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Old 05-09-2008, 04:19 PM   #1001
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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FT shooting is not overrated. You want your best player taking that final shot in a close game. Its really difficult to do that if all the the defense has to do is foul to cut his production by 40 or 50% (not actual numbers since there will be and 1's but you get the point). Shaq found himself benched during these situations a lot more than a player of his caliber should. All because of his poor ft shooting.

Dwight is still a good pick though.
It's also not that critical. Both the Lakers and a couple of the Spurs teams were bottom 3 in the league for years and still competed and won titles with Shaq and Duncan at the helm. FT shooting maybe isn't overrated but it isn't as important as other things. Post defender I think is really important for any team. I can't remember a team to win without a good/great one. Even the Bulls scrub group had some great post defenders including Rodman and Grant.
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Old 05-09-2008, 04:28 PM   #1002
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

Fair enough.

So you think Howard currently is a better defender than Ewing was? Just curious. Hope I don't sound mean spirited.
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Old 05-09-2008, 04:36 PM   #1003
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

Ewing was also a great defender. Just looked up the stats, maybe he is better (Ewing), although Dwight is a better rebounder.
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Old 05-09-2008, 04:37 PM   #1004
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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Fair enough.

So you think Howard currently is a better defender than Ewing was?
lol.

also looking at the stats, Ewing was an equivalently elite defensive rebounder as Howard, but was never spectacular on the offensive glass

Last edited by KLJ; 05-09-2008 at 04:46 PM.
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Old 05-09-2008, 05:25 PM   #1005
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

I was thinking Ewing, when I said NBA's ugliest player. But yeah I suppose Cassel surpasses him. Pippen is right up there too.
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Old 05-09-2008, 05:28 PM   #1006
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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I was thinking Ewing, when I said NBA's ugliest player. But yeah I suppose Cassel surpasses him. Pippen is right up there too.
Can't really fault Cassell, he not from this planet.

Oh, and Muresan FTW.

D
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Old 05-09-2008, 05:33 PM   #1007
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

I will prob be looking to trade down asssuming that the 2 guys I want will not be there when I pick (very probable).

If anyone has a pick in the first round and wants to discuss a trade pm me. (I have the 5th pick from now).
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Old 05-09-2008, 05:43 PM   #1008
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

quick half round recap:
1 MJ
2 Shaq
3 LBJ
4 Magic
5 Bird
6 Duncan
7 Dream
8 Admiral
9 KG
10 Kobe
11 CP3
12 Mailman
13 Sir Charles
14 Stockton
15 Isiah
16 Dirk
17 Dwight
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Old 05-09-2008, 05:52 PM   #1009
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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Yea, I think its pretty clear that you are correct.
so is Dwight still a LOL pick at 17 like he was at 13?
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Old 05-09-2008, 05:57 PM   #1010
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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i'm sorta shocked he hasn't gone already

not sure why you don't think it's likely. Dwight's already a much more accomplished rebounder than Ewing ever was. And he dunks at will almost. And he's only 22. I actually think it's fairly likely.
This.

Based on the Assani's criteria, I would have thought he'd go right after KG. I was debating picking him up. Of all the "young" players you could pick, this guy has probably shown the greatest improvement from year to year, and still has a ton of room for improvement--which given his current trend its almost a given that he'll continue to improve. The fact that he's a power center and it being taught by one of the great footwork/shooting centers can only be a plus. Honestly, I think it's a complete steal at this spot.

His FT shooting is not good, but his mechanics are decent and he's shown that he can make them in bunches. And inconsistency is something that you tend to improve on with practice.

I'd put him above Ewing because he's already had a season that ranks among Ewings top 3, and his skills have been on the incline pretty much every year.

Last edited by Seadood228; 05-09-2008 at 06:03 PM.
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Old 05-09-2008, 06:03 PM   #1011
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

Biggest problem I have with the DH pick has to due with the he's probably already peaked, and you don't get him until he's 24. So you're already missing out, on, presumably two of his best years.

Of course, he could be Shaq and it won't really matter.
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Old 05-09-2008, 06:03 PM   #1012
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

I think you get Howard as he is RIGHT NOW, not when he's 24 or w/e. Should make a pretty big difference..

But if he's peaked, yeah, Ewing's a lot better. But I think it's pretty reasonable to think he hasn't peaked yet.
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Old 05-09-2008, 06:06 PM   #1013
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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Biggest problem I have with the DH pick has to due with the he's probably already peaked, and you don't get him until he's 24. So you're already missing out, on, presumably two of his best years.

Of course, he could be Shaq and it won't really matter.

To avoid confusion, lets just say that you get each player at the age of 24. For current players who are younger than that, you get them at their current age. For players who didn't enter the NBA until later than age 24, you get them at the age in which they entered.
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Old 05-09-2008, 06:07 PM   #1014
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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Biggest problem I have with the DH pick has to due with the he's probably already peaked, and you don't get him until he's 24. So you're already missing out, on, presumably two of his best years.

Of course, he could be Shaq and it won't really matter.
You think he's peaked? I think he gets more skilled every time I see him. From a statistical standpoint, his PER has gone up at ~2 every year. I think we'll see similar increases for the next few years.
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Old 05-09-2008, 06:08 PM   #1015
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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This.

Based on the Assani's criteria, I would have thought he'd go right after KG. I was debating picking him up. Of all the "young" players you could pick, this guy has probably shown the greatest improvement from year to year, and still has a ton of room for improvement--which given his current trend its almost a given that he'll continue to improve. The fact that he's a power center and it being taught by one of the great footwork/shooting centers can only be a plus. Honestly, I think it's a complete steal at this spot.

His FT shooting is not good, but his mechanics are decent and he's shown that he can make them in bunches. And inconsistency is something that you tend to improve on with practice.

I'd put him above Ewing because he's already had a season that ranks among Ewings top 3, and his skills have been on the incline pretty much every year.
I see no reason to believe that Dwight Howard will continue to improve. It really doesn't happen too often in any sport. Players who are great early tend to peak. The only guy I can think of that really took his game to the next level was Jordan.
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Old 05-09-2008, 06:10 PM   #1016
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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To avoid confusion, lets just say that you get each player at the age of 24. For current players who are younger than that, you get them at their current age. For players who didn't enter the NBA until later than age 24, you get them at the age in which they entered.
Oh, OK, I guess I'm ******ed. I still think Howard has a good shot to never be as good as he was last year and given his body type he might not last as long as guys taken earlier in the draft.
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Old 05-09-2008, 06:12 PM   #1017
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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You think he's peaked? I think he gets more skilled every time I see him. From a statistical standpoint, his PER has gone up at ~2 every year. I think we'll see similar increases for the next few years.
He'll probably shoot more, but I can't imagine him getting more rebounds or shooting at a higher percentage.
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Old 05-09-2008, 06:16 PM   #1018
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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finally, my opinion of players are swayed heavily by what they did when the pressure was the greatest. its a big difference sinking a 3 vs sinking a 3 when its the most important shot you ever took in your life.
In other words, your impression of players comes from a completely meaningless and small sample size while you ignore their larger body of work that wasn't in "clutch situations."

I think I disagree with every word you've written in this thread.
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Old 05-09-2008, 06:19 PM   #1019
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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I see no reason to believe that Dwight Howard will continue to improve. It really doesn't happen too often in any sport. Players who are great early tend to peak. The only guy I can think of that really took his game to the next level was Jordan.
Really? I must say I'm a bit shocked you'd say that. If he were a wing player, I could see your point, but I think a center, particularly one of Dwight's build, is much different. There are a ton of attributes he can improve (jump shot, footwork, passing, etc), and from what we've seen he's gotten considerably better at all of them on a yearly basis. He's almost as physically dominant as Shaq, but will most likely develop into a better finesse player based on his good mechanics. The fact that he's yet to miss a game bodes pretty well for his longevity, as well.

Perhaps I'm mancrushing the guy a bit much, but I think he's going to be one of the all-time greats..
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Old 05-09-2008, 06:21 PM   #1020
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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What does everyone think of Dwight Howard? I think it's a homer pick, but I def like it more than Isiah.
I thought Dwight was a very good pick. Dirk too. I think Isiah went about 20 spots too high.
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Old 05-09-2008, 06:24 PM   #1021
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

I remember people saying the same thing about STAT when he was so dominant so young, and he's a much better player today than 4 years ago. Many will put this down to the injury forcing him to expand his game, but I bet he would have added outside skills & FT shooting anyway (just as DH is trying to do now). Put me down for "DH gets better".
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Old 05-09-2008, 06:27 PM   #1022
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

STAT?
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Old 05-09-2008, 06:29 PM   #1023
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

Just consider how high TMac and Wade would've gone if this had been conducted a few years ago.

There is risk in taking young guys. The reason guys like Malone are so exceptional is because it's just so RARE to be that good that long.
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Old 05-09-2008, 06:29 PM   #1024
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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I thought Dwight was a very good pick. Dirk too. I think Isiah went about 20 spots too high.
Just curious Assani, where would you have taken Duncan?
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Old 05-09-2008, 06:29 PM   #1025
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

STAT is Amare Stoudemire. It stands for "Standing Tall and Talented."

I think Amare has improved, but to call him a much better player is a bit of a stretch.
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