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Old 06-10-2008, 05:03 AM   #11801
Assani Fisher
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by tbach24 View Post
KAJ is not better than Jordan.

Not at all.

NBA success is about one thing, success. The Jabber only won NBA titles when he had Oscar Robertson, arguably top 10 of all time, and then Magic, another guy who's top 10 of all time. And even then, he couldn't get it done consistently, (best was winning two in a row on some pretty stacked Lakers teams, when Magic was their best player).

Jordan on the other hand, won 6 titles, completely dominating the league in every facet of the game. He had some help, but you can't put Pippen in the same sentence as the Big O or Magic.

I mean, the longevity is nice, but to use a comparison from another sport, I'd use Emmitt Smith. Yeah he was great for a long time, is probably a little underrated (most people I talk to don't have him in their top 5), holds some awesome records, but he's not as good as his stats.

Here's my top 5:
1. Jordan
2. Shaq (can't deny what he did in the playoffs)
3. Russell (11 rings, continually dominated Wilt)
4. Wilt (suck it)
5. Kareem

and I think when it's all said and done, LBJ will be higher than Kareem.
How can you say that about KAJ and then rank Russell above him when Russell's team was stocked full of HOFers?


And I think you're severely underrating luck and variance in sports when you say things like "NBA success is about one thing, success."
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Old 06-10-2008, 05:04 AM   #11802
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Jack of Arcades View Post
If Magic had longevity he'd be better than Kareem.
And if Kareem had Magic's passing skills he'd be better than Magic....wtf does that prove?


Even still I think I disagree. Magic was average on defense, KAJ was a great defender at the most important defensive position.
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Old 06-10-2008, 05:05 AM   #11803
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by cowboy2579 View Post
I vote no to expanding the draft to 12 rounds. The 11th and 12th round will, in my view, contribute basically no substance to the teams but expand the drafting process by at least another 3 weeks. There's just not enough minutes to go around for 12 players.
Of course it won't really matter...but this is too much fun to want it to end, no?
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Old 06-10-2008, 05:11 AM   #11804
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

random brag: Big article in current issue of Bluff Magazine talks a ton about me

random beat: The jist of the article is taking a shot at the WSOP and its mostly talking about how I took a chance in 2006 by playing in a bunch of events and lost a bunch

random variance: I'll get my bracelet this year
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Old 06-10-2008, 05:43 AM   #11805
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

4 star thread imo
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Old 06-10-2008, 05:48 AM   #11806
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

You would.
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Old 06-10-2008, 05:59 AM   #11807
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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random brag: Big article in current issue of Bluff Magazine talks a ton about me
Did they mention how big of health risk drafting Penny in the second round was?..if not - then why r u posting it here!

seriously though, congrats on the article and best of luck in the WSOP....getter done!

link to article?
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Old 06-10-2008, 06:19 AM   #11808
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I think you misunderstood me. I wasn't saying that its a bad thing that he played more minutes. I was saying that his numbers are overinflated, though, due to him having played more minutes than the others. Look at his per 36 minutes as proof of this.

I'm not sure what you mean by the "pound for pound" argument. Basically the argument that I'm making is that Wilt dominated because he was so much larger than the competition. If he were in this draft, he would no longer be larger than the competition.

Again you keep listing bulk categories. I don't dispute that he put up sick bulk stats due to the facts that he A. Was way larger than the competition, B. Played a ridiculous number of minutes, and C. Was the first, second, and third option on his team. However, that doesn't make him better than the other 4 just becuase he put up great bulk stats.
I think we're on different wavelengths here, comparing apples to oranges. I agree with everything you said, including the fact that he would likely suffer more than the others in this exercise (although Russell sees the same effect, competing against much larger and better competition).

However, in the post that you quoted (that started this whole thing), my sole point that his statistical dominance over his era hasn't been duplicated. I'm trying not to open the can of worms of who was a better player, or who would do better in our magical league.

Just that his stats while he played were bat**** insane and nobody will ever come close.
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Old 06-10-2008, 06:24 AM   #11809
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

assani, while you're on, any ruling on bigcat? he hasn't been spotted for more than a week.
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Old 06-10-2008, 06:34 AM   #11810
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by SHARK DOCTOR View Post
Did they mention how big of health risk drafting Penny in the second round was?..if not - then why r u posting it here!

seriously though, congrats on the article and best of luck in the WSOP....getter done!

link to article?
Just posting it here because....well because I'm in this thread nearly all day long and I pretty much post everything here, lol. I don't think the full article is available online, but theres a preview of it under "Taking a Shot": http://www.bluffmagazine.com/magazine/preview.asp
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Old 06-10-2008, 06:39 AM   #11811
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by KLJ View Post
I think we're on different wavelengths here, comparing apples to oranges. I agree with everything you said, including the fact that he would likely suffer more than the others in this exercise (although Russell sees the same effect, competing against much larger and better competition).

However, in the post that you quoted (that started this whole thing), my sole point that his statistical dominance over his era hasn't been duplicated. I'm trying not to open the can of worms of who was a better player, or who would do better in our magical league.

Just that his stats while he played were bat**** insane and nobody will ever come close.
oh ok...yea I guess we agree then
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Old 06-10-2008, 06:45 AM   #11812
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by BobboFitos View Post
assani, while you're on, any ruling on bigcat? he hasn't been spotted for more than a week.
I'm going to say that since:

A. I did say there was no time limit

B. Even so, its only been a few hours since the last pick

C. Being gone while its not your pick is not against the rules



I'm not going to take any action yet. My completely unofficial rules are to give everyone 24 hours before I even start to worry. And isn't he friends with BigChips? Maybe he can help. Regardless lets just see if he shows up tomorrow.
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Old 06-10-2008, 07:17 AM   #11813
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Also Bobbo...while you're here in Vegas I'd like to talk to you in person about the basketball site we were discussing via email.
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Old 06-10-2008, 08:00 AM   #11814
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Also Bobbo...while you're here in Vegas I'd like to talk to you in person about the basketball site we were discussing via email.
sounds good to me, let's have dinner when kbfc gets here, we'll get the juices flowing about basketball.
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Old 06-10-2008, 08:13 AM   #11815
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Assani - Congrats and good luck.

On BigCat - He's actually come through pretty well with his picks. My guess is that BigChips lets him know, because this same thing happened last time and he didn't take that long to pick.
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Old 06-10-2008, 10:04 AM   #11816
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

isnt bigcat a gimmick acct? the original proly reads this thread anyway.
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Old 06-10-2008, 10:34 AM   #11817
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

marbury's EF rating > payton, kidd, reggie, b.davis, pippen and a million others drafted before him.
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Old 06-10-2008, 10:36 AM   #11818
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Efficiency?
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Old 06-10-2008, 11:23 AM   #11819
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by xxThe_Lebowskixx View Post
marbury's EF rating > payton, kidd, reggie, b.davis, pippen and a million others drafted before him.
Efficiency rating is ****ing terrible.
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Old 06-10-2008, 11:30 AM   #11820
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Assani,

You have a habit of using per 36 minutes in incorrect ways to make arguments. e.g. Ginobili is awesome because of his per 36, or Wilt's overrated because of his per 36. I know that you know that Ginobili has less value than others because of his inability to play more, and that Wilt has more value because he's an iron man. Yet for some reason, you still like to skew discussion with those meaningless stats. I don't get it.
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Old 06-10-2008, 11:32 AM   #11821
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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How can you say that about KAJ and then rank Russell above him when Russell's team was stocked full of HOFers?

And I think you're severely underrating luck and variance in sports when you say things like "NBA success is about one thing, success."
Quote:
People are quick to toss out the "Russell had sick teammates" card, but a lot of people who watched them play often credit Russell as being the "ultimate team player" or whatever. To use a contemporary example, anyone who has watched the Suns over the past couple seasons knew that they're only great because of Nashua, yet if you erase all the records minus the stats, and erased everyone's memories, people would be say something like "he had great teammates." To an extent it's true, but to deny that Nash raises all his teammates' games to another level is ludicrous.

IE, Amare is awesome, but is he as good as his stats (which would make him the best offensive forward in the game the three seasons he and Nash have been together)? No way.
That's how I can say that.

And about the luck and varience thing: maybe, but there are reason that we think of Tim Duncan more highly than Kevin Garnett. That we think of Hakeem more highly than we think of David Robinson. That we think of Tony Parker more highly than we do of Stephon Marbury. And it's because of the rings. Would Timmy have 4 if he had landed in Boston instead of San Antonio? Who knows.
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Old 06-10-2008, 12:05 PM   #11822
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I really like the McKey pick - he has nice stats, but watching him play, I was always impressed. A good teammate, plays well within the team concept both offensively and defensively. Nothing spectacular, very workman-like, but effective. Should fit in nice on JoA's team

I was wondering when Ruland would go. I think it was too early, but I like that the drafter didn't try to make crap up and just admitted the injuries and is willing to take whatever Ruland gives him. A nice change of pace in that department. Should be an awesome team in years 1-2 of the league though. I didn't like the team at first, but I think sergsz has done an awesome job of expanding on the Areans/Deke core and filled in the other spots nicely. In year 1, I think Gay will probably fare better as a 6th man than as a starter, and I would make that my next pick. By year 4, Gay should be ready to take over.

Tripucka - I like him and he should serve well in the 6th man role - instant offense, no defense.

D

Last edited by D104; 06-10-2008 at 12:16 PM.
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Old 06-10-2008, 12:50 PM   #11823
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Im interested to see if Big Cat and mmbtone take true centers or power forwards and decide to go small.

D
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Old 06-10-2008, 02:21 PM   #11824
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

The draft is getting slow.......................need picks! Want to have first 5 picks for everyone so we can grade.
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Old 06-10-2008, 02:33 PM   #11825
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

BiiiiiiiiiiiiiigChips is on, BiiiiiiiiiiiiigChips can you contact BigCat for his pick?
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