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Old 05-09-2008, 06:32 PM   #1026
Jack of Arcades
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by ClarkNasty View Post
Just consider how high TMac and Wade would've gone if this had been conducted a few years ago.

There is risk in taking young guys. The reason guys like Malone are so exceptional is because it's just so RARE to be that good that long.
To that extent, CP3 scares me given his height. All the comparisons to Isiah could be a *bad* thing...
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Old 05-09-2008, 06:33 PM   #1027
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by ClarkNasty View Post
Just consider how high TMac and Wade would've gone if this had been conducted a few years ago.

There is risk in taking young guys. The reason guys like Malone are so exceptional is because it's just so RARE to be that good that long.
This is a good point, but I'm not sure it applies to Centers as much. Who was the last center to be great early and not continue that throughout their career? I guess you could say Mourning and Mutombo, but their careers were pretty solid. I'm sure that I'm missing someone..
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Old 05-09-2008, 06:33 PM   #1028
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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I see no reason to believe that Dwight Howard will continue to improve. It really doesn't happen too often in any sport. Players who are great early tend to peak. The only guy I can think of that really took his game to the next level was Jordan.
yea, disagree.

Also you're not factoring in that until recently players have gone to college for 3 or 4 years, so their first few years at at ages 22-25. When your first few years are at ages 18-21 I think you still have room for growth.
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Old 05-09-2008, 06:33 PM   #1029
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Seadood228 View Post
Just curious Assani, where would you have taken Duncan?
I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess #6.
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Old 05-09-2008, 06:36 PM   #1030
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Seadood228 View Post
This is a good point, but I'm not sure it applies to Centers as much. Who was the last center to be great early and not continue that throughout their career? I guess you could say Mourning and Mutombo, but their careers were pretty solid. I'm sure that I'm missing someone..
yao ming. brad daugherty. big men are very susceptible to injury. lotta stress on those bodies being huge.
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Old 05-09-2008, 06:37 PM   #1031
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Seadood228 View Post
Just curious Assani, where would you have taken Duncan?
Heres how I'd rank the players taken so far and how I would've drafted them:

1. MJ
2. Lebron
3. Shaq
4. Duncan
5. Bird
6. Hakeem
7. Magic
8. Robinson
9. KG
10. Kobe
11. Stockton
12. CP3
13. Malone
14. Dirk
15. Howard
16. Barkley
17. Zeke
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Old 05-09-2008, 06:40 PM   #1032
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

Isn't Yao's problem more injury related? Isn't he a stud when he's actually on the court?
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Old 05-09-2008, 06:40 PM   #1033
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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yao ming. brad daugherty. big men are very susceptible to injury. lotta stress on those bodies being huge.
Sorry maybe I should have been more clear. I was actually referring to centers who've declined naturally after being considered hot s**t at a young age. Injuries are a concern for any center, but given the criteria for this draft, Dwight should be the guy with the least concerns.
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Old 05-09-2008, 06:43 PM   #1034
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

Interesting Chris Paul Article

Quote:
......
(Predrdaft workouts)
So we pull up the gym and Chris is waiting outside and I see his eyes just light up, because not only is he working out with someone, he’s working out with Gilbert Arenas who is like a top seven player in the NBA. He was excited to finally get to go and battle.

The first half an hour we just did a lot of drills and stuff, and the last half an hour we did a lot of competitive drills with a lot of 1-on-1 and spots. I probably want to say Chris won every single game. Now, 1-on-1 doesn’t mean much, but it does mean something. When you’re a 19-year old kid and you’re going up against a top six or seven player in the NBA and you don’t back down, you’re just ferocious.

After the workout Gilbert came up to me and was like, “That kid is going to be special.” To this day, Chris and Gilbert are very good friends. But that minute kind of showed me that there’s no fear in him.
......
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Old 05-09-2008, 06:43 PM   #1035
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
yea, disagree.

Also you're not factoring in that until recently players have gone to college for 3 or 4 years, so their first few years at at ages 22-25. When your first few years are at ages 18-21 I think you still have room for growth.
I'm not discounting the idea that Dwight could get a little better. Like I said, I guess he could take a few more shots per game and up the scoring to 25 or so points per game, but do you expect him to grab 16 boards/game next season?
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Old 05-09-2008, 06:44 PM   #1036
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
Heres how I'd rank the players taken so far and how I would've drafted them:

1. MJ
2. Lebron
3. Shaq
4. Duncan
5. Bird
6. Hakeem
7. Magic
8. Robinson
9. KG
10. Kobe
11. Stockton
12. CP3
13. Malone
14. Dirk
15. Howard
16. Barkley
17. Zeke
I think you terribly underrate Barkley. Robinson's underrated (I'm biased). Kobe is overrated.
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Old 05-09-2008, 06:48 PM   #1037
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

I take Barkley over Malone and Dirk personally...and Shaq is def 2nd overall
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Old 05-09-2008, 06:49 PM   #1038
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

Barkley over Malone is nuts, IMO.
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Old 05-09-2008, 06:51 PM   #1039
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

Just looked at RPG stats post 1980.

Man, Rodman was such a sick rebounder. 18.66 per game in 91-92!

Trivia time! Rodman owns the top 5 rebounds per game seasons post 1980. Who is #6?

D

PS Of players eligible for this draft, Howard has the 4th best rebounding season of non-Rodman players.
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Old 05-09-2008, 06:51 PM   #1040
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Seadood228 View Post
Sorry maybe I should have been more clear. I was actually referring to centers who've declined naturally after being considered hot s**t at a young age. Injuries are a concern for any center, but given the criteria for this draft, Dwight should be the guy with the least concerns.
My primary concerns are injuries. I don't know why you don't think injuries shouldn't be too concerned. Shaq didn't miss much time in his first few seasons, either. Nor did Yao Ming or Brad Daugherty.
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Old 05-09-2008, 06:52 PM   #1041
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Victor View Post
yao ming. brad daugherty. big men are very susceptible to injury. lotta stress on those bodies being huge.
true, but this also includes the ones who were (relatively) injury free during the actual careers. in the context of the simulation they are certainly at less risk of sustaining injury than guys like yao, but there is the concern that duncan ends up like big Z as well as the potential that someone like yao stays healthy and explodes. a lot of us could be being fooled by randomness in that regard

edit:
Quote:
Shaq didn't miss much time in his first few seasons, either. Nor did Yao Ming or Brad Daugherty.
exactly. did yao get unlucky in '05 and sustain an injury that could hamper him for the next 10 years, or was he lucky to have been healthy his first 3 years?
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Old 05-09-2008, 06:53 PM   #1042
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
Heres how I'd rank the players taken so far and how I would've drafted them:

1. MJ
2. Lebron
3. Shaq
4. Duncan
5. Bird
6. Hakeem
7. Magic
8. Robinson
9. KG
10. Kobe
11. Stockton
12. CP3
13. Malone
14. Dirk
15. Howard
16. Barkley
17. Zeke
I think the actual order is way better than th is list. I know you have a man crush on Duncan but there is no way he should be higher than Magic or Hakeem,. Seriously Magic at 7?? LBJ over Shaq is prety questionable too, Shaq is a one-of-a kind player, we will probably see the next Jordan well before we see the next Shaq. Barkley at 16 is a crime, I know he was my pick but putting Dirk over him is laughable, Barkley was a clutch player with about 1000x more intensity than Dirk and if you put him on that 2006 Mavs team it's a sweep and Barkley has his ring. And Howard over him is pretty dubious too, we're talking about someone who has had one star-caliber season, and is still largely unknown, whereas Barkley at age 24 was coming off a 23/14 season and the next six years he averaged 26/12/4 despite never playing with another star in their prime to draw any attention away from him or dish him the ball like Stockton with Malone, and you can't discount the intangibles - remember he was always matched up against guys taller than him and was still probably the best rebounding forward in the league during his prime. The other picks have a lot more what-ifs attached to them and are thus "riskier".
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Old 05-09-2008, 06:55 PM   #1043
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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Oh, OK, I guess I'm ******ed. I still think Howard has a good shot to never be as good as he was last year and given his body type he might not last as long as guys taken earlier in the draft.

yeah thats ******ed.

only way he does not get better is if he does not work on his game in the off season. he does not seem to be that kind of fella. he has the potential to be mentioned along with russell, jabbarr, chamberlian, oneal and hakeem.


imo.. you all underrate hakeem.
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Old 05-09-2008, 06:56 PM   #1044
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarkNasty View Post
Just consider how high TMac and Wade would've gone if this had been conducted a few years ago.

There is risk in taking young guys. The reason guys like Malone are so exceptional is because it's just so RARE to be that good that long.
I largely agree.. but Ewing is the only big man left in that category (Parish ineligible WTF Assani grandfather him in!) I just think Dwight's current body of work + his upside + keeping himself in insane shape leads me to slightly favor Dwight.
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Old 05-09-2008, 06:58 PM   #1045
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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imo.. you all underrate hakeem.
agree, I would only take Jordan, Shaq, and Lebron over Hakeem.
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Old 05-09-2008, 06:59 PM   #1046
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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My primary concerns are injuries. I don't know why you don't think injuries shouldn't be too concerned. Shaq didn't miss much time in his first few seasons, either. Nor did Yao Ming or Brad Daugherty.
Why should we be concerned about Howard's injurys over any other center? He hasn't missed a game in his entire life according to his HS coach. I think that alone puts him above every other big man in the "injury concern" department. Well perhaps excluding German Jesus but that guy is basically a robot.

I don't see how we can ding someone for injury concerns when their record to this date has been perfect.
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Old 05-09-2008, 07:00 PM   #1047
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by D104 View Post
Just looked at RPG stats post 1980.

Man, Rodman was such a sick rebounder. 18.66 per game in 91-92!

Trivia time! Rodman owns the top 5 rebounds per game seasons post 1980. Who is #6?

D

PS Of players eligible for this draft, Howard has the 4th best rebounding season of non-Rodman players.
Ben Wallace

I cheated.
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Old 05-09-2008, 07:01 PM   #1048
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

Quote:
I know you have a man crush on Duncan but there is no way he should be higher than Magic or Hakeem
it's really, really close b/t duncan and hakeem
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Old 05-09-2008, 07:01 PM   #1049
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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I think you terribly underrate Barkley. Robinson's underrated (I'm biased). Kobe is overrated.
Not sure Robinson could be any higher, agreed on Barkley. Kobe, if anything, is underrated.
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Old 05-09-2008, 07:01 PM   #1050
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

My Top 10

1. MJ
2. Shaq
3. Magic
4. Hakeem
5-6 Bird/Duncan
7-8 LBJ/DRob
9-10 Kobe/KG
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