how old is lebron ?? if he is under 24.. the idea was to envision the player as he is right now.. is that correct ?? if so and you take lebron as he is now.. he is down the list... definately not better than magic, kobe and hakeem.

its criminal to say that lebron at his age is better than magic was at the same age... that could get one committed.

Are we disagreeing about DH's upside because I already think he's a top 5 player? Because if he gets even better, he's going to be the 2nd best rebounder of the modern era and one of the biggest offensive power houses ever.

Lebron has more potential than Magic, Kobe, and Hakeem and if he works hard enough on his game/doesn't get hurt should be better than all 3.

Be honest, are you Steven A Smith?

Kobe is def overrated. I really can't get over how everyone overlooks the gaping holes in his game. I think he went about where he should in this thing. Of course, if he played his whole career like this Utah series, I'd be singing a different.

hmm.. I think people might be right about Hakeem. I don't think he's a clear cut 4 pick.. I think where he went is pretty fair. I think Duncan and Hakeem are super close. Pretty similar offensively, slight nod to Hakeem, but despite being the inferior shotblocker I think Duncan is the best defender of like all ****ing time. Best taken so far imo.

I am shockingly agreeing with this. Magic was ******edly good.

Wat?

To those who think Kobe went too high/is overrated so far:

Will your opinion change if he wins the title this year, and again in at least one of the next two years?

I haven't been watching the games (not easy to find broadcasts where I am), but I've seen plenty of his game in my day and I have been reading the recaps. He sounds dominant at the moment and the Lakers look to be favorites to win the title.

I can't see how LeBron at 2 and Kobe at 10 or much higher makes sense. Kobe's got all the tools and a competitive streak that's right up there with Jordan's. Put him on a team of greats and I think you're in business against just about anyone.

Yeah, LeBron is great, he's a force of nature physically, he is still likely to improve, etc. But I don't know if he will ever have the mental toughness of Kobe. Just seems like a different personality. Too friendly, not enough stone-cold killer.

lol @ Kobe being overrated and having gaping holes in his game. And Hakeem is a better defender than Duncan too.

I don't get this. What are the gaping holes in Kobe's game that I am missing? Serious inquiry, because I think Kobe is top 10 easily, maybe higher.

I thought we were disagreeing that DH has an upside. You were making it sound like he wouldn't get any better. Rebounding-wise I see your point. In almost every other category I strongly disagree.

and yet you still got it wrong. Cheat again.

+1

Colin,

I know you know basketball and I respect your opinions. What do you think are the holes in Kobe's game?

Selfishness? Bad shot selection? What?

I think with the right teammates he can do just about anything.

Keep in mind I hate the ****ing Lakers so I'm no homer by any stretch.

Not unless he improves dramatically.. he likely will win at least one title in the next 4 years, quite possibly 2-4 more. But it's because he's on the most stacked team in basketball right now. He isn't playing any better than normal.. Pau Gasol is worth an assload of wins.

I think ~10 is fair for Kobe.. it's Kobe fainbois who thinks he is top 3-5 that tilt me.

I say "gaping holes".. it's not really a "gaping" hole. he's obv incredible. He's been a top 3-5 guy in the league for the past 8 years or so. But the gap between him and Jordan is pretty large. Kobe isn't a supremely efficient scorer. Not by a long shot. Probably due to his decision making more than anything (contested shots, contested 3s when he's not an amazing 3pt shooter). Jordan's CAREER PER is .1 less than Kobe's absolute peak. Kobe's peak win shares above average is 18.. that's one of MJ's weaker marks, who was normally in the mid 20s (phenomenal).

Kobe's never had a season as good as LBJ's or CP3's this year.

It's just something I can't understand.

The biggest reason Kobe doesn't get pole-vaulted to omg best ever status is that he's simply not as efficient as Jordan. I mean, he's good, but Michael had that huge stretch from his 23-27 seasons that make him stand out. Now maybe if Kobe keeps this up for a while he'll be just a bit below him, but he's never gonna have that stretch where everyone knew it was his world.

People think Lebron has that chance, but as long as he's taking a ton of 3s he won't make it...

Pretty much shot selection and decision making. He's obv got no holes skill wise or athletically.

Right now, in this Utah series.. he's playing some ******ed ball. Out of this world. If he did 90% of this for a whole season I'd be crowning his ass big time. People think I'm some biased hater. I'm not. I watch games, I look at data, I make an objective decision. He takes too many bad shots, especially 3s.

Unless I'm misunderstanding your question, Ben Wallace's 15.42 beats out Malone's 15.31, right?

LOL at the Lakers being the most stacked team in basketball, umm Celtics????????

And hes been the BEST player for the last 4-5 years, and thats while Tim Duncan/KG have been in the league too.

Willis.

15.53 beats them both in 1991. He was 2nd in the league but 6th in that era.

Over the past 4 years, I think Dirk > Kobe. Over the past 5 years, Garnett definitely > Kobe.

I might be insane (on the first part, going back 5 years gives you Garnett's MVP season and the one immediately after that, and he was GOOD those years).

Wow, I'm a ******. I was just looking at the yearly leaders instead of remembering that the second best from one year can still beat the first from another.

You are

Even if you include defensive game? Kobe >>> Dirk defensively and I hate them both.