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Old 06-15-2008, 02:13 AM   #12376
Franchise 60
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

So I'm watching Godfather 3 cause its on HBO, and I havn't seen it ina while (cause it blows). I turned it on in the middle.

Andy Garcia is making out with Pacino/Coppala's daughter, they are cousins right?
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Old 06-15-2008, 02:15 AM   #12377
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

yup
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Old 06-15-2008, 02:18 AM   #12378
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

They need to re-edit the movie to just remove any appearance of Sophia Coppola.
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Old 06-15-2008, 02:19 AM   #12379
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

They need to re-edit the movie to where it doesn't exist anymore.
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Old 06-15-2008, 02:20 AM   #12380
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I think one of the most shameful things about my life is that the only one of the godfathers I've watched the whole way through is 3. I bet I'm one of the only people in the world who can say that.
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Old 06-15-2008, 02:22 AM   #12381
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Old 06-15-2008, 02:25 AM   #12382
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

GF3 is a great example of how Pacino's acting changed after the 70s (debate that went on like 200 pages ago).

In the first two he plays it super subtle and awesomely, and in this one hes jumping around all happy about his gay son singing.
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Old 06-15-2008, 02:27 AM   #12383
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Yeah, completely. But remove Sophia Coppola and the movie is still instantly 10000x better.
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Old 06-15-2008, 02:29 AM   #12384
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Yea, Winona Ryder would have improved the movie tremendously. Sucks she got injured.
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Old 06-15-2008, 02:31 AM   #12385
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I just watched the first GF for the first time like 3 weeks ago. I bought the whole set for ~3 bucks bootleg style in Malaysia. Is II really good? I liked I a lot. James Caan is the ****ing man.
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Old 06-15-2008, 03:37 AM   #12386
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingmoose View Post
I wish we could name undrafted players, because one of the best 3-point shooters ever only got like 6 ppg for his career precisely because he couldn't do anything else. If he had gotten a high usage rate at his TS% he'd have gone a long time ago but he couldn't get a high usage rate because they just didn't leave him when the playmaker (whoever that was) broke the defense.
I'll go ahead and say he is not "one of the best," but THE best. And I agree that if he actually could do that all the time, he would've seen a ton of mpg. but alas, he could not.
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Old 06-15-2008, 03:39 AM   #12387
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

weighing in here, as well, i feel bowen > ben gordon, but there are a few teams i'd rather have ben gordon. it's certainly not more than 1 or 2 ">s" though. i also think bowen > stack. stack and ben gordon are different players, but prefer ben gordon. (different about how they accomplish what they do best)
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Old 06-15-2008, 05:10 AM   #12388
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Franchise 60 View Post
Ben Gordon is one of the reasons JR Smith was a really pick
good point imo.
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Old 06-15-2008, 05:52 AM   #12389
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

About Bruce Bowen:
Quote:
While Bowen will never be confused for a good offensive player, his excellent 3-point shooting (.391 for his career) means that defenses will not be able to double off him, so he will not hurt me on that end of the floor
Let's not get ridiculous. He will hurt you offensively, like he has been hurting the SPurs for years.
The only reason he's shooting a decent looking % is because teams double off him all the time.
He's probably never shot a three with a hand in his face during his whole time with Duncan
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Old 06-15-2008, 06:01 AM   #12390
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Good point horizon imo
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Old 06-15-2008, 08:05 AM   #12391
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Gordon was the guy I was thinking of when I said there's a guy who is clearly better than JR Smith in that role.
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Old 06-15-2008, 08:44 AM   #12392
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Kersey was v high up on my list. Durability was a huge plus for him. He was maddingly inefficient though - poor FT shooter, no 3pt range, yet still found 13 fga/36. one note though is he's a near foul box.
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Old 06-15-2008, 09:52 AM   #12393
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack of Arcades View Post
List examples of people who fit this description. Also, list bad picks who you felt were made only on the basis of TS% and TS% alone and why these were bad picks.

Because it's getting really annoying when you're throwing this thing out there - and you're not the only one - who's trying to pretend like so many people are worshiping at the altar of TS%.
huh I didn't bash TS% in any of my last 15 posts, but I will give an example of what I was saying.

Carmelo Anthony before this year. A team full of him on offense wouldn't be that good, because they all need the ball in their hands to be effective. Carmelo Anthony is the type of player i'm reffering to that needs the ball in his hands to be effective.

Once he is off the ball (doesn't have the ball in his hands) his value drops a ton because he can't shoot a 3.

Now a team with say 3 Carmelo Anthony's and 8 Shane Battiers (a very good off the ball player) would do better than a team of 11 Carmelo Anthony's. That is my whole point, there is 2 type of offense, on the ball and off the ball offense and players are better at one or another (and some are very good/great at both).

Last edited by EPiPeN11; 06-15-2008 at 09:59 AM.
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Old 06-15-2008, 09:57 AM   #12394
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by lapoker17 View Post
umm i might say that gordon>bowen.
On a team with a lot of stars? No way.

On a team with no stars? Of course.

That's my whole point, most of our teams should have at least 3-4 stars by now who can all create their own shot so the value of Ben Gordon goes way down.
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Old 06-15-2008, 10:02 AM   #12395
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by horizon View Post
About Bruce Bowen:


Let's not get ridiculous. He will hurt you offensively, like he has been hurting the SPurs for years.
The only reason he's shooting a decent looking % is because teams double off him all the time.
He's probably never shot a three with a hand in his face during his whole time with Duncan
lol he won't hurt u offensivley, infact he helps u since he is a great 3pt shooter from the corner (although other off the ball shooters help u more since they can shoot 3's from more than 1 spot, but it's not a huge deal).

People don't realize they don't need Bruce Bowen to do anything on offense but space the floor and knock down 3's, they already have 3 shot creators in Duncan, Manu, Parker.
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Old 06-15-2008, 10:06 AM   #12396
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Gordon's a great pick, but I think JR is a better sixth man. If we compare Ben Gordon's 24 year old season to JR's season last year(23 year old):

Per 36 minutes

Gordon - 21 PTS / .558TS / 3.3 AST / .9 STL / 2.4 TO
Smith - 23 PTS / .603TS / 3.2 AST / 1.6 STL / 2.8 TO

JR was more efficient and scored more points on a per minute basis. JR obviously didn't get the minutes that Ben had, but his splits show that his numbers got better the more minutes he played. JR is bigger which should lead to less defensive mismatches, and according to 82 games scored inside twice as often, whilst shooting a much higher percentage on inside shots (.595 vs. .475). Overall I think this makes JR tougher to defend.

LOL defensive mismatches... that didn't come out right.
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Old 06-15-2008, 10:09 AM   #12397
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I'm trying to get you to list clarify general statements you made:

1. "People on here use TS% waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much" and
2. "I honestly just think a lot of people in this draft don't realize we are playing with only one basketball just like in the real nba."

I'm not sayign I disagree with you, but it's easy to say stuff like this without listing examples. Say who you're talking about.
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Old 06-15-2008, 10:10 AM   #12398
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

It's tbach24 and I have some quick thoughts before I go back to raping turningstone:

1. Bowen was a sick pick. If you could start him at 28 or whatever the age was he started being awesome, he would've been early 3rd and I don't think that's a reach. The only reason I didn't take him over Posey was because Bowen took so long to heat up and it just didn't make sense with Hill/Kemp/Sabonis.

2. Ben Gordon isn't nearly as good as JR Smith, and to put him in the same sentence as Bruce Bowen is a travesty IMO. I can't imagine wanting Ben Gordon over Bowen unless your team has no offense. Are you all forgetting that Gordon's too small to guard shooting guards, so it's very tough to put him out there with a lot of lineups? I mean, he's PG sized so you're basically putting two PG's on the floor on defense. I really can't imagine saying he'd be better than Bowen on any team. It's insane.
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Old 06-15-2008, 10:13 AM   #12399
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Clark,

Anyone fit better than Posey yet on my team? I'm still looking forward to the 8th round when you get someone as good as Posey.
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Old 06-15-2008, 10:14 AM   #12400
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack of Arcades View Post
I'm trying to get you to list clarify general statements you made:

1. "People on here use TS% waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much" and
2. "I honestly just think a lot of people in this draft don't realize we are playing with only one basketball just like in the real nba."

I'm not sayign I disagree with you, but it's easy to say stuff like this without listing examples. Say who you're talking about.
I just addressed point #2 above with my Carmelo Anthony comments.

On #1 like I said players who shoot mostly 3's, 3pt percentage is more important than TS%. Also people don't realize someone who creates their own shot more (has the ball in their hands) will have a lower TS% than someone who just takes open jump shots. TS% also doesn't show what type of player u are, ie. a team full of high TS% people who can't shoot the 3 and all need the ball in their hands to be effective wouldn't work. TS% also doesn't show players who turn down open shots which hurts their offense, but doesn't hurt their TS% (assuming they give the ball back to the star).
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