Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Sporting Events Discussion centered around sporting events.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-29-2008, 04:54 PM   #8726
DontRaisePlz
old hand
 
DontRaisePlz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: mountain dew machine
Posts: 1,565
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobboFitos View Post
Asking if he has a bad attitude is similar to asking if yao ming is tall
lol fair enough it took me awhile to locate posts about the pick and like 10 people commented on it. I always remembered him associated with those problems just was never old enough to know any specific incidents.

A lot of people think the team needs shooting. Rice should be enough for some of the lighter defensive teams and a shooting specialist can be brought out from the rotation for a team that's sagging the middle. For now I love all the other skills that the team brings, it can trot out a lot of lineups if built correctly.
DontRaisePlz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 04:55 PM   #8727
kidcolin
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
kidcolin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: thank god for the hatchery
Posts: 108,763
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

the thing with grant is that even if you tell him to sit, it seems it'll take an inordinate amount of time to heal. It's not like that one ankle was the end all be all for him injury-wise.
kidcolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 04:58 PM   #8728
D104
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
D104's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In a better place.
Posts: 18,272
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

D104's Favorite 8 Teams after Round 3, in no particular order.

Not a power ranking, just teams that intrigue me.

1. Shaq/Eddie Jones/Coleman - Just a gigantic front line. I always liked Jones, I wish he could have been on those Laker title teams. And then gets shipped out of Miami the year before they win the title.

2. Bird/Vlade/Cassell - this team will **** with yo head.

3. Duncan/Penny/AK47 - The secret service can't guard this team.

4. Hakeem/Rice/Odom - I think this team fits very well together, possibly better than any other team.

5. Ewing/Nance/Mookie - All retired players FTW!

6. Amare/Price/Tayshaun - The Suns of this league.

7. Hill/Kemp/Sabonis - will lead league in alley-oops passed from the center position. The tallest guy is the worst finisher or this team, and he's pretty good, so that's nice.

8. Miller/Rodman/Artest - In an 82 game season, how many fights would this team be involved in? 10? 20?

D
D104 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 05:01 PM   #8729
KLJ
20k hands/day
 
KLJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Topeka
Posts: 5,701
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by D104 View Post
8. Miller/Rodman/Artest - In an 82 game season, how many fights would this team be involved in? 10? 20?
easily my favoritest
KLJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 05:03 PM   #8730
kidcolin
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
kidcolin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: thank god for the hatchery
Posts: 108,763
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I really hate that Coleman pick. I loved Shaq + Eddie so much and Coleman just seems like a throwaway. And I generally hate any picks for guys we know have major issues (alcohol/substance abuse, lack of effort, etc). He could have gotten similar/better value at another spot and had such a killer team. Now there's a huge question mark
kidcolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 05:03 PM   #8731
EPiPeN11
banned
 
EPiPeN11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: akon is the goat
Posts: 18,605
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by kidcolin View Post
I really hate that Coleman pick. I loved Shaq + Eddie so much and Coleman just seems like a throwaway. And I generally hate any picks for guys we know have major issues (alcohol/substance abuse, lack of effort, etc). He could have gotten similar/better value at another spot and had such a killer team. Now there's a huge question mark
+1, I don't hate it as much as you, but he def wasted a pick (especially on a trade up) and coulda gotten much better value.
EPiPeN11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 05:05 PM   #8732
tbach24
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
tbach24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: @tbach2
Posts: 11,476
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

yeah I just don't think that players are doomed. like penny/grant/others who suffered career enders are no more than 10% to suffer those injuries IMO and were just unlucky. i didn't want to let this linger, but seeing as this will, i'm willing to let it be, for now.

i wanna see some more picks, my next one will blow your miiiiiiiiiiind.
tbach24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 05:08 PM   #8733
kidcolin
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
kidcolin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: thank god for the hatchery
Posts: 108,763
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

so basically throw away injuries which everyone has been heavily considering? OK einstein
kidcolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 05:09 PM   #8734
Dudd
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Dudd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: pm karak w/ ffb questions
Posts: 54,252
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by kidcolin View Post
the thing with grant is that even if you tell him to sit, it seems it'll take an inordinate amount of time to heal. It's not like that one ankle was the end all be all for him injury-wise.
Well, most of his injuries followed straight from that bum ankle. He badly sprained it, played on it seven days later, then had to undergo four surgeries and a resulting infection to repair that ankle. The injury happened well past his 24 year old season, so it's not preexisting, and I think it's the very definition of a fluke injury. He came back full strength at 32 with a bum ankle, so he would already be on the downslope of his career at that point even without having his movement altered by a reconstructed ankle, it should be no surprise that he never played a full season after that. No one is arguing that he's probably to have John Stockton type durability in this league, but he almost has to be significantly healthier in this league, he had about the worst luck imaginable. If we are going to assume that he's going to miss multiple seasons, then **** it, we might as well just add up everyone's stats for each season and tally up scores that way.
Dudd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 05:11 PM   #8735
KLJ
20k hands/day
 
KLJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Topeka
Posts: 5,701
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

we're looking good in terms of picks: alex, shark doctor, lurchy and HSP are all on right now
KLJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 05:12 PM   #8736
Dudd
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Dudd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: pm karak w/ ffb questions
Posts: 54,252
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by kidcolin View Post
so basically throw away injuries which everyone has been heavily considering? OK einstein
The initial rules stated that players in our league are not going to have an injury history that mirrors their real life. Guys with chronic injuries will be more likely to be chronically injured than ironmen, but it's not a guarantee that Grant Hill will come down on the side of his foot in exactly the same way to give him the worst possible ankle sprain he could have gotten. Just because you can't read the rules doesn't mean that we can ignore them.
Dudd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 05:13 PM   #8737
Franchise 60
deliciously angry
 
Franchise 60's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ferocious, isn't he?
Posts: 42,744
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Wasn't the wording used by Assani that player who is injury plagued post age 24 should be considered injury prone for this?

I don't think having a bad ankle derail a career is really a freak injury. A scouting report showed he had a prior injury to that same ankle coming into the league.
Franchise 60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 05:13 PM   #8738
KLJ
20k hands/day
 
KLJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Topeka
Posts: 5,701
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dudd View Post
Well, most of his injuries followed straight from that bum ankle. He badly sprained it, played on it seven days later, then had to undergo four surgeries and a resulting infection to repair that ankle. The injury happened well past his 24 year old season, so it's not preexisting, and I think it's the very definition of a fluke injury. He came back full strength at 32 with a bum ankle, so he would already be on the downslope of his career at that point even without having his movement altered by a reconstructed ankle, it should be no surprise that he never played a full season after that. No one is arguing that he's probably to have John Stockton type durability in this league, but he almost has to be significantly healthier in this league, he had about the worst luck imaginable. If we are going to assume that he's going to miss multiple seasons, then **** it, we might as well just add up everyone's stats for each season and tally up scores that way.
the thing is, his ankle was already a pre-existing condition from before he turned 24. the first time he sprains it, he's out for 3 years. maybe this is on the further end of the spectrum, but then again, maybe playing 6 years without spraining his ankle with his playing style and usage is on the further end of the spectrum as well?

all speculation
KLJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 05:15 PM   #8739
.Alex.
Pooh-Bah
 
.Alex.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Playa del Carmen
Posts: 5,737
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Pick coming in next 10 minutes.
.Alex. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 05:17 PM   #8740
kidcolin
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
kidcolin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: thank god for the hatchery
Posts: 108,763
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

when you need 4 surgeries just because you played on a sprained ankle, you've either got the worst doctors ever and should pay a stupid tax for it, or you're injury prone.

The truth is, none of us are medical experts, none of us really no jack. The data we have is the best we can go on. Grant we know took 3 years and multiple surgeries to recover from a sprained ankle. Penny we know was not a gym rat, had a lanky frame, and bad knees. Coleman and Kemp we know were headcases that abused various substances and got fat and bumped.

I mean, why give free passes to injured dudes and not let Sabonis in the league at 24 and make him a top 10 pick? If we just want to speculate and have politics-style one sided arguments just open up the floodgates and let's do it.
kidcolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 05:17 PM   #8741
Franchise 60
deliciously angry
 
Franchise 60's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ferocious, isn't he?
Posts: 42,744
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Please explain to me how I have misinterpreted the rules in my argument with you.
Franchise 60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 05:18 PM   #8742
kidcolin
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
kidcolin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: thank god for the hatchery
Posts: 108,763
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dudd View Post
The initial rules stated that players in our league are not going to have an injury history that mirrors their real life. Guys with chronic injuries will be more likely to be chronically injured than ironmen, but it's not a guarantee that Grant Hill will come down on the side of his foot in exactly the same way to give him the worst possible ankle sprain he could have gotten. Just because you can't read the rules doesn't mean that we can ignore them.
so then the rules are gayballs and it's all speculation.

fwiw I LIKE tbach's team.. quite a bit. If anything, he's taken Grant's short shelf life and ran with the Kemp and Sabonis picks.
kidcolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 05:20 PM   #8743
Dudd
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Dudd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: pm karak w/ ffb questions
Posts: 54,252
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by KLJ View Post
the thing is, his ankle was already a pre-existing condition from before he turned 24. the first time he sprains it, he's out for 3 years. maybe this is on the further end of the spectrum, but then again, maybe playing 6 years without spraining his ankle with his playing style and usage is on the further end of the spectrum as well?

all speculation
Unless you have a specific reason to think that he had structual issues with his ankles that make this anything but a freak injury, then how is this preexisting? If spraining your ankle in the absolute worst possible way isn't a freak injury, then I'm going to have to agree with Assani that Petrovic is prone to an early death, because maybe him staying alive for 28 years in a run down communist state was on the further end of the spectrum.
Dudd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 05:21 PM   #8744
EPiPeN11
banned
 
EPiPeN11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: akon is the goat
Posts: 18,605
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dudd View Post
Unless you have a specific reason to think that he had structual issues with his ankles that make this anything but a freak injury, then how is this preexisting? If spraining your ankle in the absolute worst possible way isn't a freak injury, then I'm going to have to agree with Assani that Petrovic is prone to an early death, because maybe him staying alive for 28 years in a run down communist state was on the further end of the spectrum.
qft
EPiPeN11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 05:21 PM   #8745
kidcolin
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
kidcolin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: thank god for the hatchery
Posts: 108,763
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
A player who got injured in real life is not necessarily guaranteed to get injured in our hypothetical league. However, players who are/were injury prone in real life will also be injury prone in our hypothetical league and you should factor that into your drafting. A player who suffered a freak injury in real life is no more likely to suffer that freak injury in our league than any other player.
that's the rule. Grant Hill came into the league with an ankle issue. It got sprained (I wouldn't call ankle sprains "freak" in the NBA.. probably the most common injury). It took 3 years to heal. I think I got the rules right and retract my gayballs statement above.
kidcolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 05:23 PM   #8746
Franchise 60
deliciously angry
 
Franchise 60's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ferocious, isn't he?
Posts: 42,744
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I have used logic in all of my arguments with you, and numerous people have agreed with me. Even the person defending you pointed out how poor your arguments and points were.

Care to hit me with another super sweet poker analogy?
Franchise 60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 05:24 PM   #8747
Dudd
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Dudd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: pm karak w/ ffb questions
Posts: 54,252
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Here is the exact quote from the rule thread.

Quote:
A player who got injured in real life is not necessarily guaranteed to get injured in our hypothetical league. However, players who are/were injury prone in real life will also be injury prone in our hypothetical league and you should factor that into your drafting. A player who suffered a freak injury in real life is no more likely to suffer that freak injury in our league than any other player.
Now, I see you already quoted this and says that he had a preexisting ankle injury coming into the league. He played 33, 36, 26, and 34 games at Duke. Played 70, 80, 80, 81, and 74 games in the years leading up to his ankle injury. That's on the high end of the durability scale to that point, just because he sprained his ankle once or twice in the past doesn't make him probable to have a four year recovery, potential career ending injury happen to it. If we're treating it that way, then the phrase "freak injury" has zero meaning.

Last edited by Dudd; 05-29-2008 at 05:30 PM.
Dudd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 05:25 PM   #8748
Franchise 60
deliciously angry
 
Franchise 60's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ferocious, isn't he?
Posts: 42,744
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

The best part is that I tried to end this argument, and he is just unable to stop. He just loves attention, as evidenced throughout this entire thread.
Franchise 60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 05:26 PM   #8749
Franchise 60
deliciously angry
 
Franchise 60's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ferocious, isn't he?
Posts: 42,744
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Yea, and we don't think GH had a freak injury, hence he is injury prone.
Franchise 60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 05:27 PM   #8750
KLJ
20k hands/day
 
KLJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Topeka
Posts: 5,701
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dudd View Post
Unless you have a specific reason to think that he had structual issues with his ankles that make this anything but a freak injury, then how is this preexisting? If spraining your ankle in the absolute worst possible way isn't a freak injury, then I'm going to have to agree with Assani that Petrovic is prone to an early death, because maybe him staying alive for 28 years in a run down communist state was on the further end of the spectrum.
this is what i could find with limited searching (trying to find old information is pretty tough)

Hill injuring same left ankle at Duke (also found injuries to right knee, and left big toe. No clue if there were more.)

Scouting report written by Duke scout, Rob Clough.
States Hill "has had injury problems" under "Weaknesses" and "He's also been injury-prone at times in his career, although he was healthy this year." under his bio.
KLJ is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:56 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive