defense. All the others have had at one time or a nother great team defense around them.
once again i disagree with NPP. bowen has tremendous value in this league / any league.

of those 4, battier is the most useful, and i dont think it's THAT close.
BobboFitos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2008, 11:03 PM   #12613
BobboFitos
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
BobboFitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 72,764
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seadood228 View Post
But Posey>Kersey, because Kersey actually hurts most of these teams on offense. Posey is a slight help, and plays nearly as good of defense. Dang Clark really hates James.
Remember that clark is a bulls fan, and posey is the antichrist to the bulls.
BobboFitos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2008, 11:09 PM   #12614
Franchise 60
deliciously angry
 
Franchise 60's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ferocious, isn't he?
Posts: 42,744
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobboFitos View Post
Remember that clark is a bulls fan, and posey is the antichrist to the bulls.
Yea Clark is the one being biased about Posey...
Franchise 60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2008, 11:09 PM   #12615
BobboFitos
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
BobboFitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 72,764
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franchise 60 View Post
Posey is not better than Josh Smith.
+1. I mean this is a silly statement. Yes, Posey isa better shooter, but come on, there are a bunch of other facets to winning a game.
BobboFitos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2008, 11:11 PM   #12616
Franchise 60
deliciously angry
 
Franchise 60's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ferocious, isn't he?
Posts: 42,744
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

No, the only thing that matters is hitting open three pointers.

We went over this Bobbo, get with the program.
Franchise 60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2008, 11:14 PM   #12617
ClarkNasty
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
ClarkNasty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: 10x the man Clarkmeister is
Posts: 35,385
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobboFitos View Post
Remember that clark is a bulls fan, and posey is the antichrist to the bulls.
He is? Why? This is seriously the first I've heard of this.
ClarkNasty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2008, 11:17 PM   #12618
Jack of Arcades
Jumbo Jack
 
Jack of Arcades's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: The Bastion
Posts: 23,569
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Heat/Bulls?
Jack of Arcades is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2008, 11:20 PM   #12619
BobboFitos
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
BobboFitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 72,764
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by EPiPeN11 View Post
uh no. You are saying Bowen/Bell/Battier aren't elite defenders?
They're saying they're not elite shooters, which is true, they're NOT elite shooters.
BobboFitos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2008, 11:24 PM   #12620
Victor
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Victor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 65,788
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by EPiPeN11 View Post
I don't think there is a specific # of elite defenders, however i'd call these defenders "elite" in no order:

Bowen
Bell
Battier
Prince
Posey
Kobe (if he doesn't have to shoulder the offensive load a ton)
Pierce (same as Kobe)

I could be missing a few as I did it very quickly.
lebron
Victor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2008, 11:27 PM   #12621
BobboFitos
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
BobboFitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 72,764
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by capone0 View Post
defensive wings in this draft are

Michael
Pippen
Prince
Battier
Bowen
Bell
AK47
Ron Ron
Christie
Eddie Jones

Kobe
Mckey
Nance
Robertson
Pressey
Moncrief
Posey

I personally also like:

Manu
Iggy
Marion
Gerald
PP
LBJ

Again I'm probally missing some 80s guys.

Nance and Robertson are bigmen.

and Lebron is probably above average but not in this group whatsoever.
BobboFitos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2008, 11:29 PM   #12622
BobboFitos
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
BobboFitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 72,764
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarkNasty View Post
He is? Why? This is seriously the first I've heard of this.
because he tooled on deng and hinrich
BobboFitos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2008, 11:30 PM   #12623
Victor
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Victor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 65,788
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by xxThe_Lebowskixx View Post
i dont really remember/know how the league works, but from a pure player perspective i thought mash and g.rob should have gone much earlier. mash was a sick passer for a fat guy, i think 4 or 5 dimes a game. he had so much upper body strength ala paul pierce that he looked out of shape and you would never have expected him to be so athletic/creative. i dont remember glen rob being a locker room cancer.
really the only reason big dog got the locker cancer label was bc of his holdout and subsequent insane rookie deal. the deal was the catalyst to rookie salaries being capped.

i would imagine his holdout cause animosity from vets and his contract really pissed off following rookies who would never make that much.

on the court i always thought he wasnt really chucker despite scoring so much. 4 ast aint bad.
Victor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2008, 11:32 PM   #12624
KLJ
20k hands/day
 
KLJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Topeka
Posts: 5,701
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobboFitos View Post
Nance and Robertson are bigmen.

and Lebron is probably above average but not in this group whatsoever.
wat
KLJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2008, 12:33 AM   #12625
Gary Stevenson
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Gary Stevenson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 11,604
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

it's tbach again. just scanned through this thread and have some more thoughts:

1. jesus, posey is not as good as josh smith. but who would i rather have? posey AINEC. posey isn't good offensively, but j-smoove hurts your team offensively. like really bad. posey's maybe a slight negative, but in a league with this much depth and with so many guys who can score and not turn the ball over like j-smoove does, i don't like him.

2. kidcolin, i probably disagree with 80% of your posts too.

3. i don't think clark has ever answered a question i have asked him. it's not like he ignores them, he just answers them in a way that either is (a) incomprehensible (IE doesnt make sense gramatically to the point where it's illegible) or (b) answers the question in a way that doesn't make sense.

most recent example was (paraphrased):
tbach: "Clark, what player picked after Posey would fit better on my team?"
clark: "I think lots of players are better than Posey"

great posting.


4. the amount that posey is underrated is sickening. i'm going to risk sounding like mark jackson, but posey does soooo many little things. and yes, he's up there as one of the best perimeter defenders in the nba today.
Gary Stevenson is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:22 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive