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Old 06-01-2008, 01:26 PM   #9626
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Fair enough, ~ 15 spots not 15 teams. I think he was great value at 49 too.
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Old 06-01-2008, 01:28 PM   #9627
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I like how you just made up stats here, well done Assani. Why am I not surprised that you did this again?
huh?
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Old 06-01-2008, 01:32 PM   #9628
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
huh?
Don't act stupid, you constantly make up or cherry pick stats and state them as something they are not in order to make your point. The stats you listed for Webber's and Brand's prime are completely made up.
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Old 06-01-2008, 01:32 PM   #9629
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I'M NOT ARGUING MCHALE ANYMORE.
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Old 06-01-2008, 01:35 PM   #9630
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Here are their career season highs MEB:

Webber on left/Brand on right

27.1 points/22.7 points
58.1% TS/58.6% TS
13.0 rebounds/11.6 rebounds
16.7 rebound %/17.3 rebound %
5.4 assists/3.3 assists
27.0 assist %/16.0 assist %
2.2 blocks/2.5 blocks
4.1 block %/4.9 block%
1.8 steals/1.1 steals
2.5 steal %/1.5 steal %
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Old 06-01-2008, 01:36 PM   #9631
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by MEbenhoe View Post
Don't act stupid, you constantly make up or cherry pick stats and state them as something they are not in order to make your point. The stats you listed for Webber's and Brand's prime are completely made up.
No they are not. Please go list their appox. prime stats then. Please, I beg you to. After you're done doing that, we'll put your stats next to mine and see how badly I "made them up."
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Old 06-01-2008, 01:37 PM   #9632
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
Webber's approx prime numbers: 25/10.5/4.5/1.7/1.5 on 54% TS

Brand's appox prime numbers: 19/9.0/2.5/2.0/0.9 on 56% TS
From Webber's 24-29 years his TS% was .515. He scored 23.7 ppg on 20.6 shots. Now the league couldn't score well then, but it's still below average.
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Old 06-01-2008, 01:37 PM   #9633
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Oh and Brand has made the playoffs one year, whereas Webber has been a pretty big winner nearly everywhere hes been.
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Old 06-01-2008, 01:39 PM   #9634
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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From Webber's 24-29 years his TS% was .515. He scored 23.7 ppg on 20.6 shots. Now the league couldn't score well then, but it's still below average.
At age 24 he hadn't hit his prime yet(probably due to injuries). Do it for just 26-28.
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Old 06-01-2008, 01:40 PM   #9635
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
Here are their career season highs MEB:

Webber on left/Brand on right

27.1 points/22.7 points
58.1% TS/58.6% TS
13.0 rebounds/11.6 rebounds
16.7 rebound %/17.3 rebound %
5.4 assists/3.3 assists
27.0 assist %/16.0 assist %
2.2 blocks/2.5 blocks
4.1 block %/4.9 block%
1.8 steals/1.1 steals
2.5 steal %/1.5 steal %
Why are you using his age 22 numbers? Chris Webber's highest TS% in this league was .540, and he only played 54 games then.
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Old 06-01-2008, 01:41 PM   #9636
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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At age 24 he hadn't hit his prime yet(probably due to injuries). Do it for just 26-28.
.527.
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Old 06-01-2008, 01:45 PM   #9637
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Brand is better offensively, more efficient, better rebounder, they're both great on defense, and webber is a better passer. It's close, but Brand > Webber.
Brand is not a better rebounder. As has been pointed out, on offense Webber was often put 10-15ft from the basket. This doesn't allow him to go after offensive rebound as often. However, if you just look at their defensive rebounding where they both are unaffected by their team's system, then Webber is CLEARLY the better rebounder.

Brand is more efficient because he scores less bulk. He is not better offensively though, as Webber scores in more bulk and dishes out a bunch of assists.

Basically Brand is more efficent and gets more blocks. Webber has more bulk scoring, is a better passer, and gets more steals. I'd easily take Webber here.
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Old 06-01-2008, 01:48 PM   #9638
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Jack of Arcades View Post
Why are you using his age 22 numbers? Chris Webber's highest TS% in this league was .540, and he only played 54 games then.
I'm not, I was using their career best numbers from any year. Obviously in this league, we have no clue how they'd play after 24.
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Old 06-01-2008, 01:49 PM   #9639
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
Here are their career season highs MEB:


58.1% TS Age 22 season
13.0 rebounds Strike year, .485 TS% too! Next highest is 11.1
16.7 rebound % Same as above, next highest (in the league) is 15.0 at 34.
5.4 assists/ Highest of his eligible years by .6 assists
27.0 assist % You're using a partial year, highest is actually 24.6
2.2 blocks Not eligible year. Next highest was strike year.
4.1 block % Not eligible, highest eligible is 3.5%
1.8 steals Not eligible, but his best is 1.6
FYP
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Old 06-01-2008, 01:51 PM   #9640
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I'm not, I was using their career best numbers from any year. Obviously in this league, we have no clue how they'd play after 24.
lol in his age 22 season where you got his ts% he played 15 games.

Quit making **** up.
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Old 06-01-2008, 01:52 PM   #9641
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

The numbers you posted for Brand:

Brand's appox prime numbers: 19/9.0/2.5/2.0/0.9 on 56% TS

Brand's actual numbers from age 24-27: 21.3/9.8/2.8/2.4/0.9 and 57% TS

Also, what's best is there is no legitimate set of stats you could've used to come up with the Brand numbers.
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Old 06-01-2008, 01:53 PM   #9642
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

wtf is "not eligible"? I looked at both player's stats and posted the highest ones in each category. I never said they were eligible for league leader stats or anything.
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Old 06-01-2008, 01:57 PM   #9643
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

oops
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Old 06-01-2008, 01:58 PM   #9644
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by MEbenhoe View Post
The numbers you posted for Brand:

Brand's appox prime numbers: 19/9.0/2.5/2.0/0.9 on 56% TS

Brand's actual numbers from age 24-27: 21.3/9.8/2.8/2.4/0.9 and 57% TS

Also, what's best is there is no legitimate set of stats you could've used to come up with the Brand numbers.
You guys seem to be confusing this league's rules with this debate. In our league, we get every player at age 24. In this debate over a player's prime years I'm including every year of his prime years.

In my opinion, Brand is one of those rare player who pretty much hit his prime his rookie year...yes I realize thats rare, but look at his stats that year(and the following year). Maybe you could argue it took him a year or two...but regardless I'm not just looking at 24 onwards here.

If you want to just focus on 24 onwards, then yes I'd agree with you.
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Old 06-01-2008, 01:58 PM   #9645
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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No, Deron wen #49...I'm saying I would've taken him about 15 spots earlier. I like him over everyone drafted #37 or later except Pierce, Moncrief, and Kemp. And I probably like him over a few of the higher first round guys too. 15 was just an estimation I made without even looking at the draft board....basically I just see him as a steal. I could easily see him considered in the Payton/Kidd class when his career is done and look where they went.
LeBron may be considered G.O.A.T. when it is all said and done, he should be picked first IMO...
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Old 06-01-2008, 02:00 PM   #9646
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Conference semis imo...
Western Conference Finals (4-3): Los Angeles Lakers over Sacramento Kings

game 7 boxscore: http://www.basketball-reference.com/...206020SAC.html
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Old 06-01-2008, 02:01 PM   #9647
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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LeBron may be considered G.O.A.T. when it is all said and done, he should be picked first IMO...
I think there was definitely a case for Lebron at #1 through #3, although I would've gone with MJ #1.
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Old 06-01-2008, 02:03 PM   #9648
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Jack of Arcades View Post

Quit making **** up.
I don't know what else you want me to do...I went to their stats page and took the highest number from each category, no questions asked. I posted that here. How is that "making **** up"?
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Old 06-01-2008, 02:04 PM   #9649
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I think there was definitely a case for Lebron at #1 through #3, although I would've gone with MJ #1.
I know, I'm just not digging arguments like "Bosh plays like a young Garnett, in fact, he may wind up better." or "D-Will had one awesome season and I don't see him getting worse therefore he is as good as Payton, Kidd in this format imo"...
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Old 06-01-2008, 02:04 PM   #9650
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Hey Assani, thanks for defending Webber.

As Assani's saying Webber spent a lot less time parked down low than Brand, and still pulled down 10 rebounds a game. His career number (remembering his career is over now so his decline is included where Brands isnt) is .4 lower than Brands so I dont know where Brand is a better rebounder is coming from.

Also when Webber took that team deep in the playoffs, Vlade was way past his prime and Bibby was still an awful defender (I dont like the Bibby pick because of this, the guy is seriously terrible on D). Granted Peja was probably at his best, but hey Im not trying to claim the guys a 1 man team.

xorbie,

Yeah I know I think lack of three point shooting and elite post D is what Im missing and it was just the way the draft has fallen so far. I was really hoping for Vlade or Grant to team with Webber but those both got snapped up just before my third round pick (hence me trading back at that point). I should be able to get guys who can shoot the 3 ball better (although Blackman and Howard arent that bad) to come off the bench and with the way Im intending the team to be a very versatile 9 man rotation, that should suit me fine.

Brand vs Webber career comparison I meant to include: http://www.basketball-reference.com/...bech01&y2=2008

Last edited by AC-Cobra; 06-01-2008 at 02:08 PM. Reason: linky
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