Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Sporting Events Discussion centered around sporting events.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-29-2008, 03:54 PM   #8676
Franchise 60
deliciously angry
 
Franchise 60's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ferocious, isn't he?
Posts: 42,744
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by EPiPeN11 View Post
Ya it's pretty amazing that someone would actually even think Lebron James would have a better year at age 29 than Dirk! What crazy people they are!!!
Just when I thought you couldn't make a worse analogy.

This is the most ridiculous comment ever and has absolutely zero to do with my points or posts. Keep trying though, you might make a correct point sooner or later on the basis of luck.
Franchise 60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 03:56 PM   #8677
EPiPeN11
banned
 
EPiPeN11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: akon is the goat
Posts: 18,605
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franchise 60 View Post
Just when I thought you couldn't make a worse analogy.
You are right, Lebron James is only 23, and only played 4 seasons in the league. I mean he could fall off or get injured. Even thinking that he would be better than Dirk at age 29 who has played 10 years in the league and has already PROVEN he can put up great stats at 29 is crazy talk.
EPiPeN11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 03:56 PM   #8678
KLJ
20k hands/day
 
KLJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Topeka
Posts: 5,701
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

does anyone else never understand ePeen's logic? this is about the 5th time for me. maybe i'm just ******ed
KLJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 03:56 PM   #8679
tbach24
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
tbach24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: @tbach2
Posts: 11,476
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I think that there is a fundamental problem in this argument. We don't apply the same principle of time to talent as we do to injuries.
tbach24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 03:57 PM   #8680
NozeCandy
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
NozeCandy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: lol goofybawler
Posts: 29,251
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Just a huge lol at the last few pages.
NozeCandy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 03:57 PM   #8681
EPiPeN11
banned
 
EPiPeN11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: akon is the goat
Posts: 18,605
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbach24 View Post
I think that there is a fundamental problem in this argument. We don't apply the same principle of time to talent as we do to injuries.
But Lebron COULD get hurt that's the point, he hasn't proven longevity. Dirk already PROVEN he could stay healthy.
EPiPeN11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 04:00 PM   #8682
tbach24
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
tbach24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: @tbach2
Posts: 11,476
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Exactly. Dude I'm on your side on this one. Just because a player stayed healthy or got hurt IRL doesn't mean he will in this one. But so far throughout this thing we've used the assumption that players are going to be mostly as good as they were IRL at any given age.
tbach24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 04:00 PM   #8683
Franchise 60
deliciously angry
 
Franchise 60's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ferocious, isn't he?
Posts: 42,744
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by EPiPeN11 View Post
You are right, Lebron James is only 23, and only played 4 seasons in the league. I mean he could fall off or get injured. Even thinking that he would be better than Dirk at age 29 who has played 10 years in the league and has already PROVEN he can put up great stats at 29 is crazy talk.
No one is arguing Dirk > Lebron. Stop.
Franchise 60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 04:01 PM   #8684
tbach24
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
tbach24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: @tbach2
Posts: 11,476
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

franchise, stop being so condescending. his point isn't that far off valid. just involves some lateral thinking.
tbach24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 04:01 PM   #8685
Franchise 60
deliciously angry
 
Franchise 60's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ferocious, isn't he?
Posts: 42,744
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbach24 View Post
Exactly. Dude I'm on your side on this one. Just because a player stayed healthy or got hurt IRL doesn't mean he will in this one. But so far throughout this thing we've used the assumption that players are going to be mostly as good as they were IRL at any given age.
But we have nothing to judge our criteria on but the players actual career, so yes we use that as a basis for judging durability.

It isn't perfect, but it is better than just pretending like durability and longevity don't exist.
Franchise 60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 04:01 PM   #8686
EPiPeN11
banned
 
EPiPeN11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: akon is the goat
Posts: 18,605
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbach24 View Post
Exactly. Dude I'm on your side on this one. Just because a player stayed healthy or got hurt IRL doesn't mean he will in this one. But so far throughout this thing we've used the assumption that players are going to be mostly as good as they were IRL at any given age.
ok sounds good
EPiPeN11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 04:02 PM   #8687
BiiiiigChips
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
BiiiiigChips's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: SOCAL
Posts: 7,465
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Reading these last few pages is making my head hurt.
BiiiiigChips is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 04:04 PM   #8688
Franchise 60
deliciously angry
 
Franchise 60's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ferocious, isn't he?
Posts: 42,744
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbach24 View Post
franchise, stop being so condescending. his point isn't that far off valid. just involves some lateral thinking.
When he stops making ridiculous analogies to twist what I'm saying than I'll stop being condescending.

If you can't see the difference in the JJ/DS argument and whatever the **** this Dirk/LBJ stuff is than I don't know what to say.
Franchise 60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 04:04 PM   #8689
AC-Cobra
Pooh-Bah
 
AC-Cobra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Giving a **** when it's not my turn
Posts: 5,207
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

ePeen,

You make good points and bad points. Unfortunately you choose to scream from the rooftops and never back down on any point regardless of how flawed your logic (if its flawed, it can be perfectly fine as well) is so the good points are getting lost within all the bad points and the screaming noise.

Calm down and make clear concise points and you may have more success.

FWIW I agree with you on the injuries point but dont understand why you're arguing, noone is saying JJ isnt durable. We have evidence he is and theyre agreeing. In a mutually exclusive point people are saying Detlef Schrempf had a ridiculously long and productive career and that makes him a great player. What exactly are you arguing?

On the Petrovic point, I sorta agreed with you when you were comparing him to guys who were picked, say 20-30 picks before him. Then you say hes pretty much Ray Allen and Reggie Miller level (admittedly you semi backtracked) and you lost me.

Edit: Just thought Id add, you're "stats are BS" statements probably arent winning over any fans either. Yeah theres more than stats, but that doesnt mean they have no worth. They have worth and so do non stats arguements.
AC-Cobra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 04:05 PM   #8690
BobboFitos
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
BobboFitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 72,764
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by EPiPeN11 View Post
I don't think he would be an amazing #1 guy, just like I don't think Ray Allen would be a #1 guy on a championship team. Of course the ideal role for Ray Allen or Petrovic would be as a #2 guy, but both of them COULD act as the role of a franchise type player on mediocare teams.
ok, this im buying.
BobboFitos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 04:06 PM   #8691
Franchise 60
deliciously angry
 
Franchise 60's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ferocious, isn't he?
Posts: 42,744
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
FWIW I agree with you on the injuries point but dont understand why you're arguing, noone is saying JJ isnt durable. We have evidence he is and theyre agreeing. In a mutually exclusive point people are saying Detlef Schrempf had a ridiculously long and productive career and that makes him a great player. What exactly are you arguing?
+10000000000

He is arguing that because JJ was more durable from 22-26 he is more likely to have the long and productive career that DS has already proven he is capable of. Basically being durable from 22-26 is a better sign that a player will be durable from 30-35 than a player being durable from 30-35.
Franchise 60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 04:07 PM   #8692
EPiPeN11
banned
 
EPiPeN11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: akon is the goat
Posts: 18,605
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by AC-Cobra View Post
ePeen,

You make good points and bad points. Unfortunately you choose to scream from the rooftops and never back down on any point regardless of how flawed your logic (if its flawed, it can be perfectly fine as well) is so the good points are getting lost within all the bad points and the screaming noise.

Calm down and make clear concise points and you may have more success.

FWIW I agree with you on the injuries point but dont understand why you're arguing, noone is saying JJ isnt durable. We have evidence he is and theyre agreeing. In a mutually exclusive point people are saying Detlef Schrempf had a ridiculously long and productive career and that makes him a great player. What exactly are you arguing?

On the Petrovic point, I sorta agreed with you when you were comparing him to guys who were picked, say 20-30 picks before him. Then you say hes pretty much Ray Allen and Reggie Miller level (admittedly you semi backtracked) and you lost me.
I'm arguing that JJ in my opinion has a less chance to get hurt than Shrempf does in our make believe league, although both have a low injury risk.

I don't think there is a huge difference between Petrovic and Ray Allen/Reggie Miller, I think both Allen/Miller are better players, but I don't think it's a huge gap at all.
EPiPeN11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 04:08 PM   #8693
tbach24
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
tbach24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: @tbach2
Posts: 11,476
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

k argument settled. ice cream anyone?
tbach24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 04:08 PM   #8694
EPiPeN11
banned
 
EPiPeN11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: akon is the goat
Posts: 18,605
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbach24 View Post
k argument settled. ice cream anyone?
yes please
EPiPeN11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 04:10 PM   #8695
Franchise 60
deliciously angry
 
Franchise 60's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ferocious, isn't he?
Posts: 42,744
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I had so much ice cream last night when I watched Jaws.
Franchise 60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 04:11 PM   #8696
EPiPeN11
banned
 
EPiPeN11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: akon is the goat
Posts: 18,605
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by AC-Cobra View Post
Edit: Just thought Id add, you're "stats are BS" statements probably arent winning over any fans either. Yeah theres more than stats, but that doesnt mean they have no worth. They have worth and so do non stats arguements.
I agree with this, infact this is the point i'm trying to make. You will see me using stats in a bunch of my arguments too, I just realize they aren't everything, and a lot of times I feel like people on this board feel like stats ARE everything.
EPiPeN11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 04:11 PM   #8697
BobboFitos
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
BobboFitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 72,764
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

people can evaluate things however they want, but if i see a guy play 10+ years and never missed more than 10 games a season, and had a few "82s" scattered in there, i'm assuming he's not injury prone. likewise, if he plays a shorter career than that, and has missed ~40 more than once in a season, i'm assuming he's very injury prone. people in the middle i decide based on the type of injury.
BobboFitos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 04:12 PM   #8698
tbach24
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
tbach24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: @tbach2
Posts: 11,476
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

cool. make sure you factor that into your voting!
tbach24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 04:15 PM   #8699
Franchise 60
deliciously angry
 
Franchise 60's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ferocious, isn't he?
Posts: 42,744
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

The whole basis of my argument is to give credit to Detlef for his longevity. By doing so I am not taking value away from JJ. But by saying JJ should be given the same longevity as Detlef is taking away the +points for DS's longevity. I don't think its a crazy point, and its not meant to take away from JJ's value, just to add to DS's.

I'm done arguing about it though now, I feel like my point has been made multiple times.
Franchise 60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 04:15 PM   #8700
AC-Cobra
Pooh-Bah
 
AC-Cobra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Giving a **** when it's not my turn
Posts: 5,207
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by EPiPeN11 View Post
I'm arguing that JJ in my opinion has a less chance to get hurt than Shrempf does in our make believe league, although both have a low injury risk.
Ok Im not going to agree with you there but its such a negligible point its unreal.

Schrempf is clearly durable and had some great longetivity. Joe Johnson is clearly durable, we have no evidence as to whether he can maintain his stats unusually long such as Schrempf did but its certainly possible.

Both are clearly durable players.
AC-Cobra is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive