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Old 05-28-2008, 01:34 PM   #8326
kidcolin
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

He's a talented scorer, good rebounder, relatively weak defender, but most of my watching was from Kings game when he was a little past his prime.
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Old 05-28-2008, 01:40 PM   #8327
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

The big downside to Shareef is that you miss out on some of his best seasons because of the 24 rule. That said, I think he's the best available forward here, and Top 5 in BPA.
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Old 05-28-2008, 01:49 PM   #8328
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by kidcolin View Post
james,

Here's some data from 82games.
Bobcats: http://www.82games.com/0708/0708CHA.HTM
Okafor on/off court: http://www.82games.com/0708/07CHA14D.HTM
Okafor by position: http://www.82games.com/0708/07CHA14C.HTM

Now, I'm not sold on Roland Rating (it's a more advanced +/- metric), but general trends are easy to follow, and being at even 0 is not very good for a guy with high hopes.

The on/off court data shows a couple interesting things. -1 on defense is OK. The team gives up a slightly better shooting % when he's on the floor.

The by position data is probably the best thing to look at. Okafor splits time as a PF and C, mainly used as a C on that squad. And that's where we see the real problems. Focusing on the C position, we see he's letting his opponent shoot 52% eFG% (FG% adjusted for 3s). That's pretty high. His opponent's PER is 20 at the C spot, which is very high. Whether it's technique or just not having the body for it, he's getting torched in the middle.

Of course, as a disclaimer, there could easily be a team factor to this. They're a bad defensive team. It's easier for the opposing center to score if your lane is constantly penetrated by guards. So I'll concede that.

His #s do fare a good deal better at the PF spot, and many have suspected he's not cut out for the center role in this league. Horace Grant is largely in the same role.. a natural PF who can fill the C role if you need him to, but he's better at the 4. So I'm not sold on both manning up an undersized line when some teams are sporting lines of KG/Lambs and Ewing/Nance.
Team factor is huge here, but you do have a point.
However I took him mainly for his help defense, Grant is guarding the other team best player, and even undersized he'll do a good job. This lines are the very best frontcourts of the draft, so it's natural that I struggle against them. (and with Horace I might not give up too much, I much scared by the prospect of facing shaq).
The real question is are you sold on playing anyona at Sf when the opposingteam has Lebron James?
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Old 05-28-2008, 01:58 PM   #8329
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I like the Shareef pick. The team is not that solid defensively, but will put up lots of points.
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Old 05-28-2008, 01:58 PM   #8330
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I can't imagine having to guard LBJ with competent people around him.
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Old 05-28-2008, 02:21 PM   #8331
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I notice others doing this, mostly becuase I do it as well. On teams that are a touch undersized, I think: "but who will guard a 27 year old Shaq?"

Answer: Nobody can guard Shaq in his prime. Just go look at the 2000-2001 playoffs against the Spurs. He averaged like 30/12 against TD and D-Rob.

Somehow when judging matchups, whoever is going against Shaq's team has to make a convincing argument that their players 1 through 4 are that much better because you're losing @ the 5. Big time.

/obviousrant


D
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Old 05-28-2008, 03:15 PM   #8332
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

ruff, u have ur summary wrong

knight wasn't in atlanta when we got SAR, babcock was

knight was actually in vancouver and traded SAR for Gasol

he later came to atlanta and blew up the team (which was going nowhere fast), getting josh smith for sar+theo
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Old 05-28-2008, 03:22 PM   #8333
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

LBJ's unstoppableness is as imposing as Shaq's IMO. Shaq's always had a Penny/Kobe/Wade, LBJ has Zydrunas Ilgauskas, who, as good as he is, is not the right fit alongside LBJ IMO. Now that we've put LBJ with a great shooter and two competent big men, you can't completely focus your defense on him. There's no way to stop him unless he's having an off shooting night.

Doesn't mean LBJ > Shaq, but I think those two are gonna be the hardest two to draw up a gameplan for (alongside MJ obviously).
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Old 05-28-2008, 03:27 PM   #8334
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

ur wrong
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Old 05-28-2008, 03:28 PM   #8335
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

then you probably know something that NBA coaches haven't really figured out?

edit- yeah the Spurs and Celtics did a good job, but the Cavs right now suck. I wait in horror for when LBJ gets some decent talent around him and kills the league.
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Old 05-28-2008, 03:30 PM   #8336
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Tbach,

Agreed about LBJ's dominance, too different from Shaq to compare, obv. Should that team even bother with a point guard? I might just stick another shooter on that team and call it a day.

D

PS. Feel free to make more OC references, yo.
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Old 05-28-2008, 03:33 PM   #8337
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Heh yeah you might not even really need one. He was pushing really hard for JKidd though so that makes me feel like he'd prefer not having to be the ball handler 24/7.
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Old 05-28-2008, 03:35 PM   #8338
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

tbach,

dominant shaq was more efficient. He absolutely commanded a double team. LBJ is dominant, sure, but he's less efficient and you can single cover him and bait him into ****ty jump shots. Peak shaq had no ****ty shots. He was either dunking on your face or dropping in a nice little baby hook. If you doubled it's an open look or he's immediately pushing down a foot deeper and reseting the post.

It's really not close imo.
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Old 05-28-2008, 03:37 PM   #8339
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by kidcolin View Post
tbach,

dominant shaq was more efficient. He absolutely commanded a double team. LBJ is dominant, sure, but he's less efficient and you can single cover him and bait him into ****ty jump shots. Peak shaq had no ****ty shots. He was either dunking on your face or dropping in a nice little baby hook. If you doubled it's an open look or he's immediately pushing down a foot deeper and reseting the post.

It's really not close imo.
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Old 05-28-2008, 03:38 PM   #8340
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

IMO Lebron is best used as a PG in this format.
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Old 05-28-2008, 03:42 PM   #8341
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by EPiPeN11 View Post
I don't watch Okafor play (don't watch Bobcat games ldo) but I have heard a few times that his defense isn't nearly as good as it was in college and that his D in the NBA is overrated. Anyone who has seen him play a decent amount in the NBA that can shed some light on this?
this is true, but in college he was elite, in NBA, he's a step above avg. people were expecting KG type defense, and that hasn't happened, but horizon's team will have an above avg interior defense.

his perimeter defense is shaky tho, bc lbj is above avg sometimes, drazen certainly is not.
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Old 05-28-2008, 03:46 PM   #8342
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

i would personally use LBJ as a point forward, and not get a pass first PG. but it's up to the team owner obv.

shaq's obvious weakness is FTs. not that LBJ is good at those, either, but the disparity is pretty huge.
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Old 05-28-2008, 03:47 PM   #8343
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

i'm having a really hard time with this pick. 3 or so guys I want but are probably reaches, 2 or 3 guys in the BPA discussion but don't exactly fit my team the way I like. Willing to entertain gayball trading. Must have a pick this round, preferably in the next 10 or so slots.

I'm going to lunch now will check PMs when I get back. If no offers are there or I reject them, expect a pick within a couple hours.
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Old 05-28-2008, 03:49 PM   #8344
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

fwiw even though Shaq's FTs suck huge balls there's a benefit to a guy who gets sent to the line 4-5 times plus and1s plus fouls before the shot. Getting in the penalty, foul trouble, that sort of thing.
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Old 05-28-2008, 03:52 PM   #8345
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Well if you have Shaq and you're in the penalty at the end of the 4th quarter, you're left with two options. 1) Shaq shoots every single free throw because of hack-a-Shaq. 2) Shaq's not on the floor and your offense is not nearly as effective.
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Old 05-28-2008, 03:52 PM   #8346
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I mean I'm not arguing that Shaq sucks, far from it. But there's a reason Bobbo debated Shaq vs. LBJ and it's that they're both disgusting, filthy, gross, dirty little piggies.
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Old 05-28-2008, 03:56 PM   #8347
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by kidcolin View Post
tbach,

dominant shaq was more efficient. He absolutely commanded a double team. LBJ is dominant, sure, but he's less efficient and you can triple cover him and bait him into ****ty jump shots. Peak shaq had no ****ty shots. He was either dunking on your face or dropping in a nice little baby hook. If you doubled it's an open look or he's immediately pushing down a foot deeper and reseting the post.

It's really not close imo.
FYP.

Seriously though, if you single cover him, and does not have the big ready to help, he's getting to the line every time.
But yeah, prime Shaq was more dominant than Lebron, but who knows, maybe we haven't see prime Bron with the post dominance and the killer shot.
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Old 05-28-2008, 03:58 PM   #8348
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by kidcolin View Post
i'm having a really hard time with this pick. 3 or so guys I want but are probably reaches, 2 or 3 guys in the BPA discussion but don't exactly fit my team the way I like. Willing to entertain gayball trading. Must have a pick this round, preferably in the next 10 or so slots.

I'm going to lunch now will check PMs when I get back. If no offers are there or I reject them, expect a pick within a couple hours.
Right now it's becoming hard to pick, becxause the best players will rarely fIt your team needs.

Last edited by horizon; 05-28-2008 at 04:16 PM.
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Old 05-28-2008, 03:59 PM   #8349
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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i would personally use LBJ as a point forward, and not get a pass first PG. but it's up to the team owner obv.
Ideally, I'd pick Eddie Jones
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Old 05-28-2008, 04:04 PM   #8350
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Decisions getting harder now, gotta choose between role players asked to do one or two things, or all-star cailber players with large-ish drawbacks. Fun!

Nah, that paints too bleak of a picture, there are still some quality players left.

D
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