Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Sporting Events Discussion centered around sporting events.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-29-2008, 10:25 PM   #8926
HighStakesPro
banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 1,949
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by KLJ View Post
wait, wait wait. this has serious implications, and i would have picked someone different earlier. we get the damaged goods 24 year old right?
Okay because I was thinking of maybe stealing Jay Williams later in the draft but I guess this rules him out.
HighStakesPro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 10:25 PM   #8927
tbach24
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
tbach24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: @tbach2
Posts: 11,476
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

houston sports a higher 3 pt%, FG%, and FT%, how the **** does smith have a better ts%? (i know the answer, i just think it's ridiculous how **** like that works)
tbach24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 10:25 PM   #8928
kidcolin
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
kidcolin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: thank god for the hatchery
Posts: 108,763
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

yeah I didn't expect smith to slip this far to be honest
kidcolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 10:26 PM   #8929
kidcolin
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
kidcolin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: thank god for the hatchery
Posts: 108,763
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbach24 View Post
houston sports a higher 3 pt%, FG%, and FT%, how the **** does smith have a better ts%? (i know the answer, i just think it's ridiculous how **** like that works)
the point is efficiency. Houston shoots sick from deep, but only shoots 4-5 a game and takes a lot of 2s where ~40% shooting sux. That's what I meant about a pure shooter thrust into a bulk scoring role. Which is why I'm OK with how he fits on Clark's squad, because he won't be the first offensive option.
kidcolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 10:28 PM   #8930
DontRaisePlz
old hand
 
DontRaisePlz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: mountain dew machine
Posts: 1,565
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

tbach: Smith probably got to the FT line more?
DontRaisePlz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 10:30 PM   #8931
tbach24
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
tbach24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: @tbach2
Posts: 11,476
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

lol i said right afterward i know the answer, i just think it's funny when stuff like that happens. we learned about the theorem in statistics (although i already knew it because i'm wicked smaht), anyone know the name of it?
tbach24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 10:31 PM   #8932
nath
the second coming of the second coming
 
nath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Rust and Marty, a hundred years
Posts: 67,726
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobboFitos View Post
i was looking at thunder dan, but again, he's a guy i thought was a lot better than how he actually played.
i was wondering if my memories were affecting my judgment, but i liked a lot of his metrics, and i feel his skill set is a great fit for my team
nath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 10:34 PM   #8933
Jon34
grinder
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Hell's Kitchen
Posts: 686
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I watched a ton of those painful knicks teams over the years. Houston was always the king of the 20-2-2 stat line. Excellent shooter out to 3 pt range. But that is all you get. As soon as he caught the ball it was going up, almost never passed, and if he did try, he wasn't good at it. A liability on the boards, even at the 2 guard. Not all that interested in defense, and had some injury issues to boot.
To be honest, especially in this format, I'd rather have a role player who can defend, bring the ball up if needed, and hit the open three than Houston.

Last edited by Jon34; 05-29-2008 at 10:34 PM. Reason: Disclosure: Admitted Boston fan and Knick hater
Jon34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 10:35 PM   #8934
KLJ
20k hands/day
 
KLJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Topeka
Posts: 5,701
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by nath View Post
i was wondering if my memories were affecting my judgment, but i liked a lot of his metrics, and i feel his skill set is a great fit for my team
i remembered him being really awesome (and actually have a majerle jersey). looking back at his stats, it appears that he was a pretty good shooter, durable for his first 7 eligible years, and a better than good defender. not to mention he was athletic. i'd much rather have him than battier imo.
KLJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 10:36 PM   #8935
Jack of Arcades
Jumbo Jack
 
Jack of Arcades's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: The Bastion
Posts: 23,569
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbach24 View Post
lol i said right afterward i know the answer, i just think it's funny when stuff like that happens. we learned about the theorem in statistics (although i already knew it because i'm wicked smaht), anyone know the name of it?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simpson%27s_paradox
Jack of Arcades is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 10:36 PM   #8936
tbach24
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
tbach24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: @tbach2
Posts: 11,476
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon34 View Post
I watched a ton of those painful knicks teams over the years. Houston was always the king of the 20-2-2 stat line. Excellent shooter out to 3 pt range. But that is all you get. As soon as he caught the ball it was going up, almost never passed, and if he did try, he wasn't good at it. A liability on the boards, even at the 2 guard. Not all that interested in defense, and had some injury issues to boot.
To be honest, especially in this format, I'd rather have a role player who can defend, bring the ball up if needed, and hit the open three than Houston.
the first paragraph i completely agree with. i was trying to remember my feelings on houston, and the "20-2-2" thing totally summed it up. haha that's pretty funny i remember as a little kid being astonished that an nba player could have numbers like that.

but on the second paragraph, with clark's already stellar defense, it's not so much an issue.
tbach24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 10:38 PM   #8937
BobboFitos
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
BobboFitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 72,764
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack of Arcades View Post
Don't like thunder dan, but I can't really explain it.
I can explain it. Than I'll explain Clark's poor choice (imo) bc, well, I think he made another blunder.

Dan Majerle
I assume Nath is going to be playing Dan at the 2, which leaves a fairly nonathletic core (including Boozer, who is a power house and for his size has alot of finesse, but is a terrible athlete) - as a preemptive warning, playing Dirk at the 3 epitomizes his athleticism deficiencies, he gets away with it at the 4 because he's better at every other thing, but quicker 3s are going to be too fast for him defensively.

Anyway, Dan in a nutshell: Big pros are health, size (if playing the 2 especially), and shooting ability. But... I always remembered him being an elite shooter, and the stats just don't back this up. He's a career 35.8% 3pt shooter (4 a game) which is basically slightly above average for a bulk number. However, his 2pt % and FT % (only career 74%, huh???) drag his TS% down. He only got to the line 2.4 times a game, peaking at 25 at 3.9 fta (in ~30 mins). The other things he brings to the table are at a below avg clip - not really a good passer, no blocks/forced TOs, at the 2 he wont really have a rebounding advatage...

Career 13.8 PER, too. Best season was 17.8. That's pretty weak, even if PER tends to underrate 3pt specialists.
Pairing wise I don't really think Nate needed to spread the floor. Calderon and Dirk are ELITE shooters, so perhaps picking up a more athletic swingman who could cover defensively or so forth would be more of a need. And again, it's the one thing Thunder Dan does well (but not elite) so I think it's redundant.

Allan Houston
So he drafts Mookie, hears criticism about needing shooting, and goes after a pure shooter who does nothing else. I don't want to say too much, but Allan will hurt you defensively. Atleast he truly was an elite 3pt shooter (40.2% on ~4 a game is pretty terrific no matter how you cut it). I can't criticize too much because he fills a need, and I don't hate the pick.

*actually, note in general the previous 3 picks are quite solid, perhaps I got too pampered by the previous picks which were all quite good
BobboFitos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 10:38 PM   #8938
KLJ
20k hands/day
 
KLJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Topeka
Posts: 5,701
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

is anyone else curious how BJLTNYK's team works out? could be a better version of run TMC?
KLJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 10:40 PM   #8939
Jon34
grinder
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Hell's Kitchen
Posts: 686
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbach24 View Post
the first paragraph i completely agree with. i was trying to remember my feelings on houston, and the "20-2-2" thing totally summed it up. haha that's pretty funny i remember as a little kid being astonished that an nba player could have numbers like that.

but on the second paragraph, with clark's already stellar defense, it's not so much an issue.
He didn't post his team...who else does he have?
Jon34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 10:41 PM   #8940
tbach24
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
tbach24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: @tbach2
Posts: 11,476
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

pat ewing, larry nance, mookie blaylock
tbach24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 10:41 PM   #8941
kidcolin
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
kidcolin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: thank god for the hatchery
Posts: 108,763
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

+ a ****ty rookie?
kidcolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 10:42 PM   #8942
ClarkNasty
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
ClarkNasty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: 10x the man Clarkmeister is
Posts: 35,388
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Allan Houston is a *much* better 3pt shooter than Smith, which is a far bigger need for me than all around play right now. With Nance midrange and Ewing down low, all I need him to do is sit and shoot 3's all day long. Smith is a better player in an absolute sense, but for purposes of this league, he never once shot 3's at better than 35.1% from his 24 through his 29yo season. Houston's worst 3pt shooting season ever other than his rookie year is 38.1% and is a career 40.2% guy.
ClarkNasty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 10:44 PM   #8943
BobboFitos
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
BobboFitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 72,764
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

you need to tell houston to not try to score as much tho...

pj brown, interesting.
BobboFitos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 10:44 PM   #8944
Jon34
grinder
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Hell's Kitchen
Posts: 686
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbach24 View Post
pat ewing, larry nance, mookie blaylock
Thanks. Pretty good fit then, I'll admit. Though I still rather have a 37-38 3P% guy who do a couple other things than, well, Allan Houston.
Jon34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 10:44 PM   #8945
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by xorbie View Post
Miller is very good value pick here but I don't know about the fit with a team that already has Hornacek. I think you are stuck playing Horn at the PG spot now, because you need a SG who does something other than shoot well and not play defense.
+1
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 10:46 PM   #8946
D104
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
D104's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In a better place.
Posts: 18,272
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Houston + Ewing! REUNITED AND IT FEELS SO GOOD

I think Houston is fine for that team, but there are some players that would work better, IMO. That said, as Clark's team is constructed right now, another team with good midrange game from the 2/3 will fare very well against him.

D
D104 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 10:50 PM   #8947
nath
the second coming of the second coming
 
nath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Rust and Marty, a hundred years
Posts: 67,726
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobboFitos View Post
Dan Majerle
I assume Nath is going to be playing Dan at the 2, which leaves a fairly nonathletic core (including Boozer, who is a power house and for his size has alot of finesse, but is a terrible athlete) - as a preemptive warning, playing Dirk at the 3 epitomizes his athleticism deficiencies, he gets away with it at the 4 because he's better at every other thing, but quicker 3s are going to be too fast for him defensively.
Well, with the current lineup, yeah, he'd be the 2, but he can play the 3 for sure with some of our lineups. It all depends who I get the next few rounds.

Quote:
Career 13.8 PER, too. Best season was 17.8. That's pretty weak, even if PER tends to underrate 3pt specialists.
yeah, his PER drops at 27, when it seemed he started playing more at the 2 than 3 (the Hornacek for Barkley trade). He started getting fewer rebounds from the 2 (btw not sure what you mean by not having a rebound advantage) but shot more 3s-- so even though his PER went down his ORtg and OWS went up. I can use him at either the 2 or 3 and I think have him be effective in either role.

I feel like Majerle isn't elite at anything, really, but he's very good at several things, and those things are a good match for my team and its flexibility.

But I don't really know anything.
nath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 10:53 PM   #8948
nath
the second coming of the second coming
 
nath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Rust and Marty, a hundred years
Posts: 67,726
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

also i that my name is all over this thread and you still wrote "Nate"

nath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 10:56 PM   #8949
Franchise 60
deliciously angry
 
Franchise 60's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ferocious, isn't he?
Posts: 42,744
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Blah, I was hoping one of Smith, Houston, or Thunder would fall to me.
Franchise 60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 10:56 PM   #8950
D104
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
D104's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In a better place.
Posts: 18,272
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I was shocked at Majerle's relatively low 3pt%. I remembered him being straight cash homey from 3. I think it was his proclivity for super deep 30 ft plus 3s.
D104 is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:12 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive