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Old 05-29-2008, 02:53 PM   #8601
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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It doesn't have to be a huge injury, when players are on the downside of their career it becomes more difficult for them to be super productive. Its common sense. What the **** are you arguing? That lots of players don't decline after age 30 unless they have a major injury? How about that they are getting old?
30 years old is not old in the NBA, 35 years old is. If 30 years is old, KG, Pierce, Billups etc. are old, they aren't old they are in their freakin prime.
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Old 05-29-2008, 02:53 PM   #8602
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Um he was, and he was a franchise guy for the Nets, he completly turned that team around...
wat?
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Old 05-29-2008, 02:55 PM   #8603
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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By what measurnig stick?

Your acting like Petrovic was some sick talent. His best year was 22/2.7r/3.5a/1.3spg 51% from the field and 45% from 3. That's a pretty damn good year at 28 years old. He had 1 more year about equally good. If he could extend this out even then I'm not sure how much better or worse he is than Detlef.

Detlef averaged 17/9.6/5 during a 3 year stretch with indy including around 52% from the field and 35% from 3 point land. Also a TS% around 61.5% and a 19 PER. Detlef was really, really good and in his prime he was a high rebound and high assist guy for his position.
Petrovic WAS some sick talent, he is arguably the best shooter IN NBA HISTORY.

Reggie Miller is the last person who would admit someone was a better shooter than him and a person who obv knows a ton about shooting. He went on record like a week ago on TNT as saying he was the 2nd best shooter of all time. Who was the first? Was it Larry Bird? No. IT WAS DRAZEN PETROVIC.

And freakin 51% and 45% from 3 is RIDICULOUS from a guard who scores 20+ ppg, it's not "just pretty damn good". He also was held out of playing time in Portland, where he could have probably put up similar (maybe slightly worse) numbers, and had no signs of slowing down either, he would have at least been able to put up similar numbers until like 30-31 had he not died.
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Old 05-29-2008, 02:56 PM   #8604
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Ray also is a ball dominant guy whereas the other guys play off the ball. He doesn't really need anyone to set him up, yet he still has played at a sickly efficient rate his entire career.
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Old 05-29-2008, 02:57 PM   #8605
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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30 years old is not old in the NBA, 35 years old is. If 30 years is old, KG, Pierce, Billups etc. are old, they aren't old they are in their freakin prime.
Haha its the tail end of their prime. What happens after the tail end of a prime? A decline. 30 was just used as a # where after someone gets into their 30s they start to decline. Name 3 players who are 30 and still good doesn't prove anything.

Let me put it this way. You take two guys, with exactly the same numbers. One if 26, and one is retired after playing until his mid 30s. You would argue that they both have the same value, because you can't say that the 26 year old won't have the same longevity. I'm saying you they don't have the same value because we don't know either way.

Your arguments basically make longevity null and void, and make every 25 year old a future first ballot HOF'r.
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Old 05-29-2008, 02:57 PM   #8606
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

petrovic a franchise guys for the nets?

...

wat?
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Old 05-29-2008, 02:58 PM   #8607
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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wat?
On January 23, 1991, Petrović became a member of the New Jersey Nets. Petrović was now a part of a team that featured two of the best young prospects in the league, Kenny Anderson and Derrick Coleman, but a team that hadn't reached the playoffs since 1986. Determined to not let the Portland episode repeat, he immediately responded to the increased playing time (20.5 minutes per game), holding a scoring average of 12.6 points per game in 43 games with the Nets. His first complete season with the Nets was truly stellar: not missing a single game, Petro, as the Americans had dubbed him, averaged 20.6 points in 36.9 minutes on the floor, nearly leading all NBA guards in field goal percentage (51%); he established himself as the team leader and was named team MVP. More significantly, his success translated into team success, as the Nets recorded 14 more wins than the season before and made the playoffs.For his encore, in 1992-1993 season Petrović increased his scoring average (22.3, 11th best that season) and repeated the excellent three-point field goal percentage from the previous season (45%), again nearly leading all guards in field goal percentage (52%). American media honored him with a selection to the All-NBA 3rd Team. However, a failure to receive an invitation to the 1993 All-Star game came as a great disappointment to Petrović; among the top 13 scorers in the NBA that season, he was the only one not invited.[16][17]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drazen_Petrovic

wat?
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Old 05-29-2008, 02:59 PM   #8608
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

fwiw, the last 10 or so picks of the first round + the first 10 or so picks of the 2nd round, most of those guys aren't much better than one another, it just was who you want to build around. still, to put petrovic. in the same sentence as ray allen is a joke.
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Old 05-29-2008, 02:59 PM   #8609
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Haha its the tail end of their prime. What happens after the tail end of a prime? A decline. 30 was just used as a # where after someone gets into their 30s they start to decline. Name 3 players who are 30 and still good doesn't prove anything.

Let me put it this way. You take two guys, with exactly the same numbers. One if 26, and one is retired after playing until his mid 30s. You would argue that they both have the same value, because you can't say that the 26 year old won't have the same longevity. I'm saying you they don't have the same value because we don't know either way.

Your arguments basically make longevity null and void, and make every 25 year old a future first ballot HOF'r.
Regardless you are talking about a few years max, as most people don't slow down significantly til like 33-35. If you really think Schrempf producing 2 or so extra productive years makes him so much more valueable, i'd say u are pretty crazy.
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Old 05-29-2008, 03:01 PM   #8610
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Ray also is a ball dominant guy whereas the other guys play off the ball. He doesn't really need anyone to set him up, yet he still has played at a sickly efficient rate his entire career.
I was saying in the video thread.. his whole "dribble up nonchalant, out of nowhere spring a 3 in your eye" routine is amongst my favorite things ever in the NBA. It's just so sick.
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Old 05-29-2008, 03:02 PM   #8611
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

pip,

never lead the team in usage.
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Old 05-29-2008, 03:02 PM   #8612
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Regardless you are talking about a few years max, as most people don't slow down significantly til like 33-35. If you really think Schrempf producing 2 or so extra productive years makes him so much more valueable, i'd say u are pretty crazy.
Most people don't slow down until 33-35? LOL

Especially now, with players leaving college early (or not attending college at all), they have more NBA years on their bodies and start to break down earlier.
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Old 05-29-2008, 03:03 PM   #8613
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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pip,

never lead the team in usage.
OMG USAGE!!!!!!

Put Petrovic on a good team of role players, where he was the best player on the team, and he could easily be a franchise player.
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Old 05-29-2008, 03:04 PM   #8614
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I was saying in the video thread.. his whole "dribble up nonchalant, out of nowhere spring a 3 in your eye" routine is amongst my favorite things ever in the NBA. It's just so sick.
Yeah that is the best... really opens up your driving too.

[edit] I don't want to sound like some guys on this forum, but I wanted to mention that it's a specialty of the guy I just drafted.

[edit2] My other favorite play is watching the "little guy who never dunks" drive and throw it down amongst the trees. That always pumps me up.
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Old 05-29-2008, 03:04 PM   #8615
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Regardless you are talking about a few years max, as most people don't slow down significantly til like 33-35. If you really think Schrempf producing 2 or so extra productive years makes him so much more valueable, i'd say u are pretty crazy.
And a few years are pretty valuable if one guy is playing at a high level, and one guy isn't. So yea, I must be crazy then for wanting 3 extra years out of my guy.

Look I'm not saying that Detlef will play the same exact length this time around, I'm just saying he should be given more credit for doing so than someone who is 26 years old. Thats all.

I'm not trying to take value away from JJ, just give earned value to DS.
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Old 05-29-2008, 03:04 PM   #8616
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Most people don't slow down until 33-35? LOL

Especially now, with players leaving college early (or not attending college at all), they have more NBA years on their bodies and start to break down earlier.
Yes MOST don't slow down SIGNIFICANTLY (hence they slow down a little, but not by a lot at all), obv the High Schoolers do more than college players do but it's not by much and is a very limited sample, especially since a lot of the high schoolers don't play many minutes right away.
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Old 05-29-2008, 03:06 PM   #8617
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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OMG USAGE!!!!!!

Put Petrovic on a good team of role players, where he was the best player on the team, and he could easily be a franchise player.
Sick analysis.
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Old 05-29-2008, 03:06 PM   #8618
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

There are so many dominant 34 year olds in the NBA right now.
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Old 05-29-2008, 03:06 PM   #8619
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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And a few years are pretty valuable if one guy is playing at a high level, and one guy isn't. So yea, I must be crazy then for wanting 3 extra years out of my guy.

Look I'm not saying that Detlef will play the same exact length this time around, I'm just saying he should be given more credit for doing so than someone who is 26 years old. Thats all.

I'm not trying to take value away from JJ, just give earned value to DS.
Of course it's valueable, but it's not insane value or anything.

That's fine if you want to give Detlef slightly more credit, but don't act like Joe Johnson has a much higher chance of falling off before age 32-33 than Detlef did, infact i'd argue that Detlef has a higher chance based on that Johnson is more durable than Detlef.
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Old 05-29-2008, 03:06 PM   #8620
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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OMG USAGE!!!!!!

Put Petrovic on a good team of role players, where he was the best player on the team, and he could easily be a franchise player.
That team had Derrick Coleman. Petrovic was the 2nd best player.
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Old 05-29-2008, 03:07 PM   #8621
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Sick analysis.
I noticed u ignored this, so i'll say it again.

Petrovic WAS some sick talent, he is arguably the best shooter IN NBA HISTORY.

Reggie Miller is the last person who would admit someone was a better shooter than him and a person who obv knows a ton about shooting. He went on record like a week ago on TNT as saying he was the 2nd best shooter of all time. Who was the first? Was it Larry Bird? No. IT WAS DRAZEN PETROVIC.

And freakin 51% and 45% from 3 is RIDICULOUS from a guard who scores 20+ ppg, it's not "just pretty damn good". He also was held out of playing time in Portland, where he could have probably put up similar (maybe slightly worse) numbers, and had no signs of slowing down either, he would have at least been able to put up similar numbers until like 30-31 had he not died.
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Old 05-29-2008, 03:08 PM   #8622
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Put Petrovic on a good team of role players, where he was the best player on the team, and he could easily be a franchise player.
actually, it's usually easiest to be a franchise guy on a **** team, like the Nets, yet Derrick Coleman still got the ball more. Dude was a spot up shooter.. that's it. A hell of a good one, no doubt, maybe the best (for 2 years), but that's his game. He isn't the least bit comparable to guys like Reggie, Ray, even Redd in terms of value.
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Old 05-29-2008, 03:09 PM   #8623
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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That team had Derrick Coleman. Petrovic was the 2nd best player.
Yes but not by much if any... so put someone slightly worse than Petrovic on the team and then OMG Petrovic is a franchise guy!

I'll make an exagerated point and say that Amare isn't a franchise guy cause he has Steve Nash. Or that Penny wasn't a franchise guy cause he had Shaq.
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Old 05-29-2008, 03:09 PM   #8624
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Of course it's valueable, but it's not insane value or anything.

That's fine if you want to give Detlef slightly more credit, but don't act like Joe Johnson has a much higher chance of falling off before age 32-33 than Detlef did, infact i'd argue that Detlef has a higher chance based on that Johnson is more durable than Detlef.
So JJ has a better chance of doing something he hasn't done than someone who already did it?
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Old 05-29-2008, 03:10 PM   #8625
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I noticed u ignored this, so i'll say it again.

Petrovic WAS some sick talent, he is arguably the best shooter IN NBA HISTORY.

Reggie Miller is the last person who would admit someone was a better shooter than him and a person who obv knows a ton about shooting. He went on record like a week ago on TNT as saying he was the 2nd best shooter of all time. Who was the first? Was it Larry Bird? No. IT WAS DRAZEN PETROVIC.

And freakin 51% and 45% from 3 is RIDICULOUS from a guard who scores 20+ ppg, it's not "just pretty damn good". He also was held out of playing time in Portland, where he could have probably put up similar (maybe slightly worse) numbers, and had no signs of slowing down either, he would have at least been able to put up similar numbers until like 30-31 had he not died.

I read it. My point is you put any player and you surround him with a bunch of players who are worse than him of course he becomes a franchise player.

I guess you made that point, but yeah, that's a really stupid point whoever made it earlier.
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