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Old 06-12-2008, 02:46 PM   #12076
capone0
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Can he take back the pick?
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Old 06-12-2008, 02:46 PM   #12077
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Lewis refused to take a drug test following his playoff collapse, so I'm going to say that he had something to hide.
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Old 06-12-2008, 02:46 PM   #12078
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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A third of his team is made up of guys dead or kicked out of the league by 27. I mean, I have an injury prone team, but that's ridiculous.
Why is it ridiculous? Because you are doing to make my guy die at 27 and kick my other guy out of the league for substance abuse in a hypothetical league? lol Kudos
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Old 06-12-2008, 02:47 PM   #12079
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I found a good logo for your team big:

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Old 06-12-2008, 02:49 PM   #12080
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Why is it ridiculous? Because you are doing to make my guy die at 27 and kick my other guy out of the league for substance abuse in a hypothetical league? lol Kudos
Well b/c there are a million other talented players with long careers yet you take the guys who had tremendous upside yet die or get kicked out of the league. It's not like there aren't a ton of talented players with long careers not left that are maybe slightly less talented then the guys you picked. Whatever floats your boat.
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Old 06-12-2008, 02:50 PM   #12081
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Lol, I think we need Clark to edit that into any of his team writeups.
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Old 06-12-2008, 02:50 PM   #12082
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I'm not biiiiigchips!
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Old 06-12-2008, 02:52 PM   #12083
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Well b/c there are a million other talented players with long careers yet you take the guys who had tremendous upside yet die or get kicked out of the league. It's not like there aren't a ton of talented players with long careers not left that are maybe slightly less talented then the guys you picked. Whatever floats your boat.
I'd take talent over health in a heartbeat (as you can tell by my team) Longevity is a facet, but how exactly do you measure that in this draft?
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Old 06-12-2008, 02:54 PM   #12084
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Who has factual information that he was on coke, and the coke contributed to his heart failure? It's all hear say as far as I know.....
I was reading up on the whole Reggie Lewis debacle once the pick was made. this Basically, his heart had some pretty serious damage.

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Autopsy revealed that his heart was abnormal, enlarged and extensively scarred.
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A couple of years after his death, several credible reports came out after his death that Lewis was a frequent cocaine user and lied about taken the drug when asked by physicians. While autopsy showed no sign of cocaine in the body, studies are now showing increasing data that cocaine is not only a trigger for acute myocardial infarction but also for cardiomyopathy as well. A study of 84 cocaine abusers who were asymptomatic for cardiomyopathy was done. After a 2 month abstinence for the drug, the patients were given a thorough exam. Six patients were found to have left ventricle dysfunction and six more had depressed left ventricle function. (Bertelot, 1990) This despite all these patients were asymptomatic and healthy with no evidence of myocardial dysfunction by physical examination. Assad Mouhaffel states in a recent manuscript that, "Depression of myocardial systolic function has been attributed to a direct toxic effect of high levels of circulatory catecholamines on cardiac myocytes. Recurrent exposure of the myocardium to cocaine induced catecholamine excess may result in myocarditis, a precursor to cardiomyopathy." (Mouhaffel, 1995) Cocaine, of course, increases blocks the reuptake of catecholamines, norepinephrine and epinephrine, at nerve endings thereby increasing their circulatory concentration.
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Old 06-12-2008, 02:55 PM   #12085
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I'd take talent over health in a heartbeat (as you can tell by my team) Longevity is a facet, but how exactly do you measure that in this draft?
You look at guys who never get hurt and assume they probally won't get hurt in this league.
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Old 06-12-2008, 02:56 PM   #12086
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I might be using too much of a fantasy sports mentality on this which is why I go with the more risky picks than the easy choices. I guess we shall see how it all plays out eventually.
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Old 06-12-2008, 02:58 PM   #12087
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Look, the Reggie Lewis pick I can understand, you get four solid seasons out of him and then he dies, unfortunately for him. Since this is a hypothetical league, I don't think we need to burden ourselves with ethical quandaries about whether he should be able to play since we know about his heart condition, play him till he drops. But Tarpley, even if you wanted to play him, you can't, since his post-23 years were injury and suspension filled, and best case scenario maybe he plays slightly more games before the drugs take over. Longevity might not be the easiest thing to measure, but when a guy can't stay on the court at all, that's a pretty good clue that he doesn't have it.
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Old 06-12-2008, 03:43 PM   #12088
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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What? Reggie Lewis didn't have a fully functioning heart that just randomly stopped. He was on cocaine.
was this ever proven? I always thought thought this was rumored, but never proven.

D
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Old 06-12-2008, 04:33 PM   #12089
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

can never say for sure, but here's some evidence

due to cocaine use?
http://www.ronsuskind.com/newsite/ar...es/000038.html
"Dr. Munn guided the others, but there wasn't much need: On the left ventricle of Mr. Lewis's heart were three black patches -- dead spots. Such dead tissue is most commonly caused by arteriosclerosis, mostly in older patients, or by viruses, drug use or a previous heart attack."

also tons of family history with heart problems
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...5AC0A965958260
"According to The Globe, Lewis apparently told his doctor, Gilbert Mudge, that one of his two brothers was born with a hole in his heart and had undergone open heart surgery in Baltimore when he was 4 years old.

But, The Globe said, Lewis failed to tell Mudge and the "dream team" of 12 doctors who had previously examined him that he was born with a heart murmur that had been diagnosed at a Baltimore clinic and detected in elementary school physicals. Apparently, the murmur went away when he was 12.

Lewis also concealed that his mother, Inez Reid, has had two heart attacks, one of them when she was 17, according to The Globe. "
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Old 06-12-2008, 04:39 PM   #12090
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

KC,

Rd 5 writeup and starting lineups plskthx
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Old 06-12-2008, 04:46 PM   #12091
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

yeah I started it last night and got a nice foundation laid out, but I blew it and forgot to email it to myself so I can finish it during lunch at work. I'll finish it after Cs curbstomp the lakeshow.
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Old 06-12-2008, 05:13 PM   #12092
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

See my whole problem with the "he may not get a coke addiction/alcohol addiction/injury/whatever in this league" argument is that you guys supposedly get these players at the talent level they had when they were 24. You think that the coaches that had these players with injuries/addictions/off the court problems didn't try to prevent them as hard as possible? I mean sometimes a guy comes back "too soon" from an injury - fine. But I don't buy that a guy "might not get an addiction" in your league because of more counselling or something. It is silly if you get to draft them at 24, and then see the future as to how their lives will pan out. You can't follow guys around 24/7 and make sure they don't do stupid ****. Same goes for injuries - I think that making it this way really just throws a huge monkey wrench into any sort of evaluation that can be done with these teams. I understand freak injuries, like car crashes, being discounted as being improbable...but guys who hurt themselves over the course of typical wear and tear in an NBA season will get injured imo
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Old 06-12-2008, 06:18 PM   #12093
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

+1, kind of.

i fully agree with regards to off the court things, but what's your stance on guys like Elton Brand? his recent injury is largely not a result of his playing style, conditioning, or injury history.

players that have a smattering of 65, 70, 60, 75, etc. games played in seasons (and have a bunch of nagging injuries) are injury prone, sure. there are tons of players though that had one or two odd (or simply devastating) injuries that they weren't necessarily pre-disposed for, and then durable afterwards.
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Old 06-12-2008, 07:09 PM   #12094
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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+1, kind of.

i fully agree with regards to off the court things, but what's your stance on guys like Elton Brand? his recent injury is largely not a result of his playing style, conditioning, or injury history.

players that have a smattering of 65, 70, 60, 75, etc. games played in seasons (and have a bunch of nagging injuries) are injury prone, sure. there are tons of players though that had one or two odd (or simply devastating) injuries that they weren't necessarily pre-disposed for, and then durable afterwards.
It all depends on the exact nature of the injury. I believe you can be more disposed to things like ACL tears based on genetics...I don't think you can be more disposed to a broken leg as result of a 250 pounder landing on you(although your recovery time is certainly part of your genetics). I also don't buy that "you wouldn't bring him back too quickly" unless there is documented evidence that doctors at the time thought the player "came back too quickly" BEFORE he got re-injured.

I'd also like to say that a few of the huge peak, very short career guys taken in recent rounds make the Penny pick look especially bad. His peak and the nature of his injury really don't strike me as a much better risk/reward combo than some of the others taken much later.
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Old 06-12-2008, 07:25 PM   #12095
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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See my whole problem with the "he may not get a coke addiction/alcohol addiction/injury/whatever in this league" argument is that you guys supposedly get these players at the talent level they had when they were 24. You think that the coaches that had these players with injuries/addictions/off the court problems didn't try to prevent them as hard as possible?
I think that this is especially true with regards to the addiction/mental aspect. Freak injuries can be somewhat discounted (although I believe they should still remain a factor). Addiction/mental problems are different - those should be treated as inevitable IMO.
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Old 06-12-2008, 07:45 PM   #12096
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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The point is it was just bad luck that Drazen got into a car wreck he was not pre-dispositioned to get in car wreck any more than any of us are. Likewise I believe Reggie Lewis was probally pre-dispositioned to have heart issues then again there is thought that he had cocaine issues as well that ruined his heart. So your in the same boat with Reggie that you are in with Tarpley. With Tarpley in this your pretty much pre-dispositioned to have a drug issue and injury issues. I guess you can theorize he can get away from them, but that's your call I guess.
I disagree with your first sentence, but otherwise I agree with the rest of the post.
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Old 06-12-2008, 07:46 PM   #12097
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Originally Posted by Franchise 60 View Post
We should probably draft more than 9 guys so he can be able to field a starting lineup.
Just to reiterate since nobody has bumped my post like I asked, we are drafting 10 players and no coaches due to the vote.
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Old 06-12-2008, 07:47 PM   #12098
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Still interested in trading up, anyone looking to move down shoot me a PM
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Old 06-12-2008, 07:51 PM   #12099
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

nm.

I ignored all the bickering early on.. does Assani's claim that Drazen was more likely to die in a car crash than other NBA players have anything to back it up or is it just a classic Assani level?
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Old 06-12-2008, 08:06 PM   #12100
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Round 6 Pick 203 - Josh Childress



He's awesome. Like, the second best player on the Hawks at present awesome. Horford will be better, probably as soon as next year, but he wasn't this year. He can play the 1, 2 or 3 giving me the perfect 6th man. He shoots lights out, TS% of .626, .586 and .647 in the past 3 years. He's been a 40% 3 pt shooter over the past 3 years and has steadily improved his free throw percentage. Hopefully i can swing Mark Price as an assistant because Chill was shooting > 90% early in the year after working with him over the offseason.

His PER has improved every season, from 15.2 to 15.8 to 16.2 to 17.8. His rebounding percentages took a big dip this year, but that's a function of the role he's playing on the team now with Horford underneath.

And he does all this while being an unselfish player who can fit into his role on a team.

As for me relegating myself to former and current Hawks, let's just say that Priest Lauderdale is still on my short list. I REALLLLLLY wanted Smitty and was sad to see him go 10 picks earlier. Probably my second biggest disappointment after Camby.

Also, it should be noted that an entire current starting 5 for the Atlanta Hawks has been drafted, with only one due to what we could consider a bias source.

98 - Joe Johnson (2)
101 - Al Horford (5)
120 - Josh Smith (4)
150 - Mike Bibby (1)
203 - Josh Childress (3)

And people in Atlanta still want to argue that Mike Woodson deserves a job.
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