Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Sporting Events Discussion centered around sporting events.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-01-2008, 02:05 PM   #9651
van_exel_fan
grinder
 
van_exel_fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: witness protection
Posts: 539
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
Western Conference Finals (4-3): Los Angeles Lakers over Sacramento Kings

game 7 boxscore: http://www.basketball-reference.com/...206020SAC.html
Don't know why I thought semis...
van_exel_fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2008, 02:08 PM   #9652
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by van_exel_fan View Post
Don't know why I thought semis...
They did play them in the semis the year before(and the 1st round the year before that), so maybe thats what you were thinking of.
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2008, 02:09 PM   #9653
van_exel_fan
grinder
 
van_exel_fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: witness protection
Posts: 539
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
They did play them in the semis the year before(and the 1st round the year before that), so maybe thats what you were thinking of.
I think youre right...
van_exel_fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2008, 02:13 PM   #9654
van_exel_fan
grinder
 
van_exel_fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: witness protection
Posts: 539
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Also, on Brand vs. Webber...

Brand is a very skilled, incredibly consistent player. He will always produce, but he will never be great. He just doesn't have that higher gear that great players do. He is just a very good player and that's it.

Webber is grossly more talented than Brand but a much worse worker (Webber is obv on the "All-High Team"...However, Webber has been excellent at times. If Brand were that good one would think he could lead a team to the playoffs once in a while...
van_exel_fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2008, 02:28 PM   #9655
Jack of Arcades
Jumbo Jack
 
Jack of Arcades's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: The Bastion
Posts: 23,569
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
I don't know what else you want me to do...I went to their stats page and took the highest number from each category, no questions asked. I posted that here. How is that "making **** up"?
Ron Artest scored 24.6 ppg with a .608 TS% in 04-05. He's clearly a very efficient scorer! Oh wait, he did that in 7 games.

First of all, you blatantly made up numbers in their prime years. And when you clarified Webber's prime, not only was it only 3 years, it was worse than you claimed and he missed significant time in his best year.

Finally, comparing their career highs was extremely dishonest when you use pre-24 year old stats and short seasons.
Jack of Arcades is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2008, 02:34 PM   #9656
kidcolin
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
kidcolin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: thank god for the hatchery
Posts: 108,763
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

not Assani's finest hour, but I have faith. Assani Akbar!
kidcolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2008, 02:36 PM   #9657
kidcolin
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
kidcolin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: thank god for the hatchery
Posts: 108,763
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I'm just gonna go ahead here and say Webber is better than Brand, ok? greattttt
kidcolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2008, 02:37 PM   #9658
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack of Arcades View Post
Ron Artest scored 24.6 ppg with a .608 TS% in 04-05. He's clearly a very efficient scorer! Oh wait, he did that in 7 games.

First of all, you blatantly made up numbers in their prime years. And when you clarified Webber's prime, not only was it only 3 years, it was worse than you claimed and he missed significant time in his best year.

Finally, comparing their career highs was extremely dishonest when you use pre-24 year old stats and short seasons.
I guess the word approximately means nothing.
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2008, 02:38 PM   #9659
Jack of Arcades
Jumbo Jack
 
Jack of Arcades's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: The Bastion
Posts: 23,569
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by van_exel_fan View Post
Also, on Brand vs. Webber...

Brand is a very skilled, incredibly consistent player. He will always produce, but he will never be great. He just doesn't have that higher gear that great players do. He is just a very good player and that's it.

Webber is grossly more talented than Brand but a much worse worker (Webber is obv on the "All-High Team"...However, Webber has been excellent at times. If Brand were that good one would think he could lead a team to the playoffs once in a while...
Brand was one win away from the WCF, and I'm pretty sure he had much less help than that Kings team.
Jack of Arcades is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2008, 02:40 PM   #9660
Dudd
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Dudd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: pm karak w/ ffb questions
Posts: 54,252
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
I guess the word approximately means nothing.
It sure as hell doesn't mean cherry picking fringe performances in short samples to generalize a player's overall production over a several year period.
Dudd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2008, 02:44 PM   #9661
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dudd View Post
It sure as hell doesn't mean cherry picking fringe performances in short samples to generalize a player's overall production over a several year period.
I didn't cherry pick. I took each player's career highs. How is that cherry picking? Yes I realize some of those highs were on small sample sizes....still isn't cherry picking.
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2008, 02:45 PM   #9662
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack of Arcades View Post
Brand was one win away from the WCF, and I'm pretty sure he had much less help than that Kings team.
Sam Cassell, Chris Kaman, and Corey Maggette have all been drafted already. That wasnt a bad team at all.
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2008, 02:47 PM   #9663
Jack of Arcades
Jumbo Jack
 
Jack of Arcades's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: The Bastion
Posts: 23,569
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
Sam Cassell, Chris Kaman, and Corey Maggette have all been drafted already. That wasnt a bad team at all.
They didn't have anyone near as good as Peja.
Jack of Arcades is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2008, 02:50 PM   #9664
mjw0586
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
mjw0586's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 37,375
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
At age 24 he hadn't hit his prime yet(probably due to injuries). Do it for just 26-28.
Chris Webber never hit his true potential because of his injuries. He was a much more explosive player pre-injury who finished much better around the rim than he did later in his career. Even then, he was still a great defender and passer. He really could've changed the way big men play the game before guys like Howard, Amare, etc did. So, it's kind of hard to argue that he was better from 26-28.
mjw0586 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2008, 02:52 PM   #9665
EPiPeN11
banned
 
EPiPeN11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: akon is the goat
Posts: 18,605
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
Sam Cassell, Chris Kaman, and Corey Maggette have all been drafted already. That wasnt a bad team at all.
Except Cassell wasn't in his prime and Kaman wasn't as good as he was this year.
EPiPeN11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2008, 02:53 PM   #9666
ClarkNasty
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
ClarkNasty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: 10x the man Clarkmeister is
Posts: 35,385
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
I think you guys are really really underestimating how good Chris Webber was. Do you not realize that Webber took Bibby, Christie, Peja, an old Vlade, and a few undrafted players to within one OT of winning the title(seeing as how the Lakers swept the Nets, I'm pretty sure the Kings would've been considerable favorites there)?

Webber>Brand imo for sure.

I will admit that he should've taken Deron, but I think about 15 drafters should've taken Deron, and Deron was one of the steals of the draft, so its unfair to single him out there.

I think he was in a bit of a tough draft spot and had poor luck overall with few steals falling to his spots.
I like Webber as a real life player more than Brand. However the "zomg he carried these scrubs" post is nuts. That team was freaking stacked and maybe the best team of the modern era to not win an NBA title. Peja was insanely good then, Christie was the best wing defender in the league and was still good on offense, Bibby was an absolute stud at the time. They were deep, versatile and happened to run into two top-10 all time players near their peaks and still should've won.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MEbenhoe View Post
I'm supposed to be impressed that Webber took a team of 5 players already drafted in this draft to a Western Conference Finals? Seriously that was a pretty sweet team there. Webber was def very good, but not because of that.
This.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
Sam Cassell, Chris Kaman, and Corey Maggette have all been drafted already. That wasnt a bad team at all.

C'mon. Where guys are drafted is somewhat irrelevant in this discussion. Cassell was way past his prime, Kaman sucked, Maggette was in the doghouse for his refusal to play adequate D and team ball. I agree that it "wasn't a bad team at all", but it was light years away from the supporting cast Webber had.

Again, I think Webber > Brand, but you're really going about it the wrong way imo.
ClarkNasty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2008, 02:54 PM   #9667
van_exel_fan
grinder
 
van_exel_fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: witness protection
Posts: 539
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack of Arcades View Post
Brand was one win away from the WCF, and I'm pretty sure he had much less help than that Kings team.
Brand has only been to the playoffs once in 9 seasons...
van_exel_fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2008, 02:57 PM   #9668
Dudd
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Dudd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: pm karak w/ ffb questions
Posts: 54,252
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
I didn't cherry pick. I took each player's career highs. How is that cherry picking? Yes I realize some of those highs were on small sample sizes....still isn't cherry picking.
You approximated their numbers in their prime. Obviously picking career highs from various years will always overestimate an average year for a player, especially when you're not just listing their best year, but a composite of varying numbers from different years. But you knew that, and were just trolling, right?
Dudd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2008, 02:57 PM   #9669
fanmail
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
fanmail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Crown Town
Posts: 32,416
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Yeah, but the Clippers are like the worst franchise ever.
fanmail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2008, 02:57 PM   #9670
MEb
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
MEb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 24,705
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by van_exel_fan View Post
Brand has only been to the playoffs once in 9 seasons...
You can't be a one man show in the NBA. Garnett missed the playoffs 3 seasons in a row in his prime.
MEb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2008, 03:00 PM   #9671
kidcolin
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
kidcolin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: thank god for the hatchery
Posts: 108,763
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

man there is going to be some slim ****ing picking in rounds 8 and 9.
kidcolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2008, 03:02 PM   #9672
van_exel_fan
grinder
 
van_exel_fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: witness protection
Posts: 539
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by MEbenhoe View Post
You can't be a one man show in the NBA. Garnett missed the playoffs 3 seasons in a row in his prime.
Garnett is overrated...

Also, see LeBron James...
van_exel_fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2008, 03:03 PM   #9673
kidcolin
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
kidcolin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: thank god for the hatchery
Posts: 108,763
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

lol
kidcolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2008, 03:04 PM   #9674
fanmail
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
fanmail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Crown Town
Posts: 32,416
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

nice swinging neck breaker, and nice level too.
fanmail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2008, 03:05 PM   #9675
Jack of Arcades
Jumbo Jack
 
Jack of Arcades's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: The Bastion
Posts: 23,569
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
I didn't cherry pick. I took each player's career highs. How is that cherry picking? Yes I realize some of those highs were on small sample sizes....still isn't cherry picking.
It's either ******ed, lazy, or *extremely* dishonest when you provide no context about that sort of thing.

If you're comparing them, and their primes, at least post the real numbers and at least use the numbers relevant to the draft.


Brand's actual numbers from age 24-27: 21.3/9.8/2.8/2.4/0.9 and 57% TS
Webber from 26-28: 25.4 Points/ 10.6 REB/ 4.5 AST/ 1.6 BLK / and a .527% TS.

That's a pretty big difference in TS. Webber attempted about 5 more FG per game than Brand did.

The biggest difference? Those are Webber's *only* good post 24 years. In fact, since turning 24 he's put up only 4 years of better than .500 TS% and one of them was of below average efficiency.
Jack of Arcades is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:07 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive