The one fear about Brent Barry is for whatever reason, he never played a ton of minutes. Career 26.6, only 1 season >36min (as a 30yr old in Seattle). Not sure WHY this is, but you can't play him for more than 30 mins or so. (As a 24yr old, he played 24mpg for the record) I do like him quite a bit tho.

haha, I agree, good observation.

I agree with this, KD is better on a team where everyone "grows together," on Tbach's team, Sabonis will be retired by the time KD is a productive player.


this makes sense, but would rather discuss this in the post-draft thread.

Kaman peaked this year. He will likely plateau and continue his ~17PER with above avg. defense for another 3 years. So, you get an above average starting center, but nothing spectacular. Biedrins is getting better and even at this age is basically even in value. I think he IS a top 10 center already.

I think this is a good post. And also, "stats are overblown" is a stupid comment. No, stats are good when used correctly. And there are some players who "win games" for you, but those same players have a tendency for "losing games" for you, too.

lol, nice on battschr.

This wasn't directed at me, but since I'm a Warriors fan, (I know you are too, so you're asking this sarcastically) and I watched a ton of games (not to mention went to a bunch of games the year before) - they have one of the best offenses. Their PD wasn't great, in fact I think they got a little lucky to win 48 (double checking Pythagorean, they were supposed to be 47-35, so i guess they didnt even run that cold) but they ARE one of the most efficient offenses. Baron, Monta, Biedrins - what a sick offensive squad. They didn't have the BEST offense (their fast pace exacerbated their offense and made it seem like their defense was even worse) but they obviously are a "good" team. Unfortunate for them there were 8 better Western teams.

This is really funny.

me too, but i'm glad it's over.

You were skipped IMO

Yeah, his defense sucks, alot of the problem is Baron/Monta is a small backcourt. They had Baron defend the 2, but whenever Monta gets switched he is weak, small, and as quick as he is on offense, he's not that quick defensively. He will learn I think tho, since he's so young and athletic.

I agree with this, someone else (Xorbie?) said they can still spread the floor bc of great midrange game, and that's true, but you can still sag off them a little bit.


+1

lol, this is about "which team will match up with Tbach". And, well, we're not done drafting, so your claims of having the best team are dumbfounding. You are worse than Epi in terms of homerism.

true greats are unaffected, though he probably launched more 3s than he needed to.

I agree, very good pickings people. Not really any memorable blowups.

Huh? The warriors hardly shot poorly. They were a very good offensive team. Very good passing team. Clearly Wade/Ellis are not a bad combo offensively, but they are hardly elite either. (As a pairing)

+1, good post AF.

LOL.

Again, AF with a good post.

Nice one here too. Not much to add, just my opinion is the same here.

Yeah, Yao will need help here.

Yeppo, his peak came quickly.

How do people not know who Calvin Natt was?? Good player, not a made up guy.

Exactly. (read above)

What?? Why do people say this? He's not that good!!

really don't get your hate for Granger dude.

haha... (About natt bc no one knew who he was)

I agree.

I agree.

Hmm, I think Webber and Brand are very similar players. (In raw value) How they reach that value is different, though. Webber is underrated on this board though. Deron was great value in this draft for sure.

Yeah, this is a dumb statement. Horry has been a winner everywhere he's been - so what?

I don't get statements like this in general. This leads to too much speculation. In my mind, KG >> Bosh, and I'm not going to dwell on it further.

Checking out 82games.com, his +/- numbers have been horrible for a supposed good player on a mediocre to bad team. That's at least one thing to give pause about Granger.

Yeah, I think AF got owned hardcore in Brandgate. I still have faith though.

People dont mention this, but yeah, although he hasn't been in the playoffs much (only once!) he did alot when there.

Exactly, approximately = close, this was not close.

Certainly safe, but doesnt mean good.

LOL, I think one or two more around.

But the draft was getting them at 24. Any other speculation is meaningless.

Just to be clear on this, you get him at his current age, which is now. So you get him having had the rookie year experience already.

Personally, taking a look at Lebron's first and second years and seeing the similarity in how Durant improved over his first year, I think its a great pick. Probably my steal of the draft so far. I'd go:

1. Durant
2. Moncrief
3. Deron Williams

BB always struck me as a great role player, but never more. JR has a similar skill set, but I think he has more capability to handle 'the load', for whatever reason. In terms of who is the better role player to fill a 3rd/4th option, I agree they're pretty comparable (not compatible right?).

JR has been a lot more durable (evidenced as being able to play big minutes) and still produce "fairly efficiently" as i said earlier.

i think i wrote earlier ITT that my "rating" of Kaman was based solely on his last year (read: year without Brand). As someone who watched a ton of his games on FSNw this year, I think you underrate his jumpshot. I also think that PJ Brown's 'type' is more common in this draft than Kaman's 'type', but that's a longer story.

Assani,

Can I draft Billy Paultz?

you'll have to trade up over me first

We should do this draft every year and lol at how everyone changes positions from year to year.

Round 4, Wildcard Pick

Billy "The Whopper" Paultz

El mito improbable





The Whopper

Listed at only 6'11", anyone who ever saw this monster play knows that he was at least 7'1". He towered over Robert Parish in a dominating tour de force in the 1981 NBA Finals. A monster during his career, he had a PER above 15 for 9 years, peaking over 20 in his prime. A 15 and 10 guy for much of his career, he was a monster on defense as well, and able to pass well out of the high post. A 3-time ABA all star, he helped lead the Houston Rockets to the NBA finals, pushing the Celtics to 6-games alongside Moses Malone.

I'm fairly certain he could clean and jerk 400 lbs

But could he backlift 6,000?

undocumented but he most likely did

It's at least 90% probable in my mind, that even if he never tried, he had a 83% chance of doing it.

I'm a little disappointed that Bobbo is now using mult-quote.

Also, I like Granger over Howard by a decent amount because Granger, in my opinion, will have a much better career shooting from deep, which I feel is extremely important for a #2 option, especially if your #1 does not.

Also, I'm sold that DG is the man when it comes to work ethic and being the face of his franchise... and JHow, well that's all been documented.

Plus DG is bigger and longer, and I just love hit shooting form, my second favorite in the NBA today.

Whopper was an ardent surfer! And he played with Rick Barry. Brent Barry is also an ardent surfer. Paternity inquiry is needed. Rick was a crappy chucker, Paultz is the real deal. He's gotta be Brent Mother****ing Barry's real dad. It'd also explain while Rick's other kids ****ing suck.

I will do an assessment, but am interested in reading others first.

Right, tough to make any sort of assessment without a bench, but you know what? We were making assessments after seeing a TWO MAN team, so by all means, we'll do it for 5.

Natt was high up on my BPA list too; picking Deron top 50 can't be too wrong; agree that if you're not within striking distance of a random NBA year (top 5 qualifies) you probably drafted poorly.


I'll break it down statistically. Also, we're using the Kings as the "closest team comparison"... But I'm not sure they're the best benchmarks. However, if we can deem fanmail's team is on par (or better) than that Kings team, it certainly qualifies as a top 5 contender, and therefore is not a fail. (Will do it below)

Agree, but will crunch numbers anyway.

Agree here. So:
2001-2002 Sacramento Kings
PG - Mike Bibby, 80 games age 23, 33.2 mpg, 12.3 FGA/2.4 FTA. 2.8 RPG, 5.0 APG, 1.7 TOPG (13.7 PPG). 107 ORtg/105 DRtg, 14.9 PER.
SG - Doug Christie, 81games age 31, 34.5 mpg, 9.1 FGA/3.0 FTA. 4.6 RPG, 4.2 APG, 2.0 TOPG (12 PPG). 112 ORtg/101 DRtg 15.2 PER
SF - Peja Stojakovic, 71games age 24, 37.3 mpg, 15.9 FGA/4.5 FTA. 5.3 RPG, 2.5 APG, 2.0 TOPG (21.2 PPG) 115 ORtg/104 DRtg 19.3 PER
PF - Chris Webber, 54games age 28. 38.4 mpg, 19.9 FGA/6.3 FTA. 10.1 RPG, 4.8 APG, 2.9 TOPG, 3.2 PFPG. (24.5 PPG) 109 ORtg/98 DRtg 24.4 PER.
C - Vlade Divac, 81 games age 32. 29.9 mpg, 9.3 FGA/4.3 FTA. 8.3 RPG, 2.9 APG, 2.4 TOPG, 3.0 PFPG (12 PPG) 105 ORtg/97 DRtg 17.7 PER.

"Total" - 34.6 MPG (72% of the game starting 5 played)
66.5 FGA/20.5 FTA 83.4 PPG. (~115.8/game)
31.3 RPG/19.8 APG/10 TOPG
109.6 ORtg / 101 DRtg / 18.3 avg PER




2007-2008 Fanmail Kings
PG - Joe Dumars, 82 games age 24, 33.3 mpg, 11.7 FGA/3.8 FTA. 2.4 RPG, 4.7 APG, 2.1 TOPG, 1.9 PFPG (14.2 PPG) 109 ORtg/108 DRtg 13.7 PER.
SG - Rolando Blackman, 81 games age 24, 37.3 mpg, 16.3 FGA/5.7 FTA. 4.6 RPG, 3.6 APG, 2.1 TOPG (22.4 PPG) 119 ORtg/112 DRtg 19.8 PER.
SF - Josh Howard, 76 games age 24, 32.2 mpg, 10.4 FGA/3.1 FTA. 6.4 RPG, 1.4 APG, 1.6 TOPG (12.6 PPG) 108 ORtg/103 DRtg 15.8 PER
PF - Chris Webber, 71games age 24. 39.6 mpg, 18.9 FGA/4.7 FTA. 9.5 RPG, 3.8 APG, 2.6 TOPG, 3.8 PFPG. (21.9 PPG) 106 ORtg/101 DRtg 20.9 PER.
C - Rik Smits 76 games age 24, 22.2 mpg, 9.4 FGA/2.5 FTA. 4.7 RPG, 1.1 APG, 1.1 TOPG (10.9 PPG). 108 ORtg/111 DRtg 14.9 PER.

"Total" - 32.9 mpg (so Fanmail's team would lean on the bench a bit more than the Kings he's facing, 68.5% team minutes go to starters)
66.7 FGA/19.8 FTA - 82 PPG. (~119.7/game)
27.6 RPG/14.6 APG/9.5 TOPG
110 ORtg / 107 DRtg 17 avg PER.

I'll admit this is a "lazy" analysis and not really that great, but it seems that... (Conclusions I WILL draw)
1. Fanmail's team leans on his bench a bit more.
2. Fanmail's team plays a faster pace and are slightly more efficient. They draw roughly the same amount of fouls.
3. Fanmail's team is more iso-oriented than the passing-heavy Kings, but turn the ball over just as often (although this could be a result of slightly higher pace)
4. No question the Kings are a better defensive team; it's evident in losing the rebound war as well as a worse overall defensive efficiency.
5. This analysis proves very little, except if I had to bet on a team, I'd bet on Sacramento.
6. That said, Fanmail has a solid team.

I'd note to everyone that we have reviewed the game film of the 1981 NBA Finals and concluded without any question that Kevin McHale is hands down the worst pick in this draft.

I remember Paultz, he played for the Jazz for a while. He is best remembered in Utah for being on the recieving end of a sucker punch to the face by Hakeem in the 85 playoffs. If anyone has a link for the video to this, I would love to see it again.

No way would AC's team be WORSE than an average team. All of our teams are better than average. That said, we're looking to make title contenders, which is difficult.


I disagree; I'd give the edge Dumars over Bibby slightly, but I actually think that edge is negated by Peja/Christie somewhat over Jho/Blackman - basically, Blackman is below average, as is Peja, but Jhoward isn't as good as Christie. To be most fair to the Fanmail Kings, we'll call 1-2-3 a wash, even though I believe the Sacto Kings had a better 1-2-3.

Which leads to 4/5, and essentially a younger Webber wasn't as good as a 28 yr Webber (that year) and even if THAT is a wash, we're led to Vlade vs Smits, and Vlade, although older, was incredibly crafty and solid defensively, whereas Smits didn't really get better till later in his career.

All in all, I think no doubt Sacto has an edge defensively, but just how large that edge is depends on...
1. The difference between Jho at a younger age than now vs Christie
2. How much better Webber got in those 4 years at defense (only slightly, but still somewhat better)
3. Old Vlade vs Young Smits (again, edge Kings)


I think "medical bill" IS injury prone, but w/e. I think not enough love for the pic was due to SO MANY picks (and alot of good ones) that he got rushed over.
LJ def. injury prone, but lots of value here. I was considering him if I didn't get TB early this round, FWIW.
Granger I know you love and I just flatout don't agree.


I like the latter team. But it's tough to compare, bc in a vacuum it seems like the former team will massively destroy the other team on the boards, and the latter team massively destroy the other team in nailing shots... What it means is the first team is playing without a wing man and the second team is playing without a big man.

I like the picks this round, don't agree with the picks you praise OR the order in which you praised them. Here goes for me...

Terrell Brandon, Derek Harper, Mike Miller, Samuel Dalmebert, Mark Jackson, Toni Kukoc, Corey Maggette, Brandon Roy, Jason Richardson, Calvin Natt, Josh Howard.

I didn't like...
Dale Davis, Chris Kaman, Kevin Durant, Monta Ellis

OK, I don't think he'll outperform Howard in 2 years. I guess we'll just have to wait and see. Also, dont know why people say he's been thrust into the #1 option role; he's not. He's the 2nd and sometimes 3rd option - does anyone other than me watch Pacers games??

I think he's a very good coach.