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Old 05-28-2008, 04:05 PM   #8351
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

The Shaq free throw thing is way overblown. League average points per possession is somewhere around 1-1.1 points per possession, depending on era, and Shaq is 52% for his career from the line. So, sending him to the line gets you around 1.04 points per possession without factoring any offensive rebounds off a missed second free throw. Obviously you'd prefer a better shooter at the line, but with the rules against off the ball fouling in the final two minutes, most hack a shaq strategies will come early enough in the game that you don't lose much in expectation from shaq being fouled.
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Old 05-28-2008, 04:11 PM   #8352
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I disagree. I think you provide the argument yourself. Either you turn Shaq into an average player, or he's not allowed to touch the ball (because otherwise you foul him and turn him into an average player).
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Old 05-28-2008, 04:17 PM   #8353
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Most hack a shaqing is done in the half court though, and I'd have to imagine that if you removed transition scoring, the overall points per possession would drop. Really, it's not that big a deal.
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Old 05-28-2008, 04:20 PM   #8354
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Anyone in the next few picks interested in trading down PM me.
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Old 05-28-2008, 05:50 PM   #8355
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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going to bed now. Will check when I wake up and pick then if it gets to me.
Just got up, and making sure....its KC's pick and not mine right now, right? IF so, gonna take my time reading through the thread and catching up. If not, of course I'll pick asap.
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Old 05-28-2008, 05:51 PM   #8356
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

yeah it's my pick. I'm being a massive dick and flip flopping like crazy on this decision.
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Old 05-28-2008, 05:57 PM   #8357
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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yeah it's my pick. I'm being a massive dick and flip flopping like crazy on this decision.
sleep on it, imo. you never know what might occur to you. after all, it worked with HSP. didn't he later pick marbury? should have slept on that one

although not being ready is somewhat tilt inducing.
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Old 05-28-2008, 05:59 PM   #8358
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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um that how anything on that wikki page describes how petrovic is a lot more likley to get into a car crash than any other NBA player.
Ugh, I thought we agreed to disagree here, lol. Overall I love the pick, so I'm not ragging on him. Hes just car crash prone, thats all.
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Old 05-28-2008, 06:00 PM   #8359
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I don't watch Okafor play (don't watch Bobcat games ldo) but I have heard a few times that his defense isn't nearly as good as it was in college and that his D in the NBA is overrated. Anyone who has seen him play a decent amount in the NBA that can shed some light on this?
I think what people mean by that is that he was an absolute beast defender in college and isn't that in the NBA. However, hes still a definite above average defender.
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Old 05-28-2008, 06:01 PM   #8360
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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although not being ready is somewhat tilt inducing.
jobs, playoffs, other priorities, etc. I'm getting there.
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Old 05-28-2008, 06:02 PM   #8361
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Okafor's bad at defense like Rashard Lewis is bad on offense...basically he's just not the best in the league at it.
If that's your definition of bad I agree. If you mean kind of bad, like average or worse, you're wrong.
The knock on Okafor(besides injury ldo) is that people expected him to be an incredible force on the defensive end (On a Duncan/Olajuwon/Mutombo level). In reality he has great defensive instincts but he's not bi and athletic enough to be dominant in the nba like he was in college. Still he remains a very solid defensive player.
Or I guess I could've just typed "+1" here, especially about the part about him not being bi.
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Old 05-28-2008, 06:05 PM   #8362
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Shareef! I was wondering when he'd go. I half-considered him for my team.
decent value here imo.
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Old 05-28-2008, 06:06 PM   #8363
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

just got back from pickup. i hope kc and AF get their picks out before the celts game.
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Old 05-28-2008, 06:06 PM   #8364
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I can't imagine having to guard LBJ with competent people around him.
+1
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Old 05-28-2008, 06:06 PM   #8365
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Guys my pick is gonna take some time probably. Tough decisions. Might be reaching hard.
Please don't take my guy.
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Old 05-28-2008, 06:07 PM   #8366
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

kc, quit being gayballs and pick someone.
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Old 05-28-2008, 06:09 PM   #8367
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by D104 View Post
I notice others doing this, mostly becuase I do it as well. On teams that are a touch undersized, I think: "but who will guard a 27 year old Shaq?"

Answer: Nobody can guard Shaq in his prime. Just go look at the 2000-2001 playoffs against the Spurs. He averaged like 30/12 against TD and D-Rob.

Somehow when judging matchups, whoever is going against Shaq's team has to make a convincing argument that their players 1 through 4 are that much better because you're losing @ the 5. Big time.

/obviousrant


D

Overall I very much agree with this point, and I think its foolish to even worry about trying to stop Shaq(or many of the top few picks). However, I would like point out their stats in head to head matchups:


Shaq: 23.2 points, 11.2 rebounds, 1.9 assists, 0.4 steals, 2.9 blocks, 3.1 turnovers, 3.8 fouls

Duncan: 22.0 points, 12.1 rebounds, 2.6 assists, 0.7 steals, 1.4 blocks, 2.5 turnovers, 3.3 fouls
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Old 05-28-2008, 06:11 PM   #8368
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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LBJ's unstoppableness is as imposing as Shaq's IMO. Shaq's always had a Penny/Kobe/Wade, LBJ has Zydrunas Ilgauskas, who, as good as he is, is not the right fit alongside LBJ IMO. Now that we've put LBJ with a great shooter and two competent big men, you can't completely focus your defense on him. There's no way to stop him unless he's having an off shooting night.

Doesn't mean LBJ > Shaq, but I think those two are gonna be the hardest two to draw up a gameplan for (alongside MJ obviously).
Agree with you completely, but isn't it a bit "captain obvious" to state that the top 3 picks in the entire draft are the hardest to gameplan for?
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Old 05-28-2008, 06:14 PM   #8369
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by kidcolin View Post
tbach,

dominant shaq was more efficient. He absolutely commanded a double team. LBJ is dominant, sure, but he's less efficient and you can single cover him and bait him into ****ty jump shots. Peak shaq had no ****ty shots. He was either dunking on your face or dropping in a nice little baby hook. If you doubled it's an open look or he's immediately pushing down a foot deeper and reseting the post.

It's really not close imo.
I agree with you from a pure scoring standpoint, but Lebron also creates a ton for his teamates, and thats in real life with bad teamates. With quality teamates, his assist numbers should be pretty sick to go along with his scoring. And I don't think he'll take nearly as many ****ty jump shots when he has better teamates around him.
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Old 05-28-2008, 06:16 PM   #8370
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by kidcolin View Post
i'm having a really hard time with this pick. 3 or so guys I want but are probably reaches, 2 or 3 guys in the BPA discussion but don't exactly fit my team the way I like. Willing to entertain gayball trading. Must have a pick this round, preferably in the next 10 or so slots.

I'm going to lunch now will check PMs when I get back. If no offers are there or I reject them, expect a pick within a couple hours.
Jesus, you've been thinking this long???

If you pick my guy, I"d trade with you and give you a decent value later on(since I'm assuming due to your hesitation that you value many players similarly here).
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Old 05-28-2008, 06:18 PM   #8371
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Dudd View Post
Most hack a shaqing is done in the half court though, and I'd have to imagine that if you removed transition scoring, the overall points per possession would drop. Really, it's not that big a deal.
very good point imo.
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Old 05-28-2008, 06:19 PM   #8372
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Oh nevermind, theres no way KC takes my guy. I hadn't looked at his team when I said that. I'm going to get my writeup ready.
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Old 05-28-2008, 06:23 PM   #8373
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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HTF does Josh Smith kill fast breaks? Hes great at finishing in the open court.
If I could invent a "don't dribble, just finish" pill I would. The dunking isn't the problem, it's the 90 feet he has to cover before jumping.
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Old 05-28-2008, 06:28 PM   #8374
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Nicholasp27 View Post
ruff, u have ur summary wrong

knight wasn't in atlanta when we got SAR, babcock was

knight was actually in vancouver and traded SAR for Gasol

he later came to atlanta and blew up the team (which was going nowhere fast), getting josh smith for sar+theo

Ya your right it was Babcock who was the super dumbass after Stan Kasten.
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Old 05-28-2008, 06:28 PM   #8375
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
Overall I very much agree with this point, and I think its foolish to even worry about trying to stop Shaq(or many of the top few picks). However, I would like point out their stats in head to head matchups:


Shaq: 23.2 points, 11.2 rebounds, 1.9 assists, 0.4 steals, 2.9 blocks, 3.1 turnovers, 3.8 fouls

Duncan: 22.0 points, 12.1 rebounds, 2.6 assists, 0.7 steals, 1.4 blocks, 2.5 turnovers, 3.3 fouls
You are glossing over the fact Shaq held Dunc to 44% FG%, whereas Dunc "held" Shaq to 55% FG%. Huge disparity there. But I would agree the two def. nearly cancel each other out.
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