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Old 06-15-2008, 06:42 PM   #12526
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

people seem to be forgetting that the reason that there is only 1-3 stars per team is not because that's the optimal balance between stars (read: creators) and role-players, it's because there isn't enough of these stars to go around.
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Old 06-15-2008, 06:43 PM   #12527
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by MEbenhoe View Post
Here's an interesting concept for you. You don't have to be a good or great 3 pt shooter as a wing to be good at offense. Also, please with regards to your thoughts on elgin baylor.
You do in order to be good at off the ball offense (unless ur bigmen can hit shots/3s and you can go inside and play the role of a bigman near the hoop), obviously if you are the one constantly creating ur own shot u dont need to shoot the 3 but when you don't have the ball, being able to hit the 3 (or even a midrange jump shot) is hugeeeeeeeeeeee.

Can't comment that much on Elgin Baylor, but if I'd have to guess he was a ton more effective with the ball in his hands than without it.
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Old 06-15-2008, 06:43 PM   #12528
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Thats why it goes a team of 3-4 stars and say 8 Battiers/Bowens > A team full of 11-12 Carmelos > A team full of 11-12 Battiers/Bowens
A team of 12 Carmelos would beat a team of 4 Carmelos and 8 Bowens, probably pretty handily.

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Originally Posted by MEbenhoe View Post
Here's an interesting concept for you. You don't have to be a good or great 3 pt shooter as a wing to be good at offense. Also, please with regards to your thoughts on elgin baylor.
He hasn't seen him play ldo (neither have I).
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Old 06-15-2008, 06:44 PM   #12529
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by KLJ View Post
people seem to be forgetting that the reason that there is only 1-3 stars per team is not because that's the optimal balance between stars (read: creators) and role-players, it's because there isn't enough of these stars to go around.
huh? There are def still more all-stars avaliable and it's round 6
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Old 06-15-2008, 06:44 PM   #12530
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I'm going to need a list of "stars" to fully understand this incredibly ******ed debate plz.
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Old 06-15-2008, 06:45 PM   #12531
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by KLJ View Post
people seem to be forgetting that the reason that there is only 1-3 stars per team is not because that's the optimal balance between stars (read: creators) and role-players, it's because there isn't enough of these stars to go around.
Yes. That's exactly the point I made earlier and I obv agree 100%. People are imitating what they see in the NBA, but its based not on some awesome ultimo strategy, its based on scarcity.
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Old 06-15-2008, 06:45 PM   #12532
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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A team of 12 Carmelos would beat a team of 4 Carmelos and 8 Bowens, probably pretty handily.
lol change Bowen to Battier and I wish there was a way to put money on this because I would be willing to wager a lot that it wouldn't.
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Old 06-15-2008, 06:47 PM   #12533
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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There was a time when the fifth best player on a good team was competent to make plays with the ball in his hands...
Amen to this. Though current rules are extremely "superstar" friendly (I actually believe that the Stern and co did this intentionally to create more big names in the game, but that is a whole other topic). In the 80's you really needed 5 guys who could make a play on offense. The was more ball movement and the game was more fluid. Maybe players weren't as strong and fast back then, so defenses recovered slower, and therefor the ball movement led to a more balanced offense. In the 90's the game was a lot more about matchups. It was tougher to double team, and you couldn't play a zone where a weakside shotblocker could camp out and help. So if you played a 5'9" PG, the other team's 6'3" PG could post him up all day. Now post play from guards is basically irrelevant. Defensively, teams were as bad as their weakest link. Nowadays a good scheme or a dominant big man can make a team tough to beat.
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Old 06-15-2008, 06:48 PM   #12534
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by EPiPeN11 View Post
huh? There are def still more all-stars avaliable and it's round 6
1-3 stars per team in the current NBA.
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Old 06-15-2008, 06:50 PM   #12535
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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lol change Bowen to Battier and I wish there was a way to put money on this because I would be willing to wager a lot that it wouldn't.
Since it's obviously impossible to simulate, I would be interested in putting a large amount of money on this, outlining our arguments (maybe over a week-long debate), and then taking a vote to decide.

Battiers exist because there aren't enough Carmelos in the world, not because he's great.
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Old 06-15-2008, 06:52 PM   #12536
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Since it's obviously impossible to simulate, I would be interested in putting a large amount of money on this, outlining our arguments (maybe over a week-long debate), and then taking a vote to decide.

Battier exists because there isn't enough Carmelos, not because he's great.
I would never agree to a vote to decide this as I don't think popular opinion would be right.
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Old 06-15-2008, 06:52 PM   #12537
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by KLJ View Post
Since it's obviously impossible to simulate, I would be interested in putting a large amount of money on this, outlining our arguments (maybe over a week-long debate), and then taking a vote to decide.

Battiers exist because there aren't enough Carmelos in the world, not because he's great.
Email the question to your favorite pundit(s) and see what they say?
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Old 06-15-2008, 06:54 PM   #12538
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by EPiPeN11 View Post
I would never agree to a vote to decide this as I don't think popular opinion would be right.
Limit it to knowledgeable NBA posters, assuming that you're worried about the pro-star bias among casual NBA fans due to propaganda.

It's easy to make statements (and claim to be able to put money on it) when it's impossible to prove.
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Old 06-15-2008, 06:55 PM   #12539
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Limit it to knowledgeable NBA posters, assuming that you're worried about the pro-star bias among casual NBA fans due to propaganda
No I don't think the ones you'd consider knowledgeable NBA posters would be right on this topic.
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Old 06-15-2008, 06:57 PM   #12540
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I'd much rather have Josh Smith on a team of stars, a team without stars, a team with moons, anything.
+a million
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Old 06-15-2008, 06:58 PM   #12541
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Btw, something I left out of the initial writeup that I like about the flexibility Kersey gives me. If I'm facing a team that doesn't have a big offensive Center I can send out a lineup of Moore/Ray/Kiki/Kersey/Brand and run a very high paced offense that would be pretty sick imo.
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Old 06-15-2008, 06:58 PM   #12542
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by EPiPeN11 View Post
No I don't think the ones you'd consider knowledgeable NBA posters would be right on this topic.
So if the knowledgeable NBA posters wouldn't agree, and the casual NBA posters wouldn't agree, how can you think that you'd be right? You seem intelligent enough to realize that when there is an overwhelming majority (and not just amongst the uninformed masses), they're usually right.

But then again, as it seems a theme throughout this thread, everybody else other than you is pretty much always wrong.

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Old 06-15-2008, 07:01 PM   #12543
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by EPiPeN11 View Post
Since sethypoo has disapeared from this thread, Clark and all you other guys arguing against me, I will ask you the same question:

For a role player who plays off the ball and plays the SG/SF position, what are the 2 most important qualities for them to have?
How about the ability to not be just a role player?
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Old 06-15-2008, 07:01 PM   #12544
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by KLJ View Post
So if the knowledgeable NBA posters wouldn't agree, and the casual NBA posters wouldn't agree, how can you think that you'd be right? You seem intelligent to realize that when there is an overwhelming majority (and not just amongst the uninformed masses), they're usually right.

But then again, as it seems a theme throughout this thread, everybody else other than you is pretty much always wrong.

Just like the majority of these knowledgeable posters thought the Lakers would easily beat the Celtics (I thought the Celtics had a slight edge), and the majority of these posters laughed at me when I claimed the Red Sox had a 5:1 shot of winning the World Series, a 3:1 shot of the Patriots winning the superbowl, and a 15:1 shot of the Celtics winning the NBA championship (all of this was right before the start of the NFL season) and all of these knowledgeable posters thought the odds were much worse than mine.

EDIT: I also agree with this forum on like 95-99 percent of the things, just not on a few things, it's not like it's common that I disagree with mostly everyone, it just looks that way since it usually goes into long drawn out arguments when I do.
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Old 06-15-2008, 07:05 PM   #12545
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by EPiPeN11 View Post
Wow you really didn't get what I was saying, of course a team full of only Bowen/Battiers wouldn't beat anyone, they need shot creators.

That's why a team of BOTH stars and players like Bowen/Battiers is the most ideal.

You of course need ur stars (infact they are the most important) and that's why these players should have been taken in the first 3-4 rounds, but you also need your spotup shooters who can also defend.

Thats why it goes a team of 3-4 stars and say 8 Battiers/Bowens > A team full of 11-12 Carmelos > A team full of 11-12 Battiers/Bowens
And you don't get what we're saying: A team of stars is most ideal, provided they are well rounded. Yes obviously with 10 Carmelo Anthonys on your team, you'd want some role players who could play better D and shot the 3 ball better. However, with well rounded stars that can do that then you just want stars.
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Old 06-15-2008, 07:07 PM   #12546
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Epeen:

You are just condesending + rude. I'm just totally sick of everything that you say - its all toxic, self-serving crap. Really.
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Old 06-15-2008, 07:07 PM   #12547
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
And you don't get what we're saying: A team of stars is most ideal, provided they are well rounded. Yes obviously with 10 Carmelo Anthonys on your team, you'd want some role players who could play better D and shot the 3 ball better. However, with well rounded stars that can do that then you just want stars.
You are misunderstanding my point, obviously I want a team with well rounded stars who can all play defense/shoot over a team of stars/battiers.

It was the star on a team with a lot of stars (and said star wasn't a top 3-4 offensive player on the team), who couldn't shoot or play defense where I would rather have someone like Battier in their place.
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Old 06-15-2008, 07:13 PM   #12548
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by KLJ View Post
So if the knowledgeable NBA posters wouldn't agree, and the casual NBA posters wouldn't agree, how can you think that you'd be right? You seem intelligent enough to realize that when there is an overwhelming majority (and not just amongst the uninformed masses), they're usually right.

But then again, as it seems a theme throughout this thread, everybody else other than you is pretty much always wrong.

I've been through this debate with EPip before. Basically he always thinks hes right and never changes his mind on anything ever.
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Old 06-15-2008, 07:14 PM   #12549
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Franchise 60 View Post
This thread has taken basically everything that is underrated or slightly underrated in basketball and just run away with all of it.
perfect.
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Old 06-15-2008, 07:14 PM   #12550
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

SE could use a survivor contest imo
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