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Old 06-02-2008, 01:00 AM   #9801
BobboFitos
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Dr. Zoidberg View Post
Don't forget that Barry excelled in Seattle when he got major playing time. With KJ and 'Nique I got two guys who can drop 30+ on any given night. Barry is exactly what I need in a SG. Deadly from behind the arc, but doesn't need the ball and is willing and able to give it up if his shot isn't there.
The one fear about Brent Barry is for whatever reason, he never played a ton of minutes. Career 26.6, only 1 season >36min (as a 30yr old in Seattle). Not sure WHY this is, but you can't play him for more than 30 mins or so. (As a 24yr old, he played 24mpg for the record) I do like him quite a bit tho.

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Originally Posted by tbach24 View Post
sammy >>> kaman especially for your team. no way some sketchy white dude fits in your locker room
haha, I agree, good observation.

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Originally Posted by flyingmoose View Post
I think Durant was a great value for mid-4th but I would have preferred seeing him on a team with an ironman like Malone who will play until he's 40 than on a team with a 5-year window. You're right that all of our guys will be old when Durant comes into his prime, but your center will be 36 and your small forward might have broken in half by then.

Like I said, great value, but I think his value could be even higher on a different squad.
I agree with this, KD is better on a team where everyone "grows together," on Tbach's team, Sabonis will be retired by the time KD is a productive player.


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Originally Posted by tbach24 View Post
This is veering too far into the post-draft discussion, so I'll make it brief:

Lifetime contracts unless we dump them. A trading/free agency period will be available between hypothetical seasons.

Just my .02
this makes sense, but would rather discuss this in the post-draft thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HighStakesPro View Post
Kaman is 26, has played five seasons in the NBA plus another three in college, and has probably reached his ceiling, Biedrins is 22, has played four seasons and gotten a lot less playing time, and made pretty big improvements the last two years, I think it's pretty reasonable to say that he can still improve. One reason for his lower playing time is because he fouled so much, but he has gotten better at staying out of foul trouble so in the next few years he could be a top 10 center in the league if he isn't already.
Kaman peaked this year. He will likely plateau and continue his ~17PER with above avg. defense for another 3 years. So, you get an above average starting center, but nothing spectacular. Biedrins is getting better and even at this age is basically even in value. I think he IS a top 10 center already.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
The whole "he can take over a game" is selectively memory from watching games(surprise surprise...watching a game and then evaluating isn't a great way to do things because we're selectively biased). You remember his great games in which it seemed like he couldn't miss, but you forget the other ones which are responsible for his low efficiency numbers.
I think this is a good post. And also, "stats are overblown" is a stupid comment. No, stats are good when used correctly. And there are some players who "win games" for you, but those same players have a tendency for "losing games" for you, too.
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Old 06-02-2008, 01:08 AM   #9802
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by battschr View Post
Do league rules require he drafts Jackie Christie with the next pick? Because they should.
lol, nice on battschr.

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Originally Posted by HighStakesPro View Post
So, Assani, how did the Warriors win 48 games, including many against top teams, despite having one of the least efficient and wost defensive teams?
This wasn't directed at me, but since I'm a Warriors fan, (I know you are too, so you're asking this sarcastically) and I watched a ton of games (not to mention went to a bunch of games the year before) - they have one of the best offenses. Their PD wasn't great, in fact I think they got a little lucky to win 48 (double checking Pythagorean, they were supposed to be 47-35, so i guess they didnt even run that cold) but they ARE one of the most efficient offenses. Baron, Monta, Biedrins - what a sick offensive squad. They didn't have the BEST offense (their fast pace exacerbated their offense and made it seem like their defense was even worse) but they obviously are a "good" team. Unfortunate for them there were 8 better Western teams.

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Originally Posted by NozeCandy View Post
Oh no what would we ever do without Bobbo's commentary
This is really funny.

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Originally Posted by kidcolin View Post
Man I ****ing hate moving.
me too, but i'm glad it's over.

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Originally Posted by NopairParker View Post
just woke up, will make my pick soon
You were skipped IMO

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Originally Posted by Chris Daddy Cool View Post
love monta.

however in your write up you said he was a solid defender. sorry dude, he's nowhere close to that yet. but he is quick and still young enough to learn. also has no range obv but he can work on that too.
Yeah, his defense sucks, alot of the problem is Baron/Monta is a small backcourt. They had Baron defend the 2, but whenever Monta gets switched he is weak, small, and as quick as he is on offense, he's not that quick defensively. He will learn I think tho, since he's so young and athletic.

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Originally Posted by tbach24 View Post
monta's not the worst pick, you're gonna be a matchup nightmare considering you have two guys that can attack the paint at will. but who will setup the big men? there's also no defense to be seen.
I agree with this, someone else (Xorbie?) said they can still spread the floor bc of great midrange game, and that's true, but you can still sag off them a little bit.


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Originally Posted by HighStakesPro View Post
I'm a big Warriors fan, and Ellis does nothing on defense but wave his arms. He's a good jump shooter and slasher on offense though.
+1

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Originally Posted by kidcolin View Post
whatever team eats up Durant's pussy frame for lunch?
lol, this is about "which team will match up with Tbach". And, well, we're not done drafting, so your claims of having the best team are dumbfounding. You are worse than Epi in terms of homerism.
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Old 06-02-2008, 01:10 AM   #9803
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by fanmail View Post
Pierce?
true greats are unaffected, though he probably launched more 3s than he needed to.
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Old 06-02-2008, 01:16 AM   #9804
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by tbach24 View Post
I'm gonna be gone all day to the cape (gawd I'm such a new englander) and not gonna be able to check on this thread

Just wanted to say that after the 2nd and 3rd round when there were some VERY questionable picks, that so far this round has been pretty spectacular. Probably the best value picks of any round so far. WTG guys! Pat on the back! !! !
I agree, very good pickings people. Not really any memorable blowups.

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Originally Posted by xorbie View Post
Look, fact is Monta Ellis shot over 50% from the floor on a team that otherwise shot poorly and has pedestrian 3pt %s. You tell me a team with Wade/Ellis will have trouble scoring and I say gtfo.
Huh? The warriors hardly shot poorly. They were a very good offensive team. Very good passing team. Clearly Wade/Ellis are not a bad combo offensively, but they are hardly elite either. (As a pairing)

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Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
NoPairParker, I think you're vastly overrating how good Wade/Ellis are at double teaming the post. At the college level, guard speed can indeed influence the opposing team's post play considerably. However, in the NBA the spacing and court awareness is usually so good that the guard's double teams are not a huge factor in post defense, but rather the defense of your actual post players is.
+1, good post AF.

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Originally Posted by EPiPeN11 View Post
To all the people who earlier in this thread laughed when I said Kobe could be considered better than Jordan once it's all said and done, it looks like Mark Jackson and JVG are both starting to agree (as well as others).
LOL.

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Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
ePiPen,

You've continually used ESPN analysts as the backbone of several of your arguments. You used Charles' Barkley's analysis heavily regarding McHale.

Yes these guys who played/coached the game have a unique perspective that we don't have. However, they're also very biased, and for the most part their analysis is no better than ours(in fact, in most cases I think its much worse). I don't see why you continue to use them then. Of course they're going to bring up the Kobe vs MJ thing...its called hyping up the Finals.
Again, AF with a good post.

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Originally Posted by kidcolin View Post
ah the classic epippen hypothetical parlays
Nice one here too. Not much to add, just my opinion is the same here.
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Old 06-02-2008, 01:20 AM   #9805
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Anacardo View Post
I'm curious to see what Sammy's going to for his vacant PF spot b/c right now Yao's really got his work cut out for him guarding the rim. That starting five is gonna be waving dudes into the lane like a bunch of traffic cops.
Yeah, Yao will need help here.

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Originally Posted by Dr. Zoidberg View Post
Bibby's been pretty meh the last three seasons.
Yeppo, his peak came quickly.

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Originally Posted by flyingmoose View Post
Seriously, who the **** is Calvin Natt? Did you just make up a name and then hack into B-Ref and plug in some good stats?
How do people not know who Calvin Natt was?? Good player, not a made up guy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack of Arcades View Post
I think Natt works ok as a SG when they're all on the foor at the same time, but given the fact that the all get some minutes off they'll probably each play at some point in the game.

Natt was one of the last efficient scorers left. He's kind of like the anti-Battier. He creates his own shot, runs really well (played some seasons with those Nuggets), and can rebound. Can't hit a 3. Defends okay, but with Battier there he's probably not guarding the best wing player for long stretches anyway.
Exactly. (read above)

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Originally Posted by Jack of Arcades View Post
Granger was a guy I hoped would fall but knew he wouldn't
What?? Why do people say this? He's not that good!!
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Old 06-02-2008, 01:22 AM   #9806
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

really don't get your hate for Granger dude.
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Old 06-02-2008, 01:34 AM   #9807
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
LOL, talk about a sleeper!!!
haha... (About natt bc no one knew who he was)

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Originally Posted by xorbie View Post
Josh Howard is a very very good pick this late in the draft.
I agree.

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Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
YEah Bibby's defense was a real killer for me when evaluating him. Its not just bad for this draft, its bad for the current NBA as well. With more starpower in this draft, its hard to have a poor defender on your team imo.
I agree.

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Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
I think you guys are really really underestimating how good Chris Webber was. Do you not realize that Webber took Bibby, Christie, Peja, an old Vlade, and a few undrafted players to within one OT of winning the title(seeing as how the Lakers swept the Nets, I'm pretty sure the Kings would've been considerable favorites there)?

Webber>Brand imo for sure.

I will admit that he should've taken Deron, but I think about 15 drafters should've taken Deron, and Deron was one of the steals of the draft, so its unfair to single him out there.

I think he was in a bit of a tough draft spot and had poor luck overall with few steals falling to his spots.
Hmm, I think Webber and Brand are very similar players. (In raw value) How they reach that value is different, though. Webber is underrated on this board though. Deron was great value in this draft for sure.

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Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
Oh and Brand has made the playoffs one year, whereas Webber has been a pretty big winner nearly everywhere hes been.
Yeah, this is a dumb statement. Horry has been a winner everywhere he's been - so what?

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Originally Posted by van_exel_fan View Post
I know, I'm just not digging arguments like "Bosh plays like a young Garnett, in fact, he may wind up better." or "D-Will had one awesome season and I don't see him getting worse therefore he is as good as Payton, Kidd in this format imo"...
I don't get statements like this in general. This leads to too much speculation. In my mind, KG >> Bosh, and I'm not going to dwell on it further.
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Old 06-02-2008, 01:40 AM   #9808
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Checking out 82games.com, his +/- numbers have been horrible for a supposed good player on a mediocre to bad team. That's at least one thing to give pause about Granger.
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Old 06-02-2008, 01:44 AM   #9809
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by kidcolin View Post
not Assani's finest hour, but I have faith. Assani Akbar!
Yeah, I think AF got owned hardcore in Brandgate. I still have faith though.

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Originally Posted by Jack of Arcades View Post
Brand was one win away from the WCF, and I'm pretty sure he had much less help than that Kings team.
People dont mention this, but yeah, although he hasn't been in the playoffs much (only once!) he did alot when there.

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Originally Posted by Dudd View Post
It sure as hell doesn't mean cherry picking fringe performances in short samples to generalize a player's overall production over a several year period.
Exactly, approximately = close, this was not close.

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Originally Posted by Jack of Arcades View Post
Most of the guys similar to Battier (AK47, Artest, quite a few more we can all think of) either can't hit a 3 or it took them a while to start doing it. I think Battier is one of the "safest" picks from this category.
Certainly safe, but doesnt mean good.

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Originally Posted by HighStakesPro View Post
I wonder if there are any all-time greats left for BigCat to pick.
LOL, I think one or two more around.

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Originally Posted by van_exel_fan View Post
This 24 year old thing is going to change as soon as the teams are complete and everyone realizes that ANY team with all 24 year olds would be awful...

IMO team GMs (us) should be able to pick a 3 year span that we get the players. Think Jordan's prime is when he is 29-31? That is your Jordan. Hakeem Olajuwon was best in the Rockets' championship years, not his 24 year old year. You should be able to get THE BEST Olajuwon, not an inexperienced young center...Plus, if you had Jordan in his prime, you could opt to make a couple of your role players younger to give your squad more youth. The idea of a team with all players the same age is implausible and idiotic...
But the draft was getting them at 24. Any other speculation is meaningless.
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Old 06-02-2008, 01:47 AM   #9810
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by BobboFitos View Post
Kevin Durant

I'm sure Tbach has written miles of posts about how great: A. His team is B. His pick was C. All his needs are met etc etc.

I'll be frank though: Durant COULD be great, but this year he was very average. You get him THIS year, and he is going to be a huge hole playing major minutes. I also feel you could've grabbed him in a later round, but I could be proven wrong. Funny writeup though.
Just to be clear on this, you get him at his current age, which is now. So you get him having had the rookie year experience already.

Personally, taking a look at Lebron's first and second years and seeing the similarity in how Durant improved over his first year, I think its a great pick. Probably my steal of the draft so far. I'd go:

1. Durant
2. Moncrief
3. Deron Williams
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Old 06-02-2008, 01:50 AM   #9811
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by BobboFitos View Post
I'm surprised you like JRich then decide BB is too early. I think they're very compatible players, just one is white, one is black.
BB always struck me as a great role player, but never more. JR has a similar skill set, but I think he has more capability to handle 'the load', for whatever reason. In terms of who is the better role player to fill a 3rd/4th option, I agree they're pretty comparable (not compatible right?).

JR has been a lot more durable (evidenced as being able to play big minutes) and still produce "fairly efficiently" as i said earlier.

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Originally Posted by BobboFitos View Post
I am surprised you rated Kaman higher than Brown...
i think i wrote earlier ITT that my "rating" of Kaman was based solely on his last year (read: year without Brand). As someone who watched a ton of his games on FSNw this year, I think you underrate his jumpshot. I also think that PJ Brown's 'type' is more common in this draft than Kaman's 'type', but that's a longer story.
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Old 06-02-2008, 02:12 AM   #9812
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Assani,

Can I draft Billy Paultz?
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Old 06-02-2008, 02:15 AM   #9813
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

you'll have to trade up over me first
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Old 06-02-2008, 02:24 AM   #9814
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

We should do this draft every year and lol at how everyone changes positions from year to year.
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Old 06-02-2008, 02:24 AM   #9815
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Round 4, Wildcard Pick

Billy "The Whopper" Paultz

El mito improbable





The Whopper

Listed at only 6'11", anyone who ever saw this monster play knows that he was at least 7'1". He towered over Robert Parish in a dominating tour de force in the 1981 NBA Finals. A monster during his career, he had a PER above 15 for 9 years, peaking over 20 in his prime. A 15 and 10 guy for much of his career, he was a monster on defense as well, and able to pass well out of the high post. A 3-time ABA all star, he helped lead the Houston Rockets to the NBA finals, pushing the Celtics to 6-games alongside Moses Malone.
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Old 06-02-2008, 02:28 AM   #9816
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I'm fairly certain he could clean and jerk 400 lbs
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Old 06-02-2008, 02:28 AM   #9817
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I'm fairly certain he could clean and jerk 400 lbs
But could he backlift 6,000?
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Old 06-02-2008, 02:30 AM   #9818
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

undocumented but he most likely did
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Old 06-02-2008, 02:31 AM   #9819
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

It's at least 90% probable in my mind, that even if he never tried, he had a 83% chance of doing it.
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Old 06-02-2008, 02:32 AM   #9820
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I'm a little disappointed that Bobbo is now using mult-quote.

Also, I like Granger over Howard by a decent amount because Granger, in my opinion, will have a much better career shooting from deep, which I feel is extremely important for a #2 option, especially if your #1 does not.

Also, I'm sold that DG is the man when it comes to work ethic and being the face of his franchise... and JHow, well that's all been documented.

Plus DG is bigger and longer, and I just love hit shooting form, my second favorite in the NBA today.
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Old 06-02-2008, 02:34 AM   #9821
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Whopper was an ardent surfer! And he played with Rick Barry. Brent Barry is also an ardent surfer. Paternity inquiry is needed. Rick was a crappy chucker, Paultz is the real deal. He's gotta be Brent Mother****ing Barry's real dad. It'd also explain while Rick's other kids ****ing suck.
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Old 06-02-2008, 02:35 AM   #9822
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Anyone else care to give an assesment of the first starting 5 vs current NBA? Or would BigCat/Chips just pick already & get the heat off me.
I will do an assessment, but am interested in reading others first.

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Originally Posted by capone0 View Post
We are just in the starting lineup though. I love those Kings but his team has a better starting lineup. The Bench of the Kings with sick nasty though in the hey dey and why they were so good. Let's see the bench but the starting lineup is no doubt better.
Right, tough to make any sort of assessment without a bench, but you know what? We were making assessments after seeing a TWO MAN team, so by all means, we'll do it for 5.

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Originally Posted by KLJ View Post
it sucks to not check this for almost 2 days and only have a few picks, but its expected because of it being the weekend. natt has been my BPA for a long time (i think since bobbo picked TB).

picking deron williams in the first 50 picks after one year doesn't make sense to me, but whatever.

if anyone drafts a 5-man team that's worse than the top 5 in the current nba, it's a fail imo.
Natt was high up on my BPA list too; picking Deron top 50 can't be too wrong; agree that if you're not within striking distance of a random NBA year (top 5 qualifies) you probably drafted poorly.


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Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
I think that the first starting 5 would be among the best, if not the best in the NBA. The easiest way to do these comparisons is to take the star player and look at a good team he used to be on:


Bibby
Christie
Peja
Webber
Vlade

That team was for all intents are purposes a championship calibre squad.

Dumars
Blackman
Howard
Webber
Smits


That seems just as good if not better imo.
I'll break it down statistically. Also, we're using the Kings as the "closest team comparison"... But I'm not sure they're the best benchmarks. However, if we can deem fanmail's team is on par (or better) than that Kings team, it certainly qualifies as a top 5 contender, and therefore is not a fail. (Will do it below)

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Originally Posted by ClarkNasty View Post
You are dramatically underrating Rolando and Smits imo, and giving Bibby too much credit. Like, somehow Christie's defense relative to Rolando is a big deal, but you just ignore Peja's D vs. Josh Howard? I'm the first to acknowledge the awesomeness that was Peja at any time other than the last minute of a game, but this is like such a perfect team for Howard. Blackman and Josh > Peja and Christie imo. I'm pretty sure we agree that Dumars > Bibby. I think you underestimate Smits personally.

Worst case the teams are very similar and to me I'd rather have the hypothetical team.
Agree, but will crunch numbers anyway.

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Originally Posted by Dudd View Post
The Kings that year were good defensively but not elite, only 6th in defensive efficiency. So, unless you think that AC's team would be much worse on defense than an average NBA team, I don't see how it can be much worse than that Kings team.
Agree here. So:
2001-2002 Sacramento Kings
PG - Mike Bibby, 80 games age 23, 33.2 mpg, 12.3 FGA/2.4 FTA. 2.8 RPG, 5.0 APG, 1.7 TOPG (13.7 PPG). 107 ORtg/105 DRtg, 14.9 PER.
SG - Doug Christie, 81games age 31, 34.5 mpg, 9.1 FGA/3.0 FTA. 4.6 RPG, 4.2 APG, 2.0 TOPG (12 PPG). 112 ORtg/101 DRtg 15.2 PER
SF - Peja Stojakovic, 71games age 24, 37.3 mpg, 15.9 FGA/4.5 FTA. 5.3 RPG, 2.5 APG, 2.0 TOPG (21.2 PPG) 115 ORtg/104 DRtg 19.3 PER
PF - Chris Webber, 54games age 28. 38.4 mpg, 19.9 FGA/6.3 FTA. 10.1 RPG, 4.8 APG, 2.9 TOPG, 3.2 PFPG. (24.5 PPG) 109 ORtg/98 DRtg 24.4 PER.
C - Vlade Divac, 81 games age 32. 29.9 mpg, 9.3 FGA/4.3 FTA. 8.3 RPG, 2.9 APG, 2.4 TOPG, 3.0 PFPG (12 PPG) 105 ORtg/97 DRtg 17.7 PER.

"Total" - 34.6 MPG (72% of the game starting 5 played)
66.5 FGA/20.5 FTA 83.4 PPG. (~115.8/game)
31.3 RPG/19.8 APG/10 TOPG
109.6 ORtg / 101 DRtg / 18.3 avg PER




2007-2008 Fanmail Kings
PG - Joe Dumars, 82 games age 24, 33.3 mpg, 11.7 FGA/3.8 FTA. 2.4 RPG, 4.7 APG, 2.1 TOPG, 1.9 PFPG (14.2 PPG) 109 ORtg/108 DRtg 13.7 PER.
SG - Rolando Blackman, 81 games age 24, 37.3 mpg, 16.3 FGA/5.7 FTA. 4.6 RPG, 3.6 APG, 2.1 TOPG (22.4 PPG) 119 ORtg/112 DRtg 19.8 PER.
SF - Josh Howard, 76 games age 24, 32.2 mpg, 10.4 FGA/3.1 FTA. 6.4 RPG, 1.4 APG, 1.6 TOPG (12.6 PPG) 108 ORtg/103 DRtg 15.8 PER
PF - Chris Webber, 71games age 24. 39.6 mpg, 18.9 FGA/4.7 FTA. 9.5 RPG, 3.8 APG, 2.6 TOPG, 3.8 PFPG. (21.9 PPG) 106 ORtg/101 DRtg 20.9 PER.
C - Rik Smits 76 games age 24, 22.2 mpg, 9.4 FGA/2.5 FTA. 4.7 RPG, 1.1 APG, 1.1 TOPG (10.9 PPG). 108 ORtg/111 DRtg 14.9 PER.

"Total" - 32.9 mpg (so Fanmail's team would lean on the bench a bit more than the Kings he's facing, 68.5% team minutes go to starters)
66.7 FGA/19.8 FTA - 82 PPG. (~119.7/game)
27.6 RPG/14.6 APG/9.5 TOPG
110 ORtg / 107 DRtg 17 avg PER.

I'll admit this is a "lazy" analysis and not really that great, but it seems that... (Conclusions I WILL draw)
1. Fanmail's team leans on his bench a bit more.
2. Fanmail's team plays a faster pace and are slightly more efficient. They draw roughly the same amount of fouls.
3. Fanmail's team is more iso-oriented than the passing-heavy Kings, but turn the ball over just as often (although this could be a result of slightly higher pace)
4. No question the Kings are a better defensive team; it's evident in losing the rebound war as well as a worse overall defensive efficiency.
5. This analysis proves very little, except if I had to bet on a team, I'd bet on Sacramento.
6. That said, Fanmail has a solid team.
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Old 06-02-2008, 02:39 AM   #9823
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I'd note to everyone that we have reviewed the game film of the 1981 NBA Finals and concluded without any question that Kevin McHale is hands down the worst pick in this draft.
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Old 06-02-2008, 02:46 AM   #9824
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by ClarkNasty View Post
Round 4, Wildcard Pick

Billy "The Whopper" Paultz

El mito improbable





The Whopper

Listed at only 6'11", anyone who ever saw this monster play knows that he was at least 7'1". He towered over Robert Parish in a dominating tour de force in the 1981 NBA Finals. A monster during his career, he had a PER above 15 for 9 years, peaking over 20 in his prime. A 15 and 10 guy for much of his career, he was a monster on defense as well, and able to pass well out of the high post. A 3-time ABA all star, he helped lead the Houston Rockets to the NBA finals, pushing the Celtics to 6-games alongside Moses Malone.

I remember Paultz, he played for the Jazz for a while. He is best remembered in Utah for being on the recieving end of a sucker punch to the face by Hakeem in the 85 playoffs. If anyone has a link for the video to this, I would love to see it again.
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Old 06-02-2008, 02:47 AM   #9825
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
I'm not following this logic at all.

The Kings were 6/29, which is very very good.

AC's team could most definitely be worse than the Kings but not much worse than an average NBA team. If you define average as 15th and "much worse" than average as say 20th, then they could be 7th-19th, no?
No way would AC's team be WORSE than an average team. All of our teams are better than average. That said, we're looking to make title contenders, which is difficult.


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Originally Posted by ClarkNasty View Post
Dumars >>>> Bibby defensively
JHo/Blackman = Peja/Christie (keeping the wing players together Christie best of the bunch but Peja the worst)
Vlade > Smits Vlade was old and slow by then, not bad but not that much better.

I'm just not seeing zomg way better defensively. I'm not seeing better defensively period tbh.
I disagree; I'd give the edge Dumars over Bibby slightly, but I actually think that edge is negated by Peja/Christie somewhat over Jho/Blackman - basically, Blackman is below average, as is Peja, but Jhoward isn't as good as Christie. To be most fair to the Fanmail Kings, we'll call 1-2-3 a wash, even though I believe the Sacto Kings had a better 1-2-3.

Which leads to 4/5, and essentially a younger Webber wasn't as good as a 28 yr Webber (that year) and even if THAT is a wash, we're led to Vlade vs Smits, and Vlade, although older, was incredibly crafty and solid defensively, whereas Smits didn't really get better till later in his career.

All in all, I think no doubt Sacto has an edge defensively, but just how large that edge is depends on...
1. The difference between Jho at a younger age than now vs Christie
2. How much better Webber got in those 4 years at defense (only slightly, but still somewhat better)
3. Old Vlade vs Young Smits (again, edge Kings)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Seadood228 View Post
Bummed at the small amount of picks since I was last on. A few comments:

Bill Cartwright - I'm a little surprised that there wasn't more love for this pick. I think his career trend was very similar to McDyess and kind of like Ziggy's, starting out hot, getting injured, and then going on to have a solid career. To me, that's the definition of someone who isn't injury prone.

Larry Johnson - See above for reasons I don't like him in this format. His injuries were more chronic.. Still, you can't knock the pick that much given how low he was taken.

Danny Granger - One of my new favorite squads with DG. It's just a perfect fit, and I think DG was a steal where he went. Of all the young guys, I think he's got the least amount of question marks besides Chris Paul..
I think "medical bill" IS injury prone, but w/e. I think not enough love for the pic was due to SO MANY picks (and alot of good ones) that he got rushed over.
LJ def. injury prone, but lots of value here. I was considering him if I didn't get TB early this round, FWIW.
Granger I know you love and I just flatout don't agree.


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Originally Posted by tbach24 View Post
So people would rather talk about ranking teams than actually talk about the teams as currently composed? I'll spur up another debate then:

Iverson/Wallace/Thorpe/Granger vs. Deke/Gilbert/Scrhempf/Gay

Which do you like better?
I like the latter team. But it's tough to compare, bc in a vacuum it seems like the former team will massively destroy the other team on the boards, and the latter team massively destroy the other team in nailing shots... What it means is the first team is playing without a wing man and the second team is playing without a big man.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbach24 View Post
It's nearly the end of the 4th round!

Which picks do you like best this round?
1. Mike Miller/Allan Houston- he's such an amazing shooter and his defensive deficiencies are made up for by the fact that KG/Nance and Laimbeer/Ewing are on this team (hey Assani!)
2. Larry Johnson- guys are underrating him, but he had a 10 year career where he stayed relatively healthy (only missed significant time in one season) and ranged anywhere from alright to very good. Plus this is a good fit for him. Talented team and he'll contribute to their already good offense plus play solid D (boy this team is great on D).
3. Danny Granger- I love Granger. He'll be at least one guy to help Iverson out on the offensive end on this team.
4. Calvin Natt- Still haven't heard of him, but I like the fact that this team is looking to run and gun with a smaller lineup.
5. Emeka Okafor- Gives LBJ a solid option to pass to in the post in addition while solidifying this front court.
I like the picks this round, don't agree with the picks you praise OR the order in which you praised them. Here goes for me...

Terrell Brandon, Derek Harper, Mike Miller, Samuel Dalmebert, Mark Jackson, Toni Kukoc, Corey Maggette, Brandon Roy, Jason Richardson, Calvin Natt, Josh Howard.

I didn't like...
Dale Davis, Chris Kaman, Kevin Durant, Monta Ellis

Quote:
Originally Posted by fanmail View Post
Well, I disagree. Granger at 24 > Howard at 24, and I assume will continue to improve making him better than current Howard if he's not already better which I think he might be. Howard can score, but I also needed an efficient shooter in addition to just points and Granger is that and more. Yes, he played 80/82 thanks for that ldo.
OK, I don't think he'll outperform Howard in 2 years. I guess we'll just have to wait and see. Also, dont know why people say he's been thrust into the #1 option role; he's not. He's the 2nd and sometimes 3rd option - does anyone other than me watch Pacers games??

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Originally Posted by kidcolin View Post
for some reason I tend to think everyone playing O'Brien tends to get overrated. Maybe he's just a brilliant coach.
I think he's a very good coach.
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