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Old 06-06-2008, 06:19 PM   #11351
Jon34
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by kidcolin View Post
jon,

defensively he means

Misread it, my bad.
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Old 06-06-2008, 06:20 PM   #11352
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Don't know if I agree with that. Nash & Paul are both really close to Payton and Kidd, offensively. Williams is excellent as well. Kidd still had 10 APG this year. Baron Davis, Parker, Miller, etc...

There are a lot of guys that can create, guys that can penetrate, ones that can shoot, and some that can do all three.

It is hard to compare eras, but I don't think this PG class is that bad at all.
I meant defensively, overall it isn't close. Paul is the only guy known for his D at the PG position these days and he really isn't that great 1 on 1. Billups is also pretty solid. The list of good/great defensive PGs in the NBA is pretty short right now.
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Old 06-06-2008, 06:24 PM   #11353
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I just want to re-iterate what an awesome pick Pressey was. Averaged 8 SHOTS per game while averaging 5 APG and playing very good defense.
great value at this point imo
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Old 06-06-2008, 06:28 PM   #11354
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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End of the day, you don't win games without bulk production.
I'm not sure what you define as "bulk production", but I think the two most successful teams of the past few years have definitely been the Spurs and Pistons and neither of them have any huge scorers. Its not like anybody is taking a 7ppg guy because "OMG hes 60% TS and I can extraploate that." Most of us(including myself) who like TS% a lot are taking a few 20PPG scorers and a 3 10-15PPG scorers all of whom shoot efficiently to complete their starting lineups.
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Old 06-06-2008, 06:32 PM   #11355
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by capone0 View Post
You need to factor in TS%, PER, D, Injuries, what team their on, PPG, Rebounds, Blocks, Assists, Steals, 3 point %, FG%, length of career, "clutchness," attitude, mpg, stats per 36 min, how the person goes with the rest of the team and the direction of team, upside for young players, etc.
qft, at least I hope so
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Old 06-06-2008, 06:33 PM   #11356
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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A high bulk crappy TS% is a bad but not that bad of a sign. A low bulk low TS% is a really bad sign to me.
I'm not so sure about the former part though. Take Fat Lever for example. People tried to argue that it was "just the Denver system" that made his TS% so low, but I pointed out that other Denver players always put up similar numbers outside of Denver(and so did Fat!!). Or take Jerry Stackhouse- people used to say that he was only inefficient due to being the main guy, but on Dallas hes still inefficient.

In general I think that while its true that the main option of the offense would probably shoot more efficiently on a better team where he wasn't the main option, people usually overrate how much of a positive difference it would be.
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Old 06-06-2008, 06:35 PM   #11357
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Victor View Post
i got no clue who to take.
I just want to point out that my guy is STILL available and I'd love to trade up if possible.
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Old 06-06-2008, 06:41 PM   #11358
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

ggbman, edit that post MUCHO
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Old 06-06-2008, 06:43 PM   #11359
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

ggbman -

Edit that post, lots of undrafted players in there.

D
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Old 06-06-2008, 06:44 PM   #11360
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

You just discussed sooooooo many undrafted players, please take those out of your post
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Old 06-06-2008, 06:45 PM   #11361
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Whose turn is it right now, i can't view the spreadsheet from my phone.

D
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Old 06-06-2008, 06:45 PM   #11362
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

mmbt0ne
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Old 06-06-2008, 06:52 PM   #11363
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by ClarkNasty View Post
See, I think there are lots of examples of guys who as they got older learned to subjugate their game to others for the betterment of a team. Tim Hardaway is a great example. Ron Harper is a great example. Finley, Malone, Payton, heck even Stackhouse has learned to focus on D and more team play and less on shooting. Maybe its a "survival trait" to keep their jobs, but there are definitely examples of guys learning and accepting new roles.

I understand that you never claimed that got more efficient, so I'm not disagreeing with you. However, some may read your post and assume that you meant they got more efficient with reduced roles.

Tim Hardaway
Career TS%: 53.0
TS% each season after age 30: 53.2, 53.0, 51.1, 50.0, 51.3, 46.4, 49.0, 49.9, 48.3
Best season TS%: age 28 with the Golden State Warriors


Ron Harper
Career TS%: 51.1
TS% each season after age 30: 49.6, 48.3, 52.8, 54.3, 50.3, 45.1, 46.8, 52.5
Best season TS%: age 25 with Cleveland


Michael Finley
Career TS%: 52.6
TS% each season after age 30: 53.9, 51.9, 52.3, 52.4, 51.9
Best season TS%: age 22 with Phoenix



Those were your first 3 examples. You gave 3 more, but I don't feel like going through them all. I really did pick the first 3 and not cherry pick the 3 that fit my argument....if the last 3 don't fit my argument, then feel free to post them as I havn't even looked at their stats to see if they do or not.
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Old 06-06-2008, 06:54 PM   #11364
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Looks like he needs a center. BOR-ING. The list of available centers that have a TS>.50 and play more than 20 mpg is all of 85 players long. In nearly 30 years, only 85 players that meet those minimal requirements. And most of them are horrible!

D
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Old 06-06-2008, 06:55 PM   #11365
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by ClarkNasty View Post
I'm merely noting that TS% is far from "underrated" in this thread, and is closer to overrated than any other single stat I've seen people use. I'm certainly not suggesting that shooting at a low % is a good thing.
I will completely agree with this though. However, I think its getting so much play here because its severely underrated in real life. TV analysts and average fans still use crap like regular FG% which just makes no sense whatsoever. They also severely overrate inefficient bulk scorers. They also underrate defense by a country mile.
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Old 06-06-2008, 06:55 PM   #11366
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Van Exel - probably wont find a PGs with better numbers but wouldnt you rather have the guy who shot better than you expected and distributed worse than you remembered? Considering low FTA and high 3PA stats, I also assume he wouldnt penetrate as much as you would want. I would have Pippen handle the ball a lot anyway.

Posey - feel the same way about this pick that I do about the Battier pick. If you're going to put Durant on the bench then you still have two backcourt starting spots open so why not go for someone who is closer to BPA rather than a role player?
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Old 06-06-2008, 06:57 PM   #11367
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
I will completely agree with this though. However, I think its getting so much play here because its severely underrated in real life. TV analysts and average fans still use crap like regular FG% which just makes no sense whatsoever. They also severely overrate inefficient bulk scorers. They also underrate defense by a country mile.
Unless they're a really good defender, then it's completely overrated.
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Old 06-06-2008, 07:03 PM   #11368
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Seadood228 View Post
It was the behind the head on the break, OVER a defender, to Reg for the trey. The one after is sick to, where he fakes a behind the back with his right hand like he's going to pass left, then blocks the ball with his left hand (behind his back), and flips the ball to the dude on his right ala Pistol.

What's even more amazing is that the dude made all those sick passes and still had a AST/TO better than 3. That is just nuts.

This has gotta be posted again.
Theres another player who I think has a highlight reel thats right up there with that one. Won't post it because hes undrafted, but if it were up to me I would because hes most likely not going anytime soon whatsoever.
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Old 06-06-2008, 07:05 PM   #11369
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I'm a fan of Bogut's. Like him over some of the Cs picked recently.
Bogut is decent value there imo. I really like the fit for the team though.
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Old 06-06-2008, 07:08 PM   #11370
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by capone0 View Post
I wanted Rondo eventually, think it's a little early. His numbers really aren't anything special other than his D but he's young with tremendous upside, another PG off my list, I honestly think there are guys available who are significantly better than him, but that's just my opinion.
this.
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Old 06-06-2008, 07:10 PM   #11371
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

oops brain fart, i just deleted cuz i didnt feel like taking the time to edit it lol
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Old 06-06-2008, 07:13 PM   #11372
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Posey, eh just seems too soon for him.
+1
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Old 06-06-2008, 07:20 PM   #11373
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by ClarkNasty View Post
To put it in perspective, this guy, close to his prime, signed for less than the midlevel this summer as an unrestricted free agent and Boston fans weren't even sure they wanted him when he signed. But somehow this guy is a top 200 player since 1980. This is a great example of role players of today being overrated. And I think Posey is a very nice little player. He's just horrific value right now with the cats that are available.
very good overall post imo.
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Old 06-06-2008, 07:21 PM   #11374
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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What now there are 7 current Celtics picked, let's pick the whole team.
LOL
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Old 06-06-2008, 07:22 PM   #11375
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Chucker Dan went closest to where he should've.
Thanks, I think.
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