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Old 06-03-2008, 01:52 AM   #10051
tbach24
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by kidcolin View Post
lol @ you bringing up injury prone.

I think for a quality guy like Brandon, it's worth rolling the dice on and picking up some solid/unimpressive backup. It's not like Shaq needs 4 other + players. The squads he won rings with were excellent wing man and pieces that ranges from solid -> slightly below average.

Which is more why I hate the Coleman pick.
Um...I think you just proved my point. He already had an excellent wingman in EJ, so why'd he need a troubled player like Coleman and a guy who was out of the lineup a lot during his prime and then retired at 31?

Also, congrats on being a d-bag. Just because I have a guy who got injured doesn't mean I can't say the same about others.

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Old 06-03-2008, 01:55 AM   #10052
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

maybe you're right since Brandon shot a lot just go with Mark Jackson.
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Old 06-03-2008, 01:59 AM   #10053
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Looking back on those Nets teams though, they weren't that good offensively like I remembered, but had a couple #1 years in a row defensively. Shows how good Kidd and KMart were defensively.
they had some help.

actually let me clarify: one of the years, kmart was easily the 4th best defender.
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Old 06-03-2008, 02:00 AM   #10054
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

that Mark Jackson mix is really the best thing on youtube
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Old 06-03-2008, 02:02 AM   #10055
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Now you're making sense. Bobbo got lucky and just needed to make safe picks like the EJ one to continue with this draft. Instead he goes for Coleman when a guy like PJ Brown would've been available (at the pick he had before the trade!) and then goes for Brandon over a sure bet like Jackson.
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Old 06-03-2008, 02:04 AM   #10056
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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that Mark Jackson mix is really the best thing on youtube
apparently you've never seen iheart's Scalabrine interview
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Old 06-03-2008, 02:30 AM   #10057
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I'm taking Fat LEver. The main reason is that he's still available (pick 163??!!!)
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Old 06-03-2008, 02:37 AM   #10058
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I'm taking Fat LEver. The main reason is that he's still available (pick 163??!!!)
Awesome pick.
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Old 06-03-2008, 02:58 AM   #10059
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

denver stats scare me
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Old 06-03-2008, 03:03 AM   #10060
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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denver stats scare me
James'stats with Lever at the point will be scarier IMO
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Old 06-03-2008, 03:55 AM   #10061
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Now THIS is a team. That team would be top 3 in the NBA basically any year.
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Old 06-03-2008, 04:18 AM   #10062
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

IDK, I'm going back and forth on the Lafayette pick. I grew up watching him and loved him, and am a bit concerned about the fit.

Right now you've got three guys in Lebron, Fat, and Drazen that all do most of their damage when they have the ball. Not only that, but Lever was one of those high volume/low efficiency guys, who just happened to be on a team full of high volume/high efficiency players. This would lead me to believe that Fat would still get a relatively high number of inefficient shots up regardless of who's around him. My gut tells me that you'd have been better off taking someone who is a more efficient jump-shooter, or at least someone who didn't take as many shots.

but.... You've got the makings of a solid defensive squad and Fat Lever was an excellent defender at both guard positions. Also, having a slasher like this could do wonders for opening up Lebron's game. Lebron's not a low post guy, so spacing and guard 3 point shooting isn't as important, and I could see how having a penetrator like Lever could really open things up offensively.
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Old 06-03-2008, 04:30 AM   #10063
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

decent value but im not sure about fit. he'd be great on a team that needs a rebounder - he's like jason kidd lite. he def was high up on value from the PG shot, but he just wasn't that good aside from rebounding.. and you dont need boarding for your team... and you dont really need passing.. and those are his 2 best assets...

still, anyone with a nickname of "fat" is ok in my book
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Old 06-03-2008, 04:32 AM   #10064
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Not really a counterpoint.

O'Neal's usage has been in the 25-35% range. He's not good enough to pull this off efficiently. It doesn't matter if Reggie was on his team, because however the other 70% of shots were taken, O'Neal was still asked to play way above himself offensively.

I don't expect him to have higher than a 15% usage rate on my team. Also, he's never had teammates that can set him up and get him the ball in his scoring zone half as well as my team can.

It seems really fair to me that we should assume O'Neal's efficiency numbers would skyrocket on my squad.
not a fair assumption that usage goes down efficiency goes up. o'neal had a high usage because he shoots alot. you really think on your team he's going to start NOT shooting alot? not buying it.
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Old 06-03-2008, 04:34 AM   #10065
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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It was one of those things at the time that was overlooked because Kidd looked so pretty on the fast break and was a media darling (despite being a wife abuser).

Also, could you address your problems with Durant? I still don't get why you don't like him.
i dont like him bc wqhen you get him you get an avg nba player. there is no gaurntee he gets really good. it's a gamble. i guess im gambkle averse.\
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Old 06-03-2008, 04:35 AM   #10066
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I didn't like the Brandon pick either. Guy was too injury prone. Any team that luckboxed their way into one of the studs (especially Jordan or Shaq) should've tried to build to be competitive for as long as they could.
are you ****ing kidding me\/
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Old 06-03-2008, 04:36 AM   #10067
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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lol @ you bringing up injury prone.

I think for a quality guy like Brandon, it's worth rolling the dice on and picking up some solid/unimpressive backup. It's not like Shaq needs 4 other + players. The squads he won rings with were excellent wing man and pieces that ranges from solid -> slightly below average.

Which is more why I hate the Coleman pick.
i dont see why adding one questionable character defualts my team. dude was ****ing SKILLED. so i have on question mark, the rest of my guys are quality locker room (TB won a sportsmanship award~ so did EJ(
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Old 06-03-2008, 04:37 AM   #10068
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Honestly , I had the same concerns, but
- He’s on a team with two high volume high efficiency guy
- I needed a big point who could defend both guard positions and take Petrovic’s man if necessary
- He’s a much better player than any of the more efficient jump shooter players available. His unique set of skills is much more valuable to my team than an efficient jumpshooter. Having Lever on my team allows me to run and have a great fastbreak. I will be able to add role players later while losing very little value compared to the more efficient guys I could have had now. Going in this direction gives me more options.
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Old 06-03-2008, 04:38 AM   #10069
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by tbach24 View Post
Now you're making sense. Bobbo got lucky and just needed to make safe picks like the EJ one to continue with this draft. Instead he goes for Coleman when a guy like PJ Brown would've been available (at the pick he had before the trade!) and then goes for Brandon over a sure bet like Jackson.
dont now why my team is getting so much play but playa plzzzzzz my team will **** you up saon
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Old 06-03-2008, 04:41 AM   #10070
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by horizon View Post
Honestly , I had the same concerns, but
- He’s on a team with two high volume high efficiency guy
- I needed a big point who could defend both guard positions and take Petrovic’s man if necessary
- He’s a much better player than any of the more efficient jump shooter players available. His unique set of skills is much more valuable to my team than an efficient jumpshooter. Having Lever on my team allows me to run and have a great fastbreak. I will be able to add role players later while losing very little value compared to the more efficient guys I could have had now. Going in this direction gives me more options.
I think these are all valid points. As is the fact that, as a passer, he's very efficient with a 3+/1 assist/turnover ratio.
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Old 06-03-2008, 05:16 AM   #10071
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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not a fair assumption that usage goes down efficiency goes up. o'neal had a high usage because he shoots alot. you really think on your team he's going to start NOT shooting alot? not buying it.
I don't see why you wouldn't buy it. I'm not going to be running my offense through him so there's basically no way he gets the chance to have a 30% usage.

Small sample size, but in the tournament of the Americas in 2003, when Jermaine helped the U.S. qualify for the Olympics his usage per 36 minutes went down and he shot .613 from the field (FG%, not TS%), which made him the second most efficient shooter on the American team.

I don't expect him to have that kind of turnaround but this does help illustrate that Jermaine is willing to only take good shots when given the opportunity to do so.

On my team he's going to be the 4th or 5th best scorer and our defensive anchor. Do you really think he can't accept that roll? If so, I would say that your estimation of Jermaine's character is way off.
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Old 06-03-2008, 05:20 AM   #10072
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Didn't the US shoot something like 80% in that olympic qualifying thingt they had to do? It's easy to put up big numbers when you're always getting open shots.
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Old 06-03-2008, 05:30 AM   #10073
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Didn't the US shoot something like 80% in that olympic qualifying thingt they had to do? It's easy to put up big numbers when you're always getting open shots.
Jermaine was the second most efficient player on the US team, so, no they don't shoot 80%.

Really though, the point I was illustrating is that his usage went down and his efficiency compared to his peers went way up. Obviously he would never shoot 60% in a real league, but he was more efficient than many other Americans (including Duncan) over a 4-game stretch. More important than numbers over a small sample size (which don't mean that much without context) is the fact that he played the roll he was asked and played it very well when surrounded by superior offensive talent. He did not chuck and get lucky; he played good offensive sets and only took good shots. So Bobbo claiming that he can't do that is wrong, in my opinion.

It's not exactly proof beyond a reasonable doubt, but it's the only time I could find where Jermaine played competitive ball and didn't have the offense run through him, so it's the only evidence we have.
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Old 06-03-2008, 05:56 AM   #10074
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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actually he nailed it
meh, yea I see what you mean, but 10,001 is a fail imo.
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Old 06-03-2008, 05:58 AM   #10075
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Also, could you address your problems with Durant? I still don't get why you don't like him.
+1

btw, when I made my list of steals I forgot about Mullin. I think he'd come in at #4, so it'd be:

1. Durant
2. Moncrief
3. Deron
4. Mullin
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