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Old 05-30-2008, 04:36 PM   #9376
kidcolin
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

exactly (just draft trying to build a franchise forgot about post-draft nonsense leave that for the mouth breathers)
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Old 05-30-2008, 04:38 PM   #9377
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

So is the life cycle of this seasons from starting date or age, or what? Also who is going to decide what kind of production my young player is going to have in season 10. Or who is going to decide what if Grant Hill never got hurt what his production would be? IDK, the after-game is going to get kinda rediculous to track and make decisions on.
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Old 05-30-2008, 04:41 PM   #9378
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I actually agree with KC that we should draft now and worry about those details later.
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Old 05-30-2008, 04:42 PM   #9379
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

who says we need anything post-draft anyway? if the only reason is that we want the self-satisfaction of having the best team, we should all just sit around auto-fellating ourselves worshiping God McHale (ldo) and all of the other guys who would be top 5 picks if they hadn't have gotten hurt, or were in the right system, or didn't have other problems.
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Old 05-30-2008, 04:53 PM   #9380
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Because it would be fun
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Old 05-30-2008, 05:10 PM   #9381
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarkNasty View Post
I have no idea how anyone who has watched them both play can say Biedrens»Kaman. That's just nuts imo.
Kaman is 26, has played five seasons in the NBA plus another three in college, and has probably reached his ceiling, Biedrins is 22, has played four seasons and gotten a lot less playing time, and made pretty big improvements the last two years, I think it's pretty reasonable to say that he can still improve. One reason for his lower playing time is because he fouled so much, but he has gotten better at staying out of foul trouble so in the next few years he could be a top 10 center in the league if he isn't already.
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Old 05-30-2008, 05:24 PM   #9382
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Some thoughts catching up:

I really don't like how you have built your team Tbach. I think that each pick that you've made can be considered a strong pick as individual picks, but you've created a team with a huge amount of risk. The correct strategy would be to surround Kemp and Hill with high stability players, and you pretty much went in the opposite direction of that.

Its a lot easier to argue that one high reward high risk player than 4. I don't know how you can expect us to just ignore all the risk on your squad.

Kaman > Beidrins.
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Old 05-30-2008, 05:28 PM   #9383
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Just checked in and saw there are 4 picks before me. I will be back later tonight to make a pick if I am up.
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Old 05-30-2008, 05:38 PM   #9384
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Just woke up and off to the WSOP, but I wanted to say that Durant imo is the steal of the draft so far. He was one of my 6(only one remains now). I didn't want to take him because he doesn't mesh with my team, but I absolutely would've taken him next round and maybe used him as a 6th man and drafted my starter later. Imo, looking back on this draft 3 years from now, we're going to laugh at how far he fell.

I mean seriously, barring injury, his floor is someone like Melo who went in the 2nd round. His ceiling is top 10 overall talent. And he goes in the 4th round....crazy value imo.
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Old 05-30-2008, 05:49 PM   #9385
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
The correct strategy would be to surround Kemp and Hill with high stability players, and you pretty much went in the opposite direction of that.
Why? Is his goal to field a competitive but never championship team? The beauty of his team prior to the Durant pick, was that when things go well its the best team in the league. A legit shot at multiple championships. If he takes Hill+ solid players he will most likely have a solid team, never a great one. With Kemp and S, he can roll to the title, or flame out.
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Old 05-30-2008, 05:53 PM   #9386
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franchise 60 View Post
Some thoughts catching up:

I really don't like how you have built your team Tbach. I think that each pick that you've made can be considered a strong pick as individual picks, but you've created a team with a huge amount of risk. The correct strategy would be to surround Kemp and Hill with high stability players, and you pretty much went in the opposite direction of that.

Its a lot easier to argue that one high reward high risk player than 4. I don't know how you can expect us to just ignore all the risk on your squad.
See this is funny. We're only 4 picks into this baby. Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean by "huge amount of risk" but Hill was very good for awhile, and during this stretch so will be Sabonis and Kemp. So I'll have three guys who can play 4-6 seasons very well, where my team will be elite. At the same time, Durant will be developing into a nice player, where he won't have to shoulder too much risk, will see what it's like to play in a very competitive and winning atmosphere and develop into a player somewhere between 'Melo and Kobe IMO (and Assani's IMO as well). So long as I surround him with other players who have decent careers, I've got pretty good prospects in terms of my team doing well in the future.

Couple this with the fact that he'll be young when your teams are old and I think I'm doing pretty good in this thing.

BTW, I was trying to think of why Durant hasn't been drafted until now, and it makes a lot of sense. Who wants to wait on a great player? That's why he lasted until the 4th round (although Bobbo actually talked me out of drafting him 3rd round). It's not because he doesn't have it, it's because to be competitive right away, he's not going to help you, unless he's your 3rd or 4th player drafted.
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Old 05-30-2008, 05:59 PM   #9387
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

The passing of time
And all of its crimes
Is making me sad again
The passing of time
And all of its sickening crimes
Is making me sad again
But don't forget the songs
That made you cry
And the songs that saved your life
Yes, you're older now
And you're a clever swine
But they were the only ones who ever stood by you
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Old 05-30-2008, 06:05 PM   #9388
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
Just woke up and off to the WSOP, but I wanted to say that Durant imo is the steal of the draft so far. He was one of my 6(only one remains now). I didn't want to take him because he doesn't mesh with my team, but I absolutely would've taken him next round and maybe used him as a 6th man and drafted my starter later. Imo, looking back on this draft 3 years from now, we're going to laugh at how far he fell.

I mean seriously, barring injury, his floor is someone like Melo who went in the 2nd round. His ceiling is top 10 overall talent. And he goes in the 4th round....crazy value imo.
Agreed. My reasons for liking Durant are the same as ones for Chris Paul. People automatically assume youth equals uncertainty equals bad, but not when the range is between borderline all-star and top 5 generational superstar.
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Old 05-30-2008, 06:13 PM   #9389
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by kidcolin View Post
The passing of time
And all of its crimes
Is making me sad again
The passing of time
And all of its sickening crimes
Is making me sad again
But don't forget the songs
That made you cry
And the songs that saved your life
Yes, you're older now
And you're a clever swine
But they were the only ones who ever stood by you
And I'm listening to Umut Gokcen and Ulrich Schnauss - "Between Us and Them" (Umut's Paradise Mix)
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Old 05-30-2008, 06:21 PM   #9390
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

can a mod edit this in plz

Round 4 Pick 134

Jason Terry






I had been targeting Mark Jackson with this pick as my team needed a floor leader and who better than the #2 all-time assist leader. Alas, he was taken so I decided to bolster my lineup with Jason Terry aka JET. Terry is not a true point and normally struggles to guard the 2, but with MJ on the team he can play the role of a combo guard much in the mold of current NBA prospect Jerryd Bayless. Terry is one of the most durable players in the league only missing 12 games over his 8 year career.

With Terry leading the fast break and J-Smoove and MJ running on the wings my fast break-offense will be devastating and will thrive off of superior defense and blocks coming from Smith and Camby. Terry is also a pure shooter that can’t be left alone. His career PER of 17.7 is excellent value at this stage of the draft and career TS% of .554 is phenomenal for a scoring guard. Shooting 38% from 3pt land over his career will help spread the court and not allow his defender to gravitate towards MJ. One of his main weaknesses is his defense, but mainly because he was always asked to guard a normally bigger 2 guard. On my team MJ will handle the 2 leaving Terry to defend against most PGs. His blazing speed allows for him to drive and dish to a cutting Smith and Jordan much like the Memphis Tigers did this past season. I have probably fielded the most athletic team so far and Terry only adds more athleticism.

Age 24
19ppg
5.7apg
1.8 steals per game
19.2 PER
.549 TS%

Team So Far

G-Michael Jordan
G-Jason Terry
F-Josh Smith
F/C- Marcus Camby
F-
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Old 05-30-2008, 06:28 PM   #9391
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Ok, will be picking shortly. No more 30 hour wait!
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Old 05-30-2008, 06:31 PM   #9392
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

So excited!
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Old 05-30-2008, 06:36 PM   #9393
Assani Fisher
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by capone0 View Post
How much better are Reggie, Wilkins, VC than Manu, Ray Allen Chris Mullin who were all selected in the second round? I don't think there is a huge gap here.

Wilkins was no doubt a great player. I didn't say he wasn't. I just don't think he's very special other than being a great scorer. He's not that efficient, he plays little to no D, and doesn't pass very well for a SF. As I mentioned throughout this thread, elite scorers are available throughout this draft. Wilkins could be considered should be considered the top fo the heap of those scorers, but I don't think he's that much better than guys selected after him with respect to their entire games. I feel the same way about Drexler. If I'm picking in the first round a guy I personally want a guy who can play both ways and play them well b/c there really aren't a ton of guys who can do that at an elite level. With that being said there aren't many of those guys period and as you go down the first round the list of problems with players definitely grows.

VC-talent alone yeah he has great talent; production, d, team-work, he has definitely a lot to work on.

Reggie-As I said, he probally was going first round. Personally I wouldn't want to be the guy having to pick him for similar reasons to Wilkins and Drexler. With that being said, the reason he was picked is b/c he is rediculously efficient for a guard.
agree with this completely
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Old 05-30-2008, 06:39 PM   #9394
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarkNasty View Post
This is totally absurd. Three people have been banned for violating the rule and it's been a total non-issue for a while now. Frankly, you've been the biggest (and almost only) violator of it for quite some time. Once all the early super-duper-studs were gone, we all agreed the rule made sense and supported you. In addition to bannings, I've deleted and edited literally dozens of posts. Stop acting like a tool please - you're better than that. I'd hate to ban you in your own awesome thread.
I still think it did no harm to quote someone elses post who had already mention the player and mention him again. With that said....

I apologize to everyone for breaking the rule, and it won't happen again.



Finally though, Clark, I think it was pretty "toolish" of you to be the biggest breakers of the rule early on because you on your own decided that it wouldn't influence other people, but then later on you on your own decide that it will so it needs to stop.



Regardless, we've all made some mistakes here. I apologize to tbach, you, and everyone else for mine.
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Old 05-30-2008, 06:40 PM   #9395
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

btw Clark,

I posted the Harper>Mookie comment partly just to joke at you, but I also am legitimately interested in debating it if you'd like to. Did you consider Harper at all, and if so why didn't you take him? Again, not trying to bash your pick...just starting a friendly debate.
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Old 05-30-2008, 06:45 PM   #9396
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by BiiiiigChips View Post
Again how bad was 'Nique's defense? Did every one who he guarded torch him for 40? No. The guys who got 30 against every one else pretty much got 30 against him and the guys who got 15 against every one else pretty much got 15 against him. Now Pippen vs Wilkins is an interesting debate but Wilkins vs the other 5 I'm taking 'Nique every time. There are only so many elite scorers and if you look at championship teams that either had an elite scorer, an elite big man or both. You can always get a pretty good two way player later on in the draft. You can't get a guy that can take over a game later on in the draft though.
I really disagree with this when using your definition of elite, which seems to be the ability to put up 25-30 points on poor efficiency. I will agree with you that there are only so many great efficient scorers who score in bulk(but Nique doesn't do that).

I obviously can't name names of undrafted players, but theres a ton of guys who could put up big numbers inefficiently.
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Old 05-30-2008, 06:48 PM   #9397
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by EPiPeN11 View Post
+1 it really makes me wonder if these guys even watch the NBA sometimes
I disagree with this completely(you quoted a guy saying we're getting carried away with efficiency numbers and stuff).

If you watch the games you'll come back with "OMG Vince Carter is awesome" type of stuff and "Man Tim Duncan is pretty damn unspectacular."

When you crunch the efficiency and defensive numbers, you come back with what wins basketball games imo.
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Old 05-30-2008, 06:48 PM   #9398
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Assani,

On the player naming, I admitted your position had merit once the "hall of famers" were gone early on. I agree I pushed the joke too far - you are right. However, I have spent a lot of time enforcing your rule since that time and I think it's a good one, and an even more important rule the later it goes in the draft.

I did consider all the PGs who went around Mookie (Cassell, Harper, Brandon), but Mookie was significantly better on D than any of them imo, and really not all that much worse on offense considering he's likely a 10ppg guy on my team. He turns the ball over rarely, at his peak was a 9 assist guy, and does everything my team needs him to do. He really was good at disturbing another teams offense, and was good at running the break, which I think my team will be able to do selectively given how many TOs are caused by Nance, Ewing and himself.

I don't think that he's way better than any of them and think that they are all really close in value, to the point of being irrelevant. I would've traded down again had I been more available, but I was on vacation and didn't have time to shop around and didn't want to slow everyone up.
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Old 05-30-2008, 06:51 PM   #9399
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by capone0 View Post
Of course, I used an extreme example. But there are a bunch of guys who can shoot well. Maybe not all that can create their own shot. My point is Wilkins isn't OMG amazing, he took a ton of shots, his FG% and TS% are good but not amazing. If the reason your picking him early is b/c he can take over games, I think the reason he can take over games is b/c he takes so many shots. I know their is a value of guys who can create their own shot vs guys who need a pick set for them and Dom definitely had that, but in comparison to others I don't think his value is really that great b/c he can take the game over.
The whole "he can take over a game" is selectively memory from watching games(surprise surprise...watching a game and then evaluating isn't a great way to do things because we're selectively biased). You remember his great games in which it seemed like he couldn't miss, but you forget the other ones which are responsible for his low efficiency numbers.
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Old 05-30-2008, 06:52 PM   #9400
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by kidcolin View Post
this was for the first mention. Now lose some draft slots for the second. Absurd. The dude who mentioned it isn't in this draft, probably didn't realize the rule.. a couple of guys quoted his post and they deleted it when I asked them to. Then Mr. InCharge walks in and completely disregards it completely just because he feels like it.
I thought it was obvious that the warning must come and then you must break it again to be penalized(otherwise you never got warned). I have been warned.
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