Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Sporting Events Discussion centered around sporting events.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-09-2008, 06:48 PM   #11726
KLJ
20k hands/day
 
KLJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Topeka
Posts: 5,701
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by D104 View Post
Someone hook me up with who's making the next 5 picks, I want to predict and I can't view the spreadsheet via my phone.

D
van_exel_fan: Reggie Miller, Rodman, Artest, Sam Perkins
sergsz: Mutombo, Arenas, Schrempf, Rudy Gay
Jack of Arcades: David Robinson, Terry Porter, Mark Aguirre, AC Green
BigCat: Worthy, Bosh, Baron, Stackhouse
mmbt0ne: nash, ginobili, anthony mason, christie
GKA: paul pierce, gasol, andre miller, kenyon marton
KLJ: Vince Carter, Moncrief, McDyess, Mark Eaton
KLJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2008, 06:48 PM   #11727
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by kidcolin View Post
re: floor spacing

I think tbach is underestimating the difference a couple feet makes. It's a lot easier to help off a guy who's only good out to 18 than a guy good out to 24.
But I think you guys are ignoring the fact that its very hard to guard a slasher when you've cheated off him too because you're not in good defensive position and stance when he gets the ball. So if you cheat off Wade/Ellis when they're standing at the 3 point line- yes they probably won't shoot the 3 but they'll start their drives with you not in good defensive position which makes it that much harder to defend.
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2008, 06:54 PM   #11728
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by EPiPeN11 View Post
ok so I would have drafted him 10th, and could be convinced he would be 12th (although in real life where we didnt have as many players to choose from I would take Magic/Bird over McHale.
God, this stuff just has to be a level....all of it.
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2008, 06:55 PM   #11729
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by KLJ View Post
cmon isn't it the least bit inspiring that ePeen consistently gets destroyed in arguments, yet still always comes back for more? whether it's stupidity, just being stubborn, or constant trolling, it's somewhat fun to watch (albeit frustrating)
+1
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2008, 06:56 PM   #11730
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franchise 60 View Post
I went through some pages looking for the top 10 stuff, and found the post that JOA quoted (its on like a mid 70 page on 50posts per page), but I wasn't going to post it just to let it all die.

It really is amazing if you go back and see some of the instances where he brings up McHale out of nowhere and derails the entire thread.
like just now for example?
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2008, 07:04 PM   #11731
D104
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
D104's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In a better place.
Posts: 18,272
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I think vanexelfan may have the worst offensive team - I just don't see how that team scores outside of running Reg off screens. I don't remember Perk having a good post game, PLs correct me if I'm wrong.

D
D104 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2008, 07:05 PM   #11732
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franchise 60 View Post
Ok lets change the subject.

If this draft included guys like Kareem, Wilt, West, Russell, etc, how do you think the top 10 would change? Would Jordon still be number 1?

I'd have to say that the top 5 would be Jordan, Kareem, Wilt, Russell, and Shaq, but not sure about the order. Thoughts?
Am I the only one who thinks Wilt is a bit overrated...I mean, obviously one of the all time greats, no question there. But I think I'd take Shaq and Kareem over him for example.

I honestly think I'd go with Kareem #1 overall. The longevity and position scarcity(and importance) puts him above MJ imo. Plus he could actually shoot FTs.

Russell is tough to evaluate because "he did stuff that doesn't show up in teh numbers" and of course 99% of us didn't see him play, so we really have no clue. But numbers wise hes clearly last, so I'll go on that(btw, holy **** Bill Russell was inefficient):

1. Kareem
2. MJ
3. Shaq
4. Wilt
5. Russell


Btw when you search PBR for "Shaq" you get Shaquille O Neal and Shaquala Williams....at first I forgot that they included WNBA on that site, and I was like "WTF is Shaqula Williams"??
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2008, 07:08 PM   #11733
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by D104 View Post
They would prob mess up NBA Jam by adding in too many new features / making the game too complex. The should just leave the game the same and update the rosters.

There was this indoor gym/arcade where I used to play ball in HS. After we got done playing, we would play NBA JAM. The weird thing about it was that the "big head" code was perma-on. It was funny tho'

D
I feel the same way about my favorite game of all time, Tecmo Super Bowl. They're tentatively scheduled to be making a new one IIRC, but I fear too many changes. BTW I'd kick anyone's ass at Tecmo Super Bowl.
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2008, 07:10 PM   #11734
cowboy2579
adept
 
cowboy2579's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: 2+2 obv
Posts: 1,104
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbach24 View Post
van_exel_fan, sergsz, JoA, BigCat, mmbt0ne, GKA, and KLJ to close out the 5th round.
Gawd, that BigCat/mmbt0ne block is going to be brutal.
cowboy2579 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2008, 07:16 PM   #11735
KLJ
20k hands/day
 
KLJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Topeka
Posts: 5,701
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
Am I the only one who thinks Wilt is a bit overrated...I mean, obviously one of the all time greats, no question there. But I think I'd take Shaq and Kareem over him for example.
I have never seen him play, but in terms of statistical dominance over an era, Jordan isn't even close to Wilt. His wikipedia, bb-ref, and list of accomplishments are ridiculous.
KLJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2008, 07:16 PM   #11736
KLJ
20k hands/day
 
KLJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Topeka
Posts: 5,701
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboy2579 View Post
Gawd, that BigCat/mmbt0ne block is going to be brutal.
yeah, im not planning on picking until like friday
KLJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2008, 07:20 PM   #11737
van_exel_fan
grinder
 
van_exel_fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: witness protection
Posts: 539
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Just got home from work...gimme 20 mins
van_exel_fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2008, 07:26 PM   #11738
EPiPeN11
banned
 
EPiPeN11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: akon is the goat
Posts: 18,605
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by KLJ View Post
I have never seen him play, but in terms of statistical dominance over an era, Jordan isn't even close to Wilt. His wikipedia, bb-ref, and list of accomplishments are ridiculous.
He was also playing at a time where there were very few centers even over 6'9 except for himself
EPiPeN11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2008, 07:33 PM   #11739
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by KLJ View Post
I have never seen him play, but in terms of statistical dominance over an era, Jordan isn't even close to Wilt. His wikipedia, bb-ref, and list of accomplishments are ridiculous.
1. Out of the 5, Wilt had by far the least team success despite the fact that there were only 8 teams in the league his rookie year.



2. Wilt's TS% was astoundingly average.



3. In Wilt's rookie year here was the height of the starting centers on the other 7 teams: 6'9", 6'8", 6'9", 7'0", 6'8", 6'10", 6'9". And their weights: 215lbs, 230 lbs, 230lbs, 234 lbs, 220lbs, 230lbs, and 205lbs.



4. Wilt played many more minutes than the others. His per 36 minutes suffer as a result. Per 36 minute stats:

Kareem: 24.1/10.9/3.5
Wilt: 23.6/18.0/3.5
Shaq: 25.1/11.4/2.7
Russell: 12.8/19.1/3.6
MJ: 28.3/5.9/4.9

And keep in mind that Kareem played far longer than the other 3, so his numbers are brought down more by his decline.




5. MVP awards:

Kareem: 6
MJ: 6
Russell: 5
Wilt: 4
Shaq: 1(LOL)


And keep in mind that Wilt/Russell played with far fewer teams and players so they had a much greater shot at winning the award.
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2008, 07:41 PM   #11740
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Seriously Kareem is just a freak. Consider how injury prone 90% of big men seem to be, especially late in their careers. Then consider that Kareem played 20 seasons and only missed 80 games in his career. He also shot FTs at a 72.1% clip despite being 7'2" tall.
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2008, 08:11 PM   #11741
KLJ
20k hands/day
 
KLJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Topeka
Posts: 5,701
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

i actually wrote a long response to this, but decided that it's not worth arguing.

cliff's notes from it though: Wilt was in the top 8 in TS% 11 times, having the highest 3 times. I don't consider being able to play more minutes a disadvantage (especially because he barely committed any fouls: 2.0 per game). i don't buy "pound for pound" arguments unless we're transplanting a player in another world because I don't consider being bigger than his peers a disadvantage, at least when talking about dominance over an era. oh and he was really durable too

30/23/4.4, who knows how many blocks. Probably the only player (guessing) to lead the league in points, rebounds and (total) assists on different occasions. whether you consider his best year to be 50/26/2.4 or 24/24/8.6 or something else, I'm not sure it matters.
KLJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2008, 08:18 PM   #11742
BobboFitos
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
BobboFitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 72,764
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by kidcolin View Post
does anyone agree with me on Bobbo's squad? I really think Eddie needs to be your 2. On offense it may or may not matter much, but Ainge sorta forces Eddie to play the 3 on defense, which takes away some of his defensive muster (he made All-Defense teams as a guard).

And I think Ainge is a much more desirable 6th man as he can run the point.

Just my $0.02
Eddie Jones is a Forward-Guard, for the record, and has the strength to match up with 3s just fine. I will obviously consider drafting a more traditional 3 in the near future to give my team flexibility though.

Also, what's the deal with the coach stance? Any resolution?
BobboFitos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2008, 08:26 PM   #11743
BobboFitos
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
BobboFitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 72,764
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franchise 60 View Post
Ok lets change the subject.

If this draft included guys like Kareem, Wilt, West, Russell, etc, how do you think the top 10 would change? Would Jordon still be number 1?

I'd have to say that the top 5 would be Jordan, Kareem, Wilt, Russell, and Shaq, but not sure about the order. Thoughts?
I'm starting to believe Lew Alcindor would be #1, ahead of Shaq, Russell, Jordan, etc.

I think the order would be roughly:

Lew, MJ, Shaq, Wilt, LBJ.
BobboFitos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2008, 08:32 PM   #11744
BobboFitos
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
BobboFitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 72,764
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by NopairParker View Post

The team with danny ainge would have been great had they not had the weakness of Terell brandon, having one bad shooter is just as bad for your spacing as having 3. Your only as good as your weakest link.
Tee Bee is a career 35.5% 3pt shooter, which although not phenomenal, is above average. He also shot 1.5 attempts a game, so it's not as though he's not capable of doing it. Contrast this to Wade (25.8% on 1.0 attempts game) and Ellis (28.5% on 1.3 attempts a game) and there is a much different story here.

Your team isn't really capable of shooting 3s, period - Tee Bee as my 3rd best 3pt shooter on the floor is quite adept. So... My weakest link is not weak.
BobboFitos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2008, 08:36 PM   #11745
BobboFitos
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
BobboFitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 72,764
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by D104 View Post
Also, I will be rooting for your team b/c Kemp is prob one of my 5 fave players of all time. I love his youtube clips, esp the one where he dunks on a unnamed GSW player, gets the and 1 and the guy gives him 5 for dunking on him. So great.

D
Oh wow PLEASE pm me this
BobboFitos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2008, 08:38 PM   #11746
kidcolin
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
kidcolin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: thank god for the hatchery
Posts: 108,763
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

pretty sure it's in my easter eggs.
kidcolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2008, 08:39 PM   #11747
KLJ
20k hands/day
 
KLJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Topeka
Posts: 5,701
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

sent
KLJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2008, 08:42 PM   #11748
NopairParker
old hand
 
NopairParker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Little Armenia
Posts: 1,386
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobboFitos View Post
Tee Bee is a career 35.5% 3pt shooter, which although not phenomenal, is above average. He also shot 1.5 attempts a game, so it's not as though he's not capable of doing it. Contrast this to Wade (25.8% on 1.0 attempts game) and Ellis (28.5% on 1.3 attempts a game) and there is a much different story here.

Your team isn't really capable of shooting 3s, period - Tee Bee as my 3rd best 3pt shooter on the floor is quite adept. So... My weakest link is not weak.
Tee BEe was a far worse 3 point shooter than wade, even though the numbers may say different, having watched both of them play in their primes.

Tee Bee was coached by a mike fratello team in the 90"s that wasnt allowed to take a shot until at least 15 seconds were of the shot clock ( exageration ) leading to forced great shot selection from him, while wade was allowed to pretty much free lance and do whatever he wants on the floor leading to more bad shots taken, 3 pt shots taken. Same is true for lebron, If I was coaching either lebron or Wade I wouldnt allow either of them to take a 3 point shot with more than 10 seconds remaining on the shot clock. Their driving capabailities are far too great to settle for a 3 pt shot they can have whenever they want.
NopairParker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2008, 08:44 PM   #11749
tbach24
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
tbach24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: @tbach2
Posts: 11,476
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

KAJ is not better than Jordan.

Not at all.

NBA success is about one thing, success. The Jabber only won NBA titles when he had Oscar Robertson, arguably top 10 of all time, and then Magic, another guy who's top 10 of all time. And even then, he couldn't get it done consistently, (best was winning two in a row on some pretty stacked Lakers teams, when Magic was their best player).

Jordan on the other hand, won 6 titles, completely dominating the league in every facet of the game. He had some help, but you can't put Pippen in the same sentence as the Big O or Magic.

I mean, the longevity is nice, but to use a comparison from another sport, I'd use Emmitt Smith. Yeah he was great for a long time, is probably a little underrated (most people I talk to don't have him in their top 5), holds some awesome records, but he's not as good as his stats.

Here's my top 5:
1. Jordan
2. Shaq (can't deny what he did in the playoffs)
3. Russell (11 rings, continually dominated Wilt)
4. Wilt (suck it)
5. Kareem

and I think when it's all said and done, LBJ will be higher than Kareem.
tbach24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2008, 08:46 PM   #11750
tbach24
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
tbach24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: @tbach2
Posts: 11,476
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by NopairParker View Post
Tee BEe was a far worse 3 point shooter than wade, even though the numbers may say different, having watched both of them play in their primes.

Tee Bee was coached by a mike fratello team in the 90"s that wasnt allowed to take a shot until at least 15 seconds were of the shot clock ( exageration ) leading to forced great shot selection from him, while wade was allowed to pretty much free lance and do whatever he wants on the floor leading to more bad shots taken, 3 pt shots taken. Same is true for lebron, If I was coaching either lebron or Wade I wouldnt allow either of them to take a 3 point shot with more than 10 seconds remaining on the shot clock. Their driving capabailities are far too great to settle for a 3 pt shot they can have whenever they want.
Dude, this argument is awful. TB is a better 3 pt shooter than Wade, period. If I have you team, I try to find a good PG, bring Brandon off the bench, and just don't shoot 3's. You don't really need to shoot 3's to be successful, just look at how the 76ers did this season shooting very few 3's, which a not that great lineup.
tbach24 is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive