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Old 06-06-2008, 07:25 PM   #11376
Assani Fisher
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Jack of Arcades View Post
Unless they're a really good defender, then it's completely overrated.
What is overrated? Defense???
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Old 06-06-2008, 07:39 PM   #11377
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

This is great, I wake up and there are a few picks. Sweet. (Whats the deal w/ everyone making turrrible writeups?)

Paul Pressey
I know a bunch of people had their eyes on him so he was NOT falling further. Nice selection, odd fit I think. I think of him as more of a grinder who "got it done," not an up-tempo running mate for Magic. Good value regardless.

Andrew Bogut
Hint to Victor: LIST YOUR ****ING TEAM DUDE. You have the worst frontcourt defense in the league IMO. Bogut/Amare will be funny to watch together - I think he's alright value but there are a couple better centers I'd rather pair on your team I think.

Rajon Rondo
Since Rondo is one of my favorite 5 players in the NBA (top 3 in fact) out of respect for him I can't trash the pick. That said, I think this is a reach.

Brian Grant
The general! I liked him, too, in NBA2k/2k1. I think Zoidberg nailed a homerun here, both for pairing on his team, for value, AND for need. Wow, the trifecta. I think ACG, Okur, Manning, Spre, and Pressey have been the best picks of this round so far. (In no particular order)

Nick the Quick
Love his nickname and free throw shooting. Don't love the player, tho. I think there were a bunch of better PGs (I don't like his game, it's so iso-centric) and I always thought he was more of a chucker. Good thing is with Pippen you didn't need a pass-first PG, but you have an odd team for sure. (2 centers, 2 small forwards, and a combo guard) He'd be great off the bench...

James Posey
Teddy, you want to start him at the 2? He's a 3/4, I do think he's a plus defender, but generally does well w/ physicality. He doesn't guard little ones that well. I know you wanted Pressey (and Posey is a SLIGHTLY poor man's Pressey) so I can understand the pick, and I think it's solid value, just nothing too amazing.
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Old 06-06-2008, 07:46 PM   #11378
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

yeah i think van exel coming off the bench is way better. but that could certainly be the plan - too early to judge.

i will say there aren't too many guys capable of taking over games at this point in the draft and when nick got it going he was sick.
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Old 06-06-2008, 07:48 PM   #11379
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by ClarkNasty View Post
I know you didn't specifically mention PER. You did, however, posit that TS% coupled with assists is the key to this draft and is *underrated*. I'm not sure how you can say that when the last 1,000 posts, if not more, have centered on TS%. You didn't directly attack PER (which I also think is flawed), but did so indirectly by implying that TS% was more important.

I'm not a huge PER guy, but I'd certainly say PER is more key than TS% and has become more underrated. End of the day, you don't win games without bulk production.
Just wanted to point out, Marbury has a career 19 PER, and that's including his last three years with the godawful Knicks that caused his average to drop from 20+. On the other hand his career TS% is .530, which has been pretty constant throughout his career except one outlier year when he had .575.
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Old 06-06-2008, 07:52 PM   #11380
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Thing about TS%, I like the stat don't get me wrong. It basically seperates chuckers from efficient players. A person cold theoretically have higher than 1 TS% actually much higher if magically they always got to the line, but the thing is they aren't taking shots and never taking contested shots which is a good thing but then you have player B who is on a bad team and has to take contested shots so his TS% is lower than it would be if he was on another team with better players. TS% is a nice tool, it shows that my boy CWebb was an inefficient scorer which there is no doubt about even if I didn't see TS%, thing is he does everything else pretty well, actually really well so it can make up for his bad TS%. If were going to base everything on TS%, then it does become stupid but I'm pretty sure not everyone is basing their drafting on TS% only, I'm definitely not or Clifford Robinson and Tim Hardaway wouldn't be on my team. And there are a bunch of guys who have drafted low TS% guys who do other things really well.

A high bulk crappy TS% is a bad but not that bad of a sign. A low bulk low TS% is a really bad sign to me.
I agree. Good example of low usage/low TS is Ben Wallace. He SUCKS on offense. I'm still waiting for someone to draft a 4ppg scorer w. a high TS and raving about the pick, tho, hehe.
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Old 06-06-2008, 07:53 PM   #11381
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by ClarkNasty View Post
Oh no - the way the rest of my team went so far, Mookie is the perfect guy for me - especially on the defensive end and in running the break.

It's no different than in the regular NBA thread people are like "zomg Amare has a per of like 800! when he's obviously not a top 5 player in the league.
in my mind tho PER is an offensive stat. And Amare is indeed a top 5 offensive player. In fact, don't see how people could argue that.
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Old 06-06-2008, 07:58 PM   #11382
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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This is great, I wake up and there are a few picks. Sweet.
Bobbo, wanna play ball today? Was going to go in about an hour or two.
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Old 06-06-2008, 07:59 PM   #11383
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Yeah, Jackson was so awesome. I think part of the reason he fell was because people were looking more for huge peaks and Jackson was a guy who just played forever at a pretty good level. He's Eddie Murray, but people wanted Ralph Kiner. I think, in this case, Ralph Kiner is Terrell Brandon.
Mark Jackson was on my list, JoA. I thought Tee Bee was a better fit (and IMO a better player, but think they're similar in pure value) so I went with him.
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Old 06-06-2008, 08:01 PM   #11384
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Is his D bad b/c of his team or just bad? Honestly I don't think I've seen a Bucks game in years and I watch a lot of NBA games. His stats are definitely good though for a 23 year old. I think eventually he could become a 20/10/4 guy which is pretty damn good for a 5th round pick. I also wasn't sure sure about his game to put Bogut-D12 front line.
I watched a fair amount of Bucks games, and basically his team makes his D look worse than it is, but even on a good day it's not QUITE average.
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Old 06-06-2008, 08:04 PM   #11385
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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it's only early if he'd still be around in 27 picks...do u really think that he would last another 27 picks at this stage? if he would, then it's a reach; if not, then i had to take him now barring a trade

also, buck/mourning are better defenders than kg/perkins, so rondo can be even more effective defensively on this team than on the Celtics
Sorry, but KG/Perk is a better defensive combo than Buck/Mourning. Although it's probably close.
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Old 06-06-2008, 08:08 PM   #11386
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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he picks again in 7 picks, probably worried bobbo might take posey
I love Posey but I was NOT drafting him in this upcoming spot.
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Old 06-06-2008, 08:10 PM   #11387
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Yeah I'm not claiming Posey is a great pick. I just like the fit. He's what I need. And he can definitely guard 2's, although with Hill's quickness I might stick him on some of the 2's. Not sure yet.

Also, is there a better 2/3 defensive pairing than Hill and Posey? I looked through and there were some other good ones, but I wouldn't say any are better than mine.

Now just need a PG.
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Old 06-06-2008, 08:11 PM   #11388
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

So according to this, per 36 Majerle is a step above scoring department, Posey is not QUITE the 3pt shooter but v close to shoe guys, they all get to the line roughly the same amount with Majerle a step above, Posey is the best rebounder, none of them turn it over a ton... PER underrates the hell out of all of them, hmm, cool stuff teddy.

I think it does show Majerle was def the best of that bunch (goes to show Battier was a reach) and that's not close, but Posey is only a slight step below Battier and Prince, and frankly, at this point, that qualifies as good value. Kudos.
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Old 06-06-2008, 08:13 PM   #11389
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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in my mind tho PER is an offensive stat. And Amare is indeed a top 5 offensive player. In fact, don't see how people could argue that.
Kobe, Lebron, Dirk, Nash, Chris Paul, and Wade (when healthy) are all better on offense imo.
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Old 06-06-2008, 08:16 PM   #11390
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Top rated players this year by scoring PER, which is:

(Pts + FGM *.3 - FGA*.7 - (FTA-FTM*-.4)

per 48 minutes

Player Scoring PER
Amare Stoudemire 33.6
Kobe Bryant 28.8
LeBron James 28.7
Kevin Martin 27.8
Carmelo Anthony 27.6
Dirk Nowitzki 26.5
Manu Ginobili 25.9
Corey Maggette 25.6
Chris Bosh 25.5
Undrafted Player 24.9
Allen Iverson 24.8
Dwyane Wade 24.4
Yao Ming 24.4
Carlos Boozer 24.1
Kevin Garnett 23.4
Dwight Howard 23.3
Michael Redd 22.9
Richard Jefferson 22.9
Paul Pierce 22.2
Chauncey Billups 22.1
Chris Paul 22.0

This isn't adjusted for pace.
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Old 06-06-2008, 08:19 PM   #11391
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Bobbo, wanna play ball today? Was going to go in about an hour or two.
finally caught up to this, and i just woke up. if you are leaving/left, than no, otherwise yeah, i coudl play
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Old 06-06-2008, 08:19 PM   #11392
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Amare just put up 25.2 and 20.4 ppg on 63.7 and 65.6% TS in back to back seasons. He may very well be the best offensive player in the league imo.
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Old 06-06-2008, 08:20 PM   #11393
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Kobe, Lebron, Dirk, Nash, Chris Paul, and Wade (when healthy) are all better on offense imo.
thats just, like, your opinion, man.
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Old 06-06-2008, 08:20 PM   #11394
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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finally caught up to this, and i just woke up. if you are leaving/left, than no, otherwise yeah, i coudl play
nah, watching Shawshank Redemption, then gonna go get my hair cut...then play....maybe around 6:30 or 7? Sound good to you? I'll give you a call before I leave if you want.
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Old 06-06-2008, 08:20 PM   #11395
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

we all know nash is the GOAT so it renders this discussion about amare useless IMO
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Old 06-06-2008, 08:21 PM   #11396
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Jack of Arcades View Post
Top rated players this year by scoring PER, which is:

(Pts + FGM *.3 - FGA*.7 - (FTA-FTM*-.4)

per 48 minutes

Player Scoring PER
Amare Stoudemire 33.6
Kobe Bryant 28.8
LeBron James 28.7
Kevin Martin 27.8
Carmelo Anthony 27.6
Dirk Nowitzki 26.5
Manu Ginobili 25.9
Corey Maggette 25.6
Chris Bosh 25.5
Undrafted Player 24.9
Allen Iverson 24.8
Dwyane Wade 24.4
Yao Ming 24.4
Carlos Boozer 24.1
Kevin Garnett 23.4
Dwight Howard 23.3
Michael Redd 22.9
Richard Jefferson 22.9
Paul Pierce 22.2
Chauncey Billups 22.1
Chris Paul 22.0

This isn't adjusted for pace.
adjust for pace plz
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Old 06-06-2008, 08:21 PM   #11397
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
nah, watching Shawshank Redemption, then gonna go get my hair cut...then play....maybe around 6:30 or 7? Sound good to you? I'll give you a call before I leave if you want.
Oh man I love shawshank. sure, just give me a call at 7 or something.
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Old 06-06-2008, 08:21 PM   #11398
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
Amare just put up 25.2 and 20.4 ppg on 63.7 and 65.6% TS in back to back seasons. He may very well be the best offensive player in the league imo.
Certainly he's got the most valuable statline, but Amare's the one guy that's probably helped the most by Nash, right?
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Old 06-06-2008, 08:22 PM   #11399
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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thats just, like, your opinion, man.
I agree but do you really think Amare is better at offense than any of them? There are also a bunch of people who are close to Amare on offense (although i'd rank Amare higher than them).

I'm a huge Amare fan too fwiw.
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Old 06-06-2008, 08:23 PM   #11400
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I agree but do you really think Amare is better at offense than any of them? There are also a bunch of people who are close to Amare on offense (although i'd rank Amare higher than them).

I'm a huge Amare fan too fwiw.
I actually do agree with you, but I had to whip out the lebowski line.
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