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Old 05-30-2008, 08:51 AM   #9176
Assani Fisher
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

btw...

Corey Maggette>>>>>Steve Smith/Allan Houston


Maggette's stats:


Age 24
20.7 points on 58.6% TS
20.1 PER
5.9 rebounds
3.1 assists

Age 25
22.2 points on 57.4% TS
19.9 PER
6.0 rebounds
3.4 assists

Age 26
17.8 points on 58.4% TS
18.9 PER
5.3 rebounds
2.1 assists

Age 27
16.9 points on 58.3% TS
18.6 PER
5.9 rebounds
2.8 assists

Age 28
22.1 points on 59.5% TS
19.3 PER
5.6 rebounds
2.7 assists




I don't think any of these players are great at D and they were clearly picked for their O. And I think Maggette is head and shoulders above them in offensive production.
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Old 05-30-2008, 09:13 AM   #9177
capone0
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
btw...

Corey Maggette>>>>>Steve Smith/Allan Houston


Maggette's stats:


Age 24
20.7 points on 58.6% TS
20.1 PER
5.9 rebounds
3.1 assists

Age 25
22.2 points on 57.4% TS
19.9 PER
6.0 rebounds
3.4 assists

Age 26
17.8 points on 58.4% TS
18.9 PER
5.3 rebounds
2.1 assists

Age 27
16.9 points on 58.3% TS
18.6 PER
5.9 rebounds
2.8 assists

Age 28
22.1 points on 59.5% TS
19.3 PER
5.6 rebounds
2.7 assists




I don't think any of these players are great at D and they were clearly picked for their O. And I think Maggette is head and shoulders above them in offensive production.
Maggette really isn't as much of a shooter though. I had Maggette scouted, he missed on average 15-20 games per season in his 9 year career. I wanted a jump shooter, Maggette is average at best doing that. He's too much like Iggy for me to draft him. Also in comparison to SS or AH he isn't much of a 3 point shooter. The reason his TS% is so high is his ability to get to the line which is b/c he goes into the lane a lot. Don't get me wrong he is a good player but he is very different player overall from SS or AH, he isn't a pure shooter.

Last edited by capone0; 05-30-2008 at 09:18 AM.
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Old 05-30-2008, 09:44 AM   #9178
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I am going to sleep until about 7pm pacific time, at which point I will wake up and make my pick if it is my turn, if it is not my turn at 7pm then I will make my pick by 5am. Is this alright I dont want to get skipped again
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Old 05-30-2008, 09:50 AM   #9179
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
Getting to the finals in an ultra weak conference by winning two game 7s and then losing handily in the finals isn't really proof that he is a huge winner, although people seem to use it as such(not saying you are here) all the time.

AI is tough to build around because:

1. He plays SG on offense, yet is too short to guard SGs on defense a lot of the time.

2. He shoots the ball a ton
I think 1 and 2 are both easy to get around. You have 9 picks to address each one. Draft a big guard for defense if that's what you want and put good players around him so he doesn't have to shoot as much. Pretty simple. He can definitley carry a team you just have to give him help. Do you know how *****ty that sixers team was that he took to the Finals? That team was not very good. It was him and 11 role players. You say that he got through a weak East a needed two game sevens which is true but again, it's not like the sixers had a juggernaut team. Just the fact that he was able to will his team to the finals is a huge accomplishment. You say that he got killed by the Lakers in the series but EVERY TEAM did that year. The Lakers lost one playoff game that year and that was the game where they had absolutley no answer for Iverson. Were the sixers going to win that series? Of course not, but just the fact that they were able to take a game off the Lakers says something about Iverson. He's a great competitor and the dude can just flat out ball. He can play point or shooting guard and I think you can have a very good team around the guy if you build the team right.
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Old 05-30-2008, 09:53 AM   #9180
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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See team USA. He's still a shoot first pg. Yes he's extremely talented I just think it's hard to build around an undersized SG who wants to be a PG. He also weighs 160 pounds which is tiny when you have guys like LBJ playing the swing in the NBA.
Team USA for 2004 was a cluster f**k and Larry Brown's ego getting in the was the problem with that team not Allen Iverson. He was hell bent on not playing Melo or Lebron. No way in hell should that team came away with anything less than gold. The team had no chemistry.
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Old 05-30-2008, 09:53 AM   #9181
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

assani fix both of your posts that is ridiculous he's going to go very soon
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Old 05-30-2008, 09:55 AM   #9182
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Also, Assani mentioned an undrafted, yet prominent player twice. By his rules doesn't he move down 10 slots on his next pick?
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Old 05-30-2008, 09:56 AM   #9183
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

You can get around it but you still have a 6-0 maybe, 160 SG/PG as your best player in a stacked league. He's a ball hog, maybe he's more efficient now but he's nowhere near as efficient as most of the players selected in the first round who are offensive first guys. Yes he can play D but his D is overrated.

Now he's been paired with Melo and a bunch of other good players and the team has no chance of winning a good WC with a skilled squad. Yes he got to the finals in the low point of the EC. There is no doubt he's an ultra talented player but I'd rather have a lot of other players who might have not won an MVP before him.
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Old 05-30-2008, 09:58 AM   #9184
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Team USA for 2004 was a cluster f**k and Larry Brown's ego getting in the was the problem with that team not Allen Iverson. He was hell bent on not playing Melo or Lebron. No way in hell should that team came away with anything less than gold. The team had no chemistry.
And Iverson was the leading scorer and MPG player of that team.
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Old 05-30-2008, 09:59 AM   #9185
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Maggette really isn't as much of a shooter though. I had Maggette scouted, he missed on average 15-20 games per season in his 9 year career. I wanted a jump shooter, Maggette is average at best doing that. He's too much like Iggy for me to draft him. Also in comparison to SS or AH he isn't much of a 3 point shooter. The reason his TS% is so high is his ability to get to the line which is b/c he goes into the lane a lot. Don't get me wrong he is a good player but he is very different player overall from SS or AH, he isn't a pure shooter.
I admit that I didn't look at either of your teams before writing that post, so you're probably totally right regarding the needs of your team. I just think Maggette was a steal this late.
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Old 05-30-2008, 09:59 AM   #9186
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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And Iverson was the leading scorer and MPG player of that team.
So it's Iverson's fault that Larry Brown gave him the most minutes? I don't understand your point.
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Old 05-30-2008, 09:59 AM   #9187
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by NopairParker View Post
I am going to sleep until about 7pm pacific time, at which point I will wake up and make my pick if it is my turn, if it is not my turn at 7pm then I will make my pick by 5am. Is this alright I dont want to get skipped again
when were you ever skipped???
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Old 05-30-2008, 10:00 AM   #9188
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

agree with both capone and assani here. maggette is better than both, but both of those guys excel more at shooting.
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Old 05-30-2008, 10:01 AM   #9189
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by NopairParker View Post
I am going to sleep until about 7pm pacific time, at which point I will wake up and make my pick if it is my turn, if it is not my turn at 7pm then I will make my pick by 5am. Is this alright I dont want to get skipped again
are you not a native english speaker or something? you've written this like 10 times. you have never gotten skipped.
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Old 05-30-2008, 10:02 AM   #9190
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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assani fix both of your posts that is ridiculous he's going to go very soon
I can't fix his post, as I'm not a mod....and since it was already there, I didn't see how me mentioning it hurt. To be honest, I'm tired of policing this as nobody seems to respect the rule anyway. I wish people would just follow the rule out of courtest, but I'm pretty much done trying to heavily enforce it as its pointless.
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Old 05-30-2008, 10:02 AM   #9191
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Wow, Iverson is absurdly underrated on these boards.

A) That's probably the best team on defense so far. Nobody protects the rim better than Big Ben and Thorpe is a very good defensive player as well. Plus, Iverson has some of the quickest hands on defense I've ever seen.

B) Offensively, yeah Iverson isn't too efficient, but those Philly teams were literally the worst offensively besides him. Now that the entire focus of the defense won't be on him (assuming he's able to draft some other solid offensive players), Iverson will be able to + his efficiency (like in Denver). Also, they're going to own the glass on both ends of the floor.
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Old 05-30-2008, 10:03 AM   #9192
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
I can't fix his post, as I'm not a mod....and since it was already there, I didn't see how me mentioning it hurt. To be honest, I'm tired of policing this as nobody seems to respect the rule anyway. I wish people would just follow the rule out of courtest, but I'm pretty much done trying to heavily enforce it as its pointless.
wat?

Nobody mentions players anymore and when they do they get berated. Don't add to the trouble just because he was already named, it would probably get buried in the thread. You are literally the KING of hypocrisy.
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Old 05-30-2008, 10:03 AM   #9193
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Also, Assani mentioned an undrafted, yet prominent player twice. By his rules doesn't he move down 10 slots on his next pick?
warning first. I never got a warning from myself


Seriously, who did I mention? It wasn't intentional at all if I did it. I know I mentioned that youtube video, but that was only after another poster had mentioned him, so it didn't matter.
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Old 05-30-2008, 10:04 AM   #9194
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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agree with both capone and assani here. maggette is better than both, but both of those guys excel more at shooting.
Maggette is definitely great value at this point, as I thought AH and SS were as well considering who has been picked before them. With that being said, there are still a bunch of players very like Maggette who aren't as efficient who haven't been picked. Maggette for his career length and ability was definitely a great pick at this point, the reason I went Iggy over him is simple, Iggy is a much better defender and seems to be a healtheir player (only missed 6 games in 4 years in the league). But in comparison to other no D swings who went before him Maggette is probally very good value right now. His offensive set is more like Tracy than a shooter, his biggest asset is getting to the line though.
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Old 05-30-2008, 10:05 AM   #9195
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

By that case, I should be able to re-name a bunch of players that soon should be drafted that were already posted much earlier in the thread. But I won't, why? Because it's against the rules to do it at all
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Old 05-30-2008, 10:07 AM   #9196
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Yeah CM is better than Houston and Steve Smith, but at this point it's not about BPA. Houston and Smith are def better fits for those teams as they can both drop the 3 ball. Also, CM definitely has some injury issues.
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Old 05-30-2008, 10:08 AM   #9197
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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warning first. I never got a warning from myself


Seriously, who did I mention? It wasn't intentional at all if I did it. I know I mentioned that youtube video, but that was only after another poster had mentioned him, so it didn't matter.
BB
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Old 05-30-2008, 10:08 AM   #9198
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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wat?

Nobody mentions players anymore and when they do they get berated. Don't add to the trouble just because he was already named, it would probably get buried in the thread. You are literally the KING of hypocrisy.
Someone else mentioned him. I responded to his post not realizing that he had mentioned an undrafted player. I realized it, went back and edited it and said "yea no mentioning players", but honestly as you can tell I've lost the desire to fight this fight anymore.

In the first round it was Clark doing it all the time. Then Bobbo did it a bunch. Tons of others did it throughout the draft. All along I've asked people to stop. I've even PMed people. I've even threatened penalties. People just don't seem to care, so I'm done caring. I will not mention undrafted players that nobody else has mentioned, so I don't see why you're upset at me. Someone else mentioned it, and to be honest I just don't care anymore about enforcing the rule.
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Old 05-30-2008, 10:10 AM   #9199
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I'd appreciate if you'd go back and delete your posts as him being mentioned 3x will undoubtedly be seen more than him being mentioned 1x. Or if it's too late if you would PM a moderator with the #'s of your posts to delete them. And by and large those people have stopped naming players and I haven't seen either do it in nearly a round. I thought that whole nonsense had stopped.
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Old 05-30-2008, 10:11 AM   #9200
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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You can get around it but you still have a 6-0 maybe, 160 SG/PG as your best player in a stacked league. He's a ball hog, maybe he's more efficient now but he's nowhere near as efficient as most of the players selected in the first round who are offensive first guys. Yes he can play D but his D is overrated.

Now he's been paired with Melo and a bunch of other good players and the team has no chance of winning a good WC with a skilled squad. Yes he got to the finals in the low point of the EC. There is no doubt he's an ultra talented player but I'd rather have a lot of other players who might have not won an MVP before him.
Why does it matter if your best player is 6 feet or 8 feet? You have 9 other picks to put players around him. It's not a 1 on 5 league. I think you guys are getting a little too carried away with number crunching, efficency ratios and a bunch of other geeky stats. Iverson is easily one of the best two or three scorers from the guard position in the last 10 years or so. The #1 thing should be if the guy can play or not and he obviously can. The guy can do pretty much anything for you at the one or two. Obviously at 6'0 it's going to be tough for him to cover a big guard but that's fine because when he's on offense he's causing an even bigger headache for the opposition. The team he is on now is okay but they are going absolutley no where. They have no chemistry and play absolutely no defense. Melo looks as if he's turning into a malcontent and it doesn't look like the coach and management or on the same page. Allen Iverson is not the problem with that team as most who know the situation will say.
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