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Old 05-27-2008, 07:20 PM   #7876
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by kidcolin View Post
depending on who is left when it gets back to me I could take a while. There's a few uber-stretches I want to make so badly.
talk about gay balls. You have 7 picks before you...thats at least an hour to think through the possible scenarios of who is there.
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Old 05-27-2008, 07:21 PM   #7877
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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greatttttttttt pick sorta
f

Last edited by fanmail; 05-27-2008 at 07:26 PM. Reason: cruel
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Old 05-27-2008, 07:21 PM   #7878
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I know that you are talking about this in a broad sense, but of course since I drafted AK47 thats the player I'm most interested in discussing. And with him his offense is still damn efficient. He has a bit lower usage, so he doesn't score as much but I don't really care too much about 3 or 4 more points per game, so I won't argue there as long as you'll admit that he'd be efficient in any system.

What matters for him is his defense, specifically how his blocks have gone down. I think, as many have mentioned, thats mostly due to being moved to the SF spot. I think I can easily move him back to PF and regain a lot of that.


Overall though, I understand your point and I agree.
oh, i was more directed towards Kevin Martin. regarding AK, i think he "fits in" on many more types of teams.

defensively (as has been posted before), he excels when he doesn't have to guard anyone, but is still a pretty good defender as long as his man isn't overly strong or quick.

offensively he doesn't need the ball to be run through him to score his 10-15 ppg, so he's not a total slouch. i mean he's only shooting 1-2 3-pointers per game so its not like he's chucking them all day
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Old 05-27-2008, 07:22 PM   #7879
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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But the risk is ALOT less, and thats what you aren't understanding.
A lot less compared to Kevin Martin. Yes.

A lot less compared to Deron Williams. I totally disagree.
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Old 05-27-2008, 07:22 PM   #7880
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I disagree that it's A LOT less, less maybe but not A LOT less unless that old timer was insanely durable which most weren't.
Someone who has played 80-82 games every year for 10+ is WAY MORE durable than someone who plays 80, 60, 50, 80, 70 etc
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Old 05-27-2008, 07:23 PM   #7881
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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f
wtf? Drazen defined a freak injury, he died in a car crash. That could happen to anyone in this league.

Also he was pretty good on the Blazers, they just didn't play him.
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Old 05-27-2008, 07:24 PM   #7882
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Someone who has played 80-82 games every year for 10+ is WAY MORE durable than someone who plays 80, 60, 50, 80, 70 etc
Of course, and there are only like 10 players in this entire draft that played 80-82 games for every year for 10+ seasons.
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Old 05-27-2008, 07:24 PM   #7883
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I know, that was probably a mean and unnecessary comment.
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Old 05-27-2008, 07:27 PM   #7884
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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wtf? Drazen defined a freak injury, he died in a car crash. That could happen to anyone in this league.
I'm not so sure about this.
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Old 05-27-2008, 07:27 PM   #7885
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Surprised Drazen went this early, but Horizon loves him so I guess it's OK. I'm all about reaches and having fun.

He is the definition of a pure shooter. That's all he did, and he did it extremely well.
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Old 05-27-2008, 07:28 PM   #7886
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I'm not so sure about this.
Why couldn't anyone die in a car crash? It could happen to anyone in this league...
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Old 05-27-2008, 07:29 PM   #7887
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I'm not so sure about this.
lol.. so weak frames and busted knees are no biggie, but a crash on the audobon (statistically a lot safer than US highways) ain't freak? c'mon now. I think it's fair to assume Drazen would have a long career just knocking down 3s.

He certainly wasn't getting any better at his age, but he could keep on twicking it for some time.
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Old 05-27-2008, 07:29 PM   #7888
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
Yes with players like Martin or Penny Hardaway there is an injury risk. However with players like Deron Williams there is no more injury risk than with someone who is retired and had few injury problems.

Moreover, many guys may have been injury prone but just gotten lucky to never get hurt. The guy I constantly think of regarding this is Allen Iverson. So small and so reckless...I think hes been extremely fortunate to never get hurt.
Well I'm not arguing that Deron Williams will get hurt. I'm not arguing that every young guy is injury prone. Kevin Martin is more likely to get hurt than Deron Williams, thats why I'm talking about this in regards to Kevin Martin and not Deron Williams.

Its not a big deal, but someone who played 15 years and was extremely durable should be considered less likely to get hurt than a guy who played 3 years and never got hurt. Both players shouldn't be expected to be injury prone, just one has a little bit more value in the durability department.

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Originally Posted by EPiPeN11 View Post
I disagree that it's A LOT less, less maybe but not A LOT less unless that old timer was insanely durable which most weren't.
Yes, its A LOT less. A guy who was insanely durable for 15 years is A LOT less likely to get hurt and be injury prone in this than someone who has already shown the ability to have injury issues in <5 seasons. How is this even arguable?

As someone said earlier in the thread, the best way to look at it is to assign a number from 1-10 on durability for this exercise. A guy who played in 82 games 16 times like John Stockton would be a 1. A guy who has missed 30 games in his first 3 seasons is maybe a 4-7. A guy who is over a 5 is MUCH more likely to get hurt than John Stockton or any extremely durable guy.

And I know your next argument, anyone can get a freak injury. Well it doesn't hold water because yes ANYONE can get a freak injury, so it shouldn't be used as an argument against a durable player because the likeliness of it happening is still very small, just as it is equally for every player in the draft.
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Old 05-27-2008, 07:29 PM   #7889
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Of course, and there are only like 10 players in this entire draft that played 80-82 games for every year for 10+ seasons.
There are way more than 10 guys who consistently were healthy, but maybe had 1 or 2 seasons with injuries. I'm just saying its an uphill battle when you have a young player who has already shown injury-proneness.
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Old 05-27-2008, 07:31 PM   #7890
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Franchise 60 View Post
Yes, its A LOT less. A guy who was insanely durable for 15 years is A LOT less likely to get hurt and be injury prone in this than someone who has already shown the ability to have injury issues in <5 seasons. How is this even arguable?

As someone said earlier in the thread, the best way to look at it is to assign a number from 1-10 on durability for this exercise. A guy who played in 82 games 16 times like John Stockton would be a 1. A guy who has missed 30 games in his first 3 seasons is maybe a 4-7. A guy who is over a 5 is MUCH more likely to get hurt than John Stockton or any extremely durable guy.

And I know your next argument, anyone can get a freak injury. Well it doesn't hold water because yes ANYONE can get a freak injury, so it shouldn't be used as an argument against a durable player because the likeliness of it happening is still very small, just as it is equally for every player in the draft.
You misread my quote, here it is again:

Originally Posted by EPiPeN11
I disagree that it's A LOT less, less maybe but not A LOT less unless that old timer was insanely durable which most weren't.
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Old 05-27-2008, 07:32 PM   #7891
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Petro! Yea, really glad to see him get picked. A complete assassin from beyond the arc and a member of the aforementioned TS%>.60 + PPG>20 club.

Ah, what could have been.

D
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Old 05-27-2008, 07:32 PM   #7892
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by EPiPeN11 View Post
Why couldn't anyone die in a car crash? It could happen to anyone in this league...
Sorry if I was unclear. Yes it COULD happen to anyone. That doesn't mean everyone is equally likely. I could explain if you need to me.
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Old 05-27-2008, 07:33 PM   #7893
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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His assist and efficiency numbers have not fallen off one bit. His steals and blocks have, but as has been explained thats due to his move to the SF. When you're out there on a wing guy, you can't roam very often. When you're right there near the paint on D you will often be there for blocks and steals when the ball enters the lane. I plan to play him at the PF.

I like how you ignored every offensive stat I brought up btw.


You mention that Prince has played on winning teams, but if anything that should help his efficiency numbers, and hes not as efficient as AK47. I'd much rather have the more efficient guy in a league like this where I'm not going to need a ton of bulk scoring.
wtf am i supposed to say about his stats? um ya, dude, i agree those stats you provided are indeed correct. nice job looking up numbers and reciting them.

oh wait, he shot 37% from 3 this year. before that he was pretty mediocre, if not bad. proly around 30. so he has one good year and all of a sudden hes an established 3 pt shooter.

u harp on his .6 ts. well, career he is .57. just sayin.

his career per is great and obv he had a specatular 41 games one year but he has fallen to 14 and 17 the last 2 years. yet u say his efficiency hasnt dropped. u really sayin that his decline in blocks and assists explains him dropping 7-10 per. i just dont buy it.
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Old 05-27-2008, 07:33 PM   #7894
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Drazen was sick imo. I was crushed when he died.
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Old 05-27-2008, 07:34 PM   #7895
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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There are way more than 10 guys who consistently were healthy, but maybe had 1 or 2 seasons with injuries. I'm just saying its an uphill battle when you have a young player who has already shown injury-proneness.
This is what you said:

Someone who has played 80-82 games every year for 10+ is WAY MORE durable than someone who plays 80, 60, 50, 80, 70 etc

And I said there were only like 10 guys in this draft like that.

Now you changed your argument to saying there are way more than 10 guys who consistently were healthy but maybe had 1 or 2 seasons with injuries. Of course these players are less likley to get injured than Kevin Martin, but they are not A LOT less likley (A lot less likley would only apply to the people who played 80-82 games every year for 10+ years).
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Old 05-27-2008, 07:35 PM   #7896
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Sorry if I was unclear. Yes it COULD happen to anyone. That doesn't mean everyone is equally likely. I could explain if you need to me.
ok I agree with this, but the type of accident drazen was involved in wasn't drazens fault, a truck went over a median on a very rainy day, and right infront of their car, it was pretty much unavoidable and that type of accident could equally happen to anyone (assuming they all drive on the highway which every NBA player I know does).
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Old 05-27-2008, 07:36 PM   #7897
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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lol.. so weak frames and busted knees are no biggie, but a crash on the audobon (statistically a lot safer than US highways) ain't freak? c'mon now. I think it's fair to assume Drazen would have a long career just knocking down 3s.

He certainly wasn't getting any better at his age, but he could keep on twicking it for some time.
fo realz. i think assani is leveling or whatever.
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Old 05-27-2008, 07:37 PM   #7898
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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wtf am i supposed to say about his stats? um ya, dude, i agree those stats you provided are indeed correct. nice job looking up numbers and reciting them.

oh wait, he shot 37% from 3 this year. before that he was pretty mediocre, if not bad. proly around 30. so he has one good year and all of a sudden hes an established 3 pt shooter.

u harp on his .6 ts. well, career he is .57. just sayin.

his career per is great and obv he had a specatular 41 games one year but he has fallen to 14 and 17 the last 2 years. yet u say his efficiency hasnt dropped. u really sayin that his decline in blocks and assists explains him dropping 7-10 per. i just dont buy it.
Those stats proved you wrong. You said he offered little to nothing on offense except for standing around, passing to open teamates, and shooting ugly 3s. I showed that he is a very good all around offensive player.

I agree with you on the health issues, so I don't know why you keep bringing them up.
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Old 05-27-2008, 07:39 PM   #7899
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by EPiPeN11 View Post
You misread my quote, here it is again:

Originally Posted by EPiPeN11
I disagree that it's A LOT less, less maybe but not A LOT less unless that old timer was insanely durable which most weren't.
Obviously most guys weren't insanely durable for 10 plus years. But I was arguing about very-extremely durable guys compared to others, so I guess its a moot argument since we basically agree.

I'm not arguing a guy who was hurt a bunch of times in 15 years is less likely to get hurt than a guy who has been hurt or banged up a couple of times in 3-4 years.
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Old 05-27-2008, 07:39 PM   #7900
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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ok I agree with this, but the type of accident drazen was involved in wasn't drazens fault, a truck went over a median on a very rainy day, and right infront of their car, it was pretty much unavoidable and that type of accident could equally happen to anyone (assuming they all drive on the highway which every NBA player I know does).
Drazen had a history of being unhappy with his role and situation though. From wiki:

Self-admittedly, Petrović needed new challenges, which Cibona and the Yugoslavian league could not offer. Across the Atlantic, the Portland Trail Blazers of the NBA had already used their third round pick on young Petrović in 1986. However, he decided to postpone his departure to the United States and in 1988 signed with Real Madrid instead, for at that time a hefty sum of around US$ 4 million


The beginning of the 1990-1991 season brought Petrović's frustration to a climax, as his playing time dropped to 7 minutes a game.[13] At his insistence, 38 games into the season (in 20 of which Petrović didn't see any playing time), a three-way trade with the Denver Nuggets sent him to the New Jersey Nets in exchange for a first-round pick in the following draft

He was contemplating departure from the Nets, disappointed with tension between himself and, to his belief, envious teammates, as well as the fact that the Nets had not yet extended his contract. He told American reporters that the lack of recognition in the league had him also considering leaving the NBA completely and playing club basketball in Greece.

For personal reasons, Petrović decided not to return to Croatia from Poland together with his teammates, but in a private vehicle.
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