Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Sporting Events Discussion centered around sporting events.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-09-2008, 07:03 PM   #1051
Ashy Knuckles
grinder
 
Ashy Knuckles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: right here
Posts: 486
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

how old is lebron ?? if he is under 24.. the idea was to envision the player as he is right now.. is that correct ?? if so and you take lebron as he is now.. he is down the list... definately not better than magic, kobe and hakeem.

its criminal to say that lebron at his age is better than magic was at the same age... that could get one committed.
Ashy Knuckles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2008, 07:05 PM   #1052
Jack of Arcades
Jumbo Jack
 
Jack of Arcades's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: The Bastion
Posts: 23,569
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

Are we disagreeing about DH's upside because I already think he's a top 5 player? Because if he gets even better, he's going to be the 2nd best rebounder of the modern era and one of the biggest offensive power houses ever.
Jack of Arcades is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2008, 07:05 PM   #1053
EPiPeN11
banned
 
EPiPeN11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: akon is the goat
Posts: 18,605
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashy Knuckles View Post
how old is lebron ?? if he is under 24.. the idea was to envision the player as he is right now.. is that correct ?? if so and you take lebron as he is now.. he is down the list... definately not better than magic, kobe and hakeem.

its criminal to say that lebron at his age is better than magic was at the same age... that could get one committed.
Lebron has more potential than Magic, Kobe, and Hakeem and if he works hard enough on his game/doesn't get hurt should be better than all 3.
EPiPeN11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2008, 07:06 PM   #1054
Seadood228
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Seadood228's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Rossmoor, CA
Posts: 30,306
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashy Knuckles View Post
how old is lebron ?? if he is under 24.. the idea was to envision the player as he is right now.. is that correct ?? if so and you take lebron as he is now.. he is down the list... definately not better than magic, kobe and hakeem.

its criminal to say that lebron at his age is better than magic was at the same age... that could get one committed.
Be honest, are you Steven A Smith?
Seadood228 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2008, 07:08 PM   #1055
kidcolin
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
kidcolin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: thank god for the hatchery
Posts: 108,763
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

Kobe is def overrated. I really can't get over how everyone overlooks the gaping holes in his game. I think he went about where he should in this thing. Of course, if he played his whole career like this Utah series, I'd be singing a different.

hmm.. I think people might be right about Hakeem. I don't think he's a clear cut 4 pick.. I think where he went is pretty fair. I think Duncan and Hakeem are super close. Pretty similar offensively, slight nod to Hakeem, but despite being the inferior shotblocker I think Duncan is the best defender of like all ****ing time. Best taken so far imo.
kidcolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2008, 07:09 PM   #1056
Jack of Arcades
Jumbo Jack
 
Jack of Arcades's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: The Bastion
Posts: 23,569
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashy Knuckles View Post
how old is lebron ?? if he is under 24.. the idea was to envision the player as he is right now.. is that correct ?? if so and you take lebron as he is now.. he is down the list... definately not better than magic, kobe and hakeem.

its criminal to say that lebron at his age is better than magic was at the same age... that could get one committed.
I am shockingly agreeing with this. Magic was ******edly good.
Jack of Arcades is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2008, 07:10 PM   #1057
fanmail
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
fanmail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Crown Town
Posts: 32,416
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashy Knuckles View Post
how old is lebron ?? if he is under 24.. the idea was to envision the player as he is right now.. is that correct ?? if so and you take lebron as he is now.. he is down the list... definately not better than magic, kobe and hakeem.

its criminal to say that lebron at his age is better than magic was at the same age... that could get one committed.
Wat?
fanmail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2008, 07:10 PM   #1058
SomethingClever
Gorilla Killa
 
SomethingClever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: See profile for book: travel + lols
Posts: 13,213
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

To those who think Kobe went too high/is overrated so far:

Will your opinion change if he wins the title this year, and again in at least one of the next two years?

I haven't been watching the games (not easy to find broadcasts where I am), but I've seen plenty of his game in my day and I have been reading the recaps. He sounds dominant at the moment and the Lakers look to be favorites to win the title.

I can't see how LeBron at 2 and Kobe at 10 or much higher makes sense. Kobe's got all the tools and a competitive streak that's right up there with Jordan's. Put him on a team of greats and I think you're in business against just about anyone.

Yeah, LeBron is great, he's a force of nature physically, he is still likely to improve, etc. But I don't know if he will ever have the mental toughness of Kobe. Just seems like a different personality. Too friendly, not enough stone-cold killer.
SomethingClever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2008, 07:11 PM   #1059
EPiPeN11
banned
 
EPiPeN11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: akon is the goat
Posts: 18,605
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by kidcolin View Post
Kobe is def overrated. I really can't get over how everyone overlooks the gaping holes in his game. I think he went about where he should in this thing. Of course, if he played his whole career like this Utah series, I'd be singing a different.

hmm.. I think people might be right about Hakeem. I don't think he's a clear cut 4 pick.. I think where he went is pretty fair. I think Duncan and Hakeem are super close. Pretty similar offensively, slight nod to Hakeem, but despite being the inferior shotblocker I think Duncan is the best defender of like all ****ing time. Best taken so far imo.
lol @ Kobe being overrated and having gaping holes in his game. And Hakeem is a better defender than Duncan too.
EPiPeN11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2008, 07:11 PM   #1060
fanmail
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
fanmail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Crown Town
Posts: 32,416
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by kidcolin View Post
Kobe is def overrated. I really can't get over how everyone overlooks the gaping holes in his game. I think he went about where he should in this thing. Of course, if he played his whole career like this Utah series, I'd be singing a different.
I don't get this. What are the gaping holes in Kobe's game that I am missing? Serious inquiry, because I think Kobe is top 10 easily, maybe higher.
fanmail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2008, 07:12 PM   #1061
Seadood228
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Seadood228's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Rossmoor, CA
Posts: 30,306
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack of Arcades View Post
Are we disagreeing about DH's upside because I already think he's a top 5 player? Because if he gets even better, he's going to be the 2nd best rebounder of the modern era and one of the biggest offensive power houses ever.
I thought we were disagreeing that DH has an upside. You were making it sound like he wouldn't get any better. Rebounding-wise I see your point. In almost every other category I strongly disagree.
Seadood228 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2008, 07:12 PM   #1062
D104
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
D104's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In a better place.
Posts: 18,272
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by dtemp View Post
Ben Wallace

I cheated.
and yet you still got it wrong. Cheat again.
D104 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2008, 07:16 PM   #1063
cowboy2579
adept
 
cowboy2579's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: 2+2 obv
Posts: 1,104
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by SHARK DOCTOR View Post
My Top 10

1. MJ
2. Shaq
3. Magic
4. Hakeem
5-6 Bird/Duncan
7-8 LBJ/DRob
9-10 Kobe/KG
+1
cowboy2579 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2008, 07:17 PM   #1064
SomethingClever
Gorilla Killa
 
SomethingClever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: See profile for book: travel + lols
Posts: 13,213
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by kidcolin View Post
Kobe is def overrated. I really can't get over how everyone overlooks the gaping holes in his game. I think he went about where he should in this thing. Of course, if he played his whole career like this Utah series, I'd be singing a different.
Colin,

I know you know basketball and I respect your opinions. What do you think are the holes in Kobe's game?

Selfishness? Bad shot selection? What?

I think with the right teammates he can do just about anything.

Keep in mind I hate the ****ing Lakers so I'm no homer by any stretch.
SomethingClever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2008, 07:21 PM   #1065
kidcolin
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
kidcolin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: thank god for the hatchery
Posts: 108,763
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

Quote:
Will your opinion change if he wins the title this year, and again in at least one of the next two years?
Not unless he improves dramatically.. he likely will win at least one title in the next 4 years, quite possibly 2-4 more. But it's because he's on the most stacked team in basketball right now. He isn't playing any better than normal.. Pau Gasol is worth an assload of wins.

I think ~10 is fair for Kobe.. it's Kobe fainbois who thinks he is top 3-5 that tilt me.

I say "gaping holes".. it's not really a "gaping" hole. he's obv incredible. He's been a top 3-5 guy in the league for the past 8 years or so. But the gap between him and Jordan is pretty large. Kobe isn't a supremely efficient scorer. Not by a long shot. Probably due to his decision making more than anything (contested shots, contested 3s when he's not an amazing 3pt shooter). Jordan's CAREER PER is .1 less than Kobe's absolute peak. Kobe's peak win shares above average is 18.. that's one of MJ's weaker marks, who was normally in the mid 20s (phenomenal).

Kobe's never had a season as good as LBJ's or CP3's this year.

It's just something I can't understand.
kidcolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2008, 07:21 PM   #1066
Jack of Arcades
Jumbo Jack
 
Jack of Arcades's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: The Bastion
Posts: 23,569
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by SomethingClever View Post
To those who think Kobe went too high/is overrated so far:

Will your opinion change if he wins the title this year, and again in at least one of the next two years?

I haven't been watching the games (not easy to find broadcasts where I am), but I've seen plenty of his game in my day and I have been reading the recaps. He sounds dominant at the moment and the Lakers look to be favorites to win the title.
The biggest reason Kobe doesn't get pole-vaulted to omg best ever status is that he's simply not as efficient as Jordan. I mean, he's good, but Michael had that huge stretch from his 23-27 seasons that make him stand out. Now maybe if Kobe keeps this up for a while he'll be just a bit below him, but he's never gonna have that stretch where everyone knew it was his world.

People think Lebron has that chance, but as long as he's taking a ton of 3s he won't make it...
Jack of Arcades is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2008, 07:23 PM   #1067
kidcolin
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
kidcolin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: thank god for the hatchery
Posts: 108,763
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by SomethingClever View Post
Colin,

I know you know basketball and I respect your opinions. What do you think are the holes in Kobe's game?

Selfishness? Bad shot selection? What?

I think with the right teammates he can do just about anything.

Keep in mind I hate the ****ing Lakers so I'm no homer by any stretch.
Pretty much shot selection and decision making. He's obv got no holes skill wise or athletically.

Right now, in this Utah series.. he's playing some ******ed ball. Out of this world. If he did 90% of this for a whole season I'd be crowning his ass big time. People think I'm some biased hater. I'm not. I watch games, I look at data, I make an objective decision. He takes too many bad shots, especially 3s.
kidcolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2008, 07:23 PM   #1068
dtemp
veteran
 
dtemp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: NJ
Posts: 3,395
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by D104 View Post
and yet you still got it wrong. Cheat again.
Unless I'm misunderstanding your question, Ben Wallace's 15.42 beats out Malone's 15.31, right?
dtemp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2008, 07:25 PM   #1069
EPiPeN11
banned
 
EPiPeN11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: akon is the goat
Posts: 18,605
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by kidcolin View Post
Not unless he improves dramatically.. he likely will win at least one title in the next 4 years, quite possibly 2-4 more. But it's because he's on the most stacked team in basketball right now. He isn't playing any better than normal.. Pau Gasol is worth an assload of wins.

I think ~10 is fair for Kobe.. it's Kobe fainbois who thinks he is top 3-5 that tilt me.

I say "gaping holes".. it's not really a "gaping" hole. he's obv incredible. He's been a top 3-5 guy in the league for the past 8 years or so. But the gap between him and Jordan is pretty large. Kobe isn't a supremely efficient scorer. Not by a long shot. Probably due to his decision making more than anything (contested shots, contested 3s when he's not an amazing 3pt shooter). Jordan's CAREER PER is .1 less than Kobe's absolute peak. Kobe's peak win shares above average is 18.. that's one of MJ's weaker marks, who was normally in the mid 20s (phenomenal).

Kobe's never had a season as good as LBJ's or CP3's this year.

It's just something I can't understand.
LOL at the Lakers being the most stacked team in basketball, umm Celtics????????

And hes been the BEST player for the last 4-5 years, and thats while Tim Duncan/KG have been in the league too.
EPiPeN11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2008, 07:26 PM   #1070
capone0
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
capone0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Philly
Posts: 43,034
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by D104 View Post
and yet you still got it wrong. Cheat again.
Willis.
capone0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2008, 07:28 PM   #1071
capone0
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
capone0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Philly
Posts: 43,034
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by dtemp View Post
Unless I'm misunderstanding your question, Ben Wallace's 15.42 beats out Malone's 15.31, right?
15.53 beats them both in 1991. He was 2nd in the league but 6th in that era.
capone0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2008, 07:28 PM   #1072
lastchance
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
lastchance's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: You cannot lose if you do not play
Posts: 29,856
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

Over the past 4 years, I think Dirk > Kobe. Over the past 5 years, Garnett definitely > Kobe.

I might be insane (on the first part, going back 5 years gives you Garnett's MVP season and the one immediately after that, and he was GOOD those years).
lastchance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2008, 07:29 PM   #1073
dtemp
veteran
 
dtemp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: NJ
Posts: 3,395
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by capone0 View Post
Willis.
Wow, I'm a ******. I was just looking at the yearly leaders instead of remembering that the second best from one year can still beat the first from another.
dtemp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2008, 07:29 PM   #1074
EPiPeN11
banned
 
EPiPeN11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: akon is the goat
Posts: 18,605
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by lastchance View Post
Over the past 4 years, I think Dirk > Kobe. Over the past 5 years, Garnett definitely > Kobe.

I might be insane.
You are
EPiPeN11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2008, 07:29 PM   #1075
capone0
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
capone0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Philly
Posts: 43,034
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by lastchance View Post
Over the past 4 years, I think Dirk > Kobe. Over the past 5 years, Garnett definitely > Kobe.

I might be insane.
Even if you include defensive game? Kobe >>> Dirk defensively and I hate them both.
capone0 is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive