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Old 05-29-2008, 10:57 PM   #8951
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

im with nath on this one, i think. as i've said before though, i was a suns fanboy when i was younger
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Old 05-29-2008, 10:57 PM   #8952
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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also i that my name is all over this thread and you still wrote "Nate"

lol sorry ;/ gut reaction to see n - a - t
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Old 05-29-2008, 11:05 PM   #8953
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by kidcolin View Post
No order, just taking a quick glance:

worst: Bynum, Biedrins, Mason, Marbury, Horford

best: Moncrief, Derek Harper, Ray Allen, Detlef, Mark Aguirre
I'd go(also in no order and keeping my own team out of it):

worst: Marbury, Horford, Boozer(only because of team fit), McHale, Bynum, Battier

best: Moncrief, Pierce(really not getting enough love), Deron Williams, Mullin, Pippen, Eddie Jones
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Old 05-29-2008, 11:07 PM   #8954
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by BiiiiigChips View Post
You can put him at the one or two. Yes you might have to work a little harder when selecting players to put around him but just as a flat out talent and what he did with his career for what he had to work with I don't see 31 players ahead of Allen Iverson. Part of the reason why he took so many shots is because he was on really bad teams. He never had the luxury of playing with another star in his prime like alot of the other players have. As far as the last comment will if you have on short guy, don't start another one at the pg. That's pretty simple to get around.
I think he was decent value at 32, but it is very hard to build around him imo.
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Old 05-29-2008, 11:08 PM   #8955
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by capone0 View Post
Ray Allen is a pure shooter who can't play D. His assist #s and rebound #s are good for a pure shooter but nothing special for a swing man. His PER is again good but not amazing for a guy who shoots. His TS% is also pretty high for a pure shooter but Reggie's is higher.

Mullin had a slightly lower PER, higher TS% similar rebounding and assist #s and averaged nearly the same # of PPG for their career and this considering we are including 5 years in which he heavily declined from his max. You think Ray Allen is 30 picks better than Mullin, get real.
Ray Allen vs Reggie Miller would be an interesting debate imo. Honestly no clue how I feel right now.
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Old 05-29-2008, 11:08 PM   #8956
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I'm filtering through some players, playing some MTTs, and watching Laker game...pick up as soon as I can make a decision.
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Old 05-29-2008, 11:08 PM   #8957
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by sergsz View Post
Schrempf had a higher career PER than Petrovic. I know PER isn't everything, but Petrovic's career PER only encompasses his age 25-28 seasons - the typical peak period for most players. Schrempf's carrer PER encompasses his age 23-38 seasons. The most compelling ciriticism of PER is its failure to take defense into account. By all accounts, Schrempf was a better defender than Petrovic. It is pretty crazy to argue the Petrovic was as good as Schrempf, or even particularly close.
Is someone really arguing Petrovic>Schrempf??
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Old 05-29-2008, 11:11 PM   #8958
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
I'd go(also in no order and keeping my own team out of it):

worst: Marbury, Horford, Boozer(only because of team fit), McHale, Bynum, Battier

best: Moncrief, Pierce(really not getting enough love), Deron Williams, Mullin, Pippen, Eddie Jones
lol @ McHale being the worst I hope that was a joke
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Old 05-29-2008, 11:11 PM   #8959
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
Is someone really arguing Petrovic>Schrempf??
did you miss the Grant Hill is more durable than Schrempf argument? Detlef is getting picked on hardcore today
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Old 05-29-2008, 11:13 PM   #8960
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by KLJ View Post
did you miss the Grant Hill is more durable than Schrempf argument? Detlef is getting picked on hardcore today
he was also selected by this analyst as the best pick of the 3rd round. the highs and lows of detlef schrempf
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Old 05-29-2008, 11:14 PM   #8961
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by EPiPeN11 View Post
OMG USAGE!!!!!!

Put Petrovic on a good team of role players, where he was the best player on the team, and he could easily be a franchise player.
I hate how someone uses stats to prove you wrong, and then you just mock the stat and maintain that you're right. You do realize that its ok to admit you're wrong every now and then and change your view, no?

You claimed that he was a franchise player, yet he never had the highest usage on offense, and I certainly don't think you're claiming he was a franchise player due to his defense.


This is my main problem with you. You put forth some good arguments most of the time, yet you just can't admit defeat ever.

For example, if I were in your shoes in this debate then I would've responded "Wow, I never realized that. Good point." But you just mock the stat when it doesn't fit your argument(yet you'll turn around and use similar stats when they help you).
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Old 05-29-2008, 11:15 PM   #8962
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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lol @ McHale being the worst I hope that was a joke
dont start...just let it go
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Old 05-29-2008, 11:17 PM   #8963
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Assani I am not going to respond to you again until you learn how to multiquote seriously it's freaking annoying. It's the button right next to the quote button, press it everytime you want to quote something, then at the end when u surf through all the pages, hit the quote button and respond to each quote.

Multiquote also lets you wait until you read the entire thread before u respond to all the quotes at once, so you can see if your points have already been said/proven invalid or not.

Last edited by EPiPeN11; 05-29-2008 at 11:23 PM.
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Old 05-29-2008, 11:18 PM   #8964
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by EPiPeN11 View Post
I noticed u ignored this, so i'll say it again.

Petrovic WAS some sick talent, he is arguably the best shooter IN NBA HISTORY.

Reggie Miller is the last person who would admit someone was a better shooter than him and a person who obv knows a ton about shooting. He went on record like a week ago on TNT as saying he was the 2nd best shooter of all time. Who was the first? Was it Larry Bird? No. IT WAS DRAZEN PETROVIC.

And freakin 51% and 45% from 3 is RIDICULOUS from a guard who scores 20+ ppg, it's not "just pretty damn good". He also was held out of playing time in Portland, where he could have probably put up similar (maybe slightly worse) numbers, and had no signs of slowing down either, he would have at least been able to put up similar numbers until like 30-31 had he not died.
car crash prone ftw.

Also he must be penalized somewhat for not getting playing time. Perhaps he wasn't good enough then and improved a lot as many players first do when they enter the league. We can't just assume that he 100% surely could've played that well as soon as he entered the league.
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Old 05-29-2008, 11:19 PM   #8965
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by BobboFitos View Post
lol sorry ;/ gut reaction to see n - a - t
hehe, it's all good. i don't get offended, with my name you have to have a sense of humor about people botching it
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Old 05-29-2008, 11:19 PM   #8966
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

lol i love when assani goes through the thread and rehashes topics that have been mostly put to rest
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Old 05-29-2008, 11:22 PM   #8967
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by EPiPeN11 View Post
how to multiquote, it's the button right next to the quote button
Lol thanks for pointing this out, I didn't know either.
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Old 05-29-2008, 11:22 PM   #8968
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by sergsz View Post
I think the % of players who slow down significantly in their early 30s is much much higher than you think. The stars who maintain their level of play are probably more vivid in your memory because they get more attention than the players who burn out, but they are the exception and not the rule.
+1

I've looked over a ton of older players due to this draft, and there are a ton who declined around age 30.
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Old 05-29-2008, 11:25 PM   #8969
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
+1

I've looked over a ton of older players due to this draft, and there are a ton who declined around age 30.
Could have used you in this topic earlier.
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Old 05-29-2008, 11:25 PM   #8970
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by nath View Post
Wow, great argument. I'm convinced.
Its especially funny because hes a young guy who probably didn't see a lot of DP's games. If he had seen the games and formed an opinion off that, then maybe his "You stat guys suck, this guy is better because I say so" would have some, albeit small, merit. As is though, its just him forming an opinion and sticking to it no matter what anyone else says. I still havn't seen him change his mind once in this thread.
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Old 05-29-2008, 11:30 PM   #8971
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by AC-Cobra View Post
ePeen,

You make good points and bad points. Unfortunately you choose to scream from the rooftops and never back down on any point regardless of how flawed your logic (if its flawed, it can be perfectly fine as well) is so the good points are getting lost within all the bad points and the screaming noise.
.
my thoughts exactly.
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Old 05-29-2008, 11:37 PM   #8972
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by tbach24 View Post
yeah I just don't think that players are doomed. like penny/grant/others who suffered career enders are no more than 10% to suffer those injuries IMO and were just unlucky. i didn't want to let this linger, but seeing as this will, i'm willing to let it be, for now.

i wanna see some more picks, my next one will blow your miiiiiiiiiiind.
I just want to say that I support this notion!!!
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Old 05-29-2008, 11:38 PM   #8973
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Franchise 60 View Post
Could have used you in this topic earlier.
WSOP man...I'm only home now to watch Lost and then its back out there. +$2000 today so far btw!
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Old 05-29-2008, 11:40 PM   #8974
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
I'd go(also in no order and keeping my own team out of it):

worst: Marbury, Horford, Boozer(only because of team fit), McHale, Bynum, Battier

best: Moncrief, Pierce(really not getting enough love), Deron Williams, Mullin, Pippen, Eddie Jones
I'm gonna have to strongly disagree with these lists.
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Old 05-29-2008, 11:41 PM   #8975
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Round 4, pick 136 - Allan Houston - H20

Heartbreaker






First, let's all recognize that he influenced the sport so much they named a rule after him. Pow.

With a solid defensive core with Mookie Blaylock (6x all defense), Larry Nance (3x all defense), Patrick Ewing (amazingly only 3x all defense), I needed a pure scorer to help round things out. Many have noted that a lot of pure scorers were falling and Allan is the one who was a perfect fit for what my team needs.

One of the great all-time 3pt shooters, Allan Houston averaged 40.2% for his career while attempting 4 per game, and is currently 10th all time in 3pt shots made. Averaging nearly 20ppg, his high scoring duel with Kobe Bryant in 2002 when he outscored him 53-40 received tons of national spotlight.

For his 8 year prime, this two-time All-Star was basically a 19/3/3/1 guy with low turnovers given how much he touched the ball. His career PER is 15, not surprising given his role as a pure shooter/scorer. His career TS% is a respectable 55%, especially at this point in the draft. One of the most efficient high-end scorers left.

Incredibly durable, he averaged 80/82 games played in his first 10 seasons. It wasn't until a freak knee injury at 32yo that he missed any significant time.

Long and lanky at 6'6", teams sometimes put a SF on him to try and slow him down. While never a confused with a particularly good defender, he's a little underrated, with over 10 DWS 3x, and a 5 year stretch with a 104 DRTG during that same timeframe from his 25-29yo seasons.

Also a quiet clubhouse leader, Allan Houston was often mentioned as the kind of locker room leader that helps team chemistry.

With Ewing and Nance working inside the arc, Houston provides a great outside threat who can beat his man off the dribble if they overplay him one on one. Obviously a good team on defense, my squad is shaping up as a balanced offensive team that can rotate the ball and create lots of high % looks off penetration and dishes from Mookie or opportunities created from our strong play in the post. This is also a team with sneaky athleticism, something that can only help the Big Fella down low as we create lots of turnovers and look to selectively break for easy points.

This team is built to win in a playoff type format for a long time with durable, long lived players who complement each other well. Hopefully I can secure another solid wing type player to round out hopefully a quality starting five.


Team so far:

Mookie Blaylock PG
Allan Houston SG
Larry Nance F
Patrick Ewing C
Updated
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