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Old 06-12-2008, 12:10 AM   #11976
tbach24
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by kidcolin View Post
tbach,

that's one of the worst posts in this thread.
and your post was very worthwhile KC. thanks for playing. anyways, eff all the haters, you'll see next year if jr smith gets out of that dump of a team in denver and gets to go play with san antonio.
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Old 06-12-2008, 12:18 AM   #11977
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Calling JR a ******ed pick is, well, ******ed.

As someone who's watched JR Smith play every game this season, I feel that I can comment on his game.

First of all, the JR Smith after the ASB is not the same guy that people perceive. Second, he's really not injury prone. The reason it looks like he missed several games is because he had a bunch of DNPs this year while he was in Karl's doghouse. Last year he had arthroscopic and came back before expectations. Casual fans have also labeled him cancer which is not necessarily true. He's no angel off the court, but on the court and in the locker rooms things are much different. He's been a fan-favorite, and is usually labeled as the hardest worker in practice. True he was banished in GK's doghouse for a while, but during that time Nugs fans got to see something that the national media didn't catch. JR has always been the teams biggest cheerleader off the bench, and despite his minutes being wittled down to pretty much zero, he cheered more for his teammates. When being interviewed by our local radio guys, he declined to comment on his benching, instead turning it around and saying something like "I'm just working really hard right now to be ready for when my name is called."

So during a Miami road game where the Nugs were sucking, GK gives JR some early burn, in which he goes off and the Nugs win. Karl then began inserting him in earlier and earlier, and what Nugs fans saw was a complete turnaround in his play. Sure he took a lot of 3's, but what was most encouraging was his driving. I doubt that many people realized how incredibly awesome he is at driving and finishing, and that coupled with his 3 point shooting makes him impossible to guard. I'll even go so far as to say that he's one of 2 players in the league that can be that filthy from the line and drive with the best of them, the other one being Manny.

His post ASB numbers are phenomenal:

26 PP/36
.493 FG%
.620+ TS
.400+ 3 PT FG
3.3 AST/36
2.4 TO/36
1.9 ST/36

Defensively he works hard, but you'd never hear me say that he's a good defender. He's actually a + defender on the Nugs according to 82 games, but that really isn't saying a whole lot. His biggest problem is that, like AI and Melo, he gambles too much. Whether or not this can be fixed is up in the air, but the fact that he's one of the better defenders on his team would lead me to believe that he does have upside on defense.

What makes JR such a tough cover here is that he has RANGE, not 3 point range, but range from 30 feet. I know it looks like he's taking bad shots when he's chucking it 30 feet, but can you argue with someone who shoots that high of a percentage and takes it to the rack? Those long three's are going open everyone else's game, because JR forces defenders to start guarding him way outside.. and when they do that he just blows right by.

Here's a scouting vid from a pickaxenroll. I know it's a blog, but it's one of the more respected Nugz sites. It talks about the improvements he's made, and gives some examples from the Phoenix game. Also here's an article from the Denver Post which talks about JR's maturity over the past year.

In summation, GKA is at-worst getting an super-efficient volume scorer who has an above average number of assists and turnovers. Off the court he still has a lot of room to grow, but that can be said about several players taken before him.

In the history of the game, how many other 22 year olds have averaged 40%+ from downtown, 60%+ True Shooting, and more than 20PP/36 Minutes? I'll give you a hint, it's less than two.

Oh and &*%( you GKA.

Last edited by Seadood228; 06-12-2008 at 12:24 AM.
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Old 06-12-2008, 12:20 AM   #11978
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by ClarkNasty View Post
He's ******ed (JR). Bad player on offense (offense is more than just shooting), terrible on D, killed a guy, bad locker room guy, I mean, what's to like? That he's good at HORSE? Meh.
You got 1 of 3 right at least.
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Old 06-12-2008, 12:23 AM   #11979
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I change my mind, JR Smith should have went before Kobe.
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Old 06-12-2008, 12:26 AM   #11980
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

yeah I'm just gonna go ahead and +1 seadood's post. especially the part about range. in warmups (yah warmups hahahah) when he was in HS, he was jump shooting from beyond half court. not chucking, it was a legit 3 point stroke. and he was hitting all of them. this guy has INSANE range.
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Old 06-12-2008, 12:27 AM   #11981
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Oh and I forgot to say, JR Smith has been considered a GREAT locker room guy, and the coaches love him. Clark really has no clue what he's talking about on this one, sorry but I gotta call it like I see it.

Tbach - Not sure I'm with you on the Kobe comparo though. I really think he has a game similar to Manu. Great talent and truly stellar long range shooting, coupled with moments of poor decision making.
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Old 06-12-2008, 12:27 AM   #11982
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Find me other players that can score 23 per 36 (or even 12.3 in 19.2) at a TS% of 60% and I'll be very impressed. Not to mention he does it in the Denver offense which is perhaps one of the ugliest offenses I've ever seen.
Before we continue on, let me ask you to elaborate on your statement of "JR Smith is one of the best offensive players in the NBA today." By "one of the best" what exactly do you mean? Top 10? Top 20?
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Old 06-12-2008, 12:28 AM   #11983
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Half court in HS isn't the same as hc in the Pro's.

But for real, overrate him more. We are about to break records.
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Old 06-12-2008, 12:28 AM   #11984
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Last year he had arthroscopic and came back before expectations.
this pretty much makes him injury prone, or at least a liability.
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Old 06-12-2008, 12:29 AM   #11985
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Great locker room guy and the coaches love him? What about that part with him being in the doghouse? I guess the head coach doesn't really count huh?
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Old 06-12-2008, 12:29 AM   #11986
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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When I think of JR Smith I honestly think he's very similar to Kobe.
I have nothing to say except:


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Old 06-12-2008, 12:32 AM   #11987
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Franchise 60 View Post
Great locker room guy and the coaches love him? What about that part with him being in the doghouse? I guess the head coach doesn't really count huh?
Read the article I linked.

And I find it hard to call him overrated compared to many that went before him.
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Old 06-12-2008, 12:33 AM   #11988
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by tbach24 View Post
Once Shaq left Kobe, Kobe never really got it together until this season.
wtf???

27.6 on 56.3% TS
5.9 rebounds
6.0 assists
1.3 steals
0.8 blocks

35.4 points on 55.9% TS
5.3 rebounds
4.5 assists
1.8 steals
0.4 blocks
All Defensive 1st Team

31.6 points on 58.0% TS
5.7 rebounds
5.4 assists
1.4 steals
0.5 blocks
All Defensive 1st Team
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Old 06-12-2008, 12:35 AM   #11989
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Before we continue on, let me ask you to elaborate on your statement of "JR Smith is one of the best offensive players in the NBA today." By "one of the best" what exactly do you mean? Top 10? Top 20?
Top 15-20 2/3's in the league. I don't want to make any reaches because he hasn't proven that he can do it for longer than 20 mpg, but if he goes to like 20 ppg at a 58% TS% he'd gotta be top 10, and I really don't think that'd be much of a stretch.
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Old 06-12-2008, 12:38 AM   #11990
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I know this is a crazy question and all, but I'll go with it. Um, why doesn't he get more minutes for the Nuggets? I mean its clear that he is uber awesome, top 20 offensive player, etc.
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Old 06-12-2008, 12:40 AM   #11991
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Yeah I don't really want to get into it, but if you don't think this was by far and away Kobe's best season, then I don't know what to say. Sure he put up tons of points before, but it was while everyone sat around and watched him.
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Old 06-12-2008, 12:44 AM   #11992
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I know this is a crazy question and all, but I'll go with it. Um, why doesn't he get more minutes for the Nuggets? I mean its clear that he is uber awesome, top 20 offensive player, etc.
He plays SG, AI plays SG. AI plays more minutes than anyone in the league. Karl played another dude at PG for much of the season, but that changed as JR started playing better.
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Old 06-12-2008, 12:45 AM   #11993
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

JR>>>>>>>>>AI
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Old 06-12-2008, 12:47 AM   #11994
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Is trolling really that fun?
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Old 06-12-2008, 12:48 AM   #11995
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Hey you guys changed my mind. Judging from your arguments JR Smith is obviously better than AI, how am I trolling?

The best part is I actually like JR, and watched him throw down some sick dunks as a sophmore. But you guys are way overrating him.
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Old 06-12-2008, 12:54 AM   #11996
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I think people (including myself) don't quite understand TBach's line regarding Kobe, but he's not being overrated. I never said he was better than anyone, but I did say that he has a similar playing style to Manu.

JR supporters have listed the facts(stats), whereas the haters have come up with nothing substantial, other than making stuff up.
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Old 06-12-2008, 12:55 AM   #11997
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Oh man why couldnt any of u JR Smith lovers be in our N2 league (I have JR smith and he has a super cheap contract).

Btw I am a huge JR Smith fan as well but i'd def trade him for a superstarrrrrrrr
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Old 06-12-2008, 12:55 AM   #11998
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

JR Smith isn't even good enough to have "haters." More like "realists."
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Old 06-12-2008, 12:57 AM   #11999
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I just downloaded the new Rambo movie. Pretty badass I must say.
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Old 06-12-2008, 12:59 AM   #12000
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

yeah i'm a huge fanboi. the reality of the situation falls between my posts and other people's posts, precisely on seadoods IMO.
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