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Old 05-27-2008, 12:39 PM   #7676
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
I'm not really interested in that. I'm saying that hes likely to miss games at a high rate. I'm sure that maybe next year he'll play 74 or 75 games- I have no problem admitting that. But I think hes very likely to miss a lot of games sometime soon, and I don't think hes the type to ever play in every game(or at least it'd be a rare thing).
I disagree with this, in no way am I saying Kevin Martin is ridiculously durable, but hes not injury prone either, hes somewhere inbetween.

He has already played 80 games in 1 season out of 4, that is close enough to 82.
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Old 05-27-2008, 12:40 PM   #7677
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

i take epip's side that if a guy consistently plays 76 or so games, he's a pretty healthy guy.

That said, that's not the case with Kevin Martin
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Old 05-27-2008, 12:41 PM   #7678
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I forgot to ask this earlier, how is Kevin Martin so far ahead (or simply ahead, for that matter) of Dale Ellis? If you compare Ellis' 4 Seattle years and Martin's 2 Sacramento years they're basically identical (Ellis has a slight edge in every (i think) statistic except TS%). Sacramento has a faster pace than Seattle did as well. They also both had similar roles on their teams during these time periods.

What pushes KM so far over the top?
I don't think KM is far ahead of Dale Ellis at all, infact I think all those guys are on that list are very close.

I think way too many people are holding it AGAINST young guys who have already shown they are stars in the league. Yes I understand holding it against someone like Bynum who hasn't proven he is a star, but Kevin Martin has proven he is a star in this league. He has improved each year, and I find no reason why he shouldn't at least stay the same, if not continue to improve (barring injury of course, but then again people forget that just because an older player didn't get hurt DOESN'T mean he can't get hurt in this league).
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Old 05-27-2008, 12:43 PM   #7679
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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i take epip's side that if a guy consistently plays 76 or so games, he's a pretty healthy guy.

That said, that's not the case with Kevin Martin
eh I disagree, someone like Yao is more injury prone than Kevin Martin and no one mentioned that much about Yao being injury prone when he was picked.
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Old 05-27-2008, 12:45 PM   #7680
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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wtf is your definition of injury prone then? Hes a guy with a very thin frame who misses games EVERY SEASON due to injury. Historically these type of guys are: A.very likely to keep missing games every season due to injury, B.more likely to suffer a serious injury than other players, and C. unable to recover from serious injuries as quick as other players.

I would make a prop bet with you for any amount up to $10,000 if you want:

If Kevin Martin plays in only 50 games in a season first I win.

If Kevin Martin plays in all 82 games in a season first you win.
That's a ridiculous bet that you should be ashamed of for having offered it.
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Old 05-27-2008, 12:47 PM   #7681
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Regarding Mookie:
Perimeter defence was the last team this team needed. With Ewing and Nance inside, he’s guaranteed to have a solid defence even playing three corpses on the perimeter. Energy and team defense can make up for the limitations of individual players if they’re surrounded by solid post players(see tony parker);and, a great defensive point guard is not even as valuable as great defensive swingman. Basically, the main asset of your pick is not of great value to your team.
By adding great perimeter scoring, this team becomes unstoppable, with very good defense and balanced offense. You went the other way and now your team is more a grinding team on the model of the 90s Knicks. They’ll give trouble to any team, but probably won’t blow anyone out. If the games are close, you’re not necessarily in a dream spot as many teams in the draft will have better closer than you do.
In my opinion, if you went for scoring in the third and fourth round and wait for the fifth to get a decent perimiter defender, the draft is basically over. You’ll have too much offensive talent coupled with a great D for anyone to compete.
By picking Moochie, you let the other teams get back in the running. It’s still not a bad pick because he’s good value at this point and your team remain very solid. And maybe you’ll won’t give up much because you’ll be able to pick good scoring threats in the next towo rounds
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Old 05-27-2008, 12:48 PM   #7682
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

mookie just sounds so racist
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Old 05-27-2008, 12:48 PM   #7683
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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eh I disagree, someone like Yao is more injury prone than Kevin Martin and no one mentioned that much about Yao being injury prone when he was picked.
Yao is injury prone, that doesn't mean that Kevin Martin isn't.
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Old 05-27-2008, 12:52 PM   #7684
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Yao is injury prone, that doesn't mean that Kevin Martin isn't.
fair enough I still don't think he is injury prone...like I said, I don't think hes durable but I don't think hes injury prone either, hes somewhere inbetween.
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Old 05-27-2008, 12:54 PM   #7685
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

moochie.. de-fence.. good yet tilting post
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Old 05-27-2008, 12:55 PM   #7686
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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fair enough I still don't think he is injury prone...like I said, I don't think hes durable but I don't think hes injury prone either, hes somewhere inbetween.
Yeah I'm not saying he is either. Only time will tell with that one.
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Old 05-27-2008, 01:04 PM   #7687
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Alright guys I wasn't on yesterday afternoon or evening so within the next 30 minutes I will have my pick up or a trade request.
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Old 05-27-2008, 01:06 PM   #7688
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Also this skinny guys being injury prone is way overblown, yes it does have some truth for bigmen because they are always banging inside, but for guards/sf's, there are tons of them that have been skinny and were very durable.

Tayshaun Prince, Isiah Thomas, Gary Payton, Allen Iverson, Reggie Miller, Rip Hamilton, Tony Parker, etc. (would name more but they haven't been drafted).
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Old 05-27-2008, 01:20 PM   #7689
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Alright guys I wasn't on yesterday afternoon or evening so within the next 30 minutes I will have my pick up or a trade request.
Sweet.
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Old 05-27-2008, 01:26 PM   #7690
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by EPiPeN11 View Post
Also this skinny guys being injury prone is way overblown, yes it does have some truth for bigmen because they are always banging inside, but for guards/sf's, there are tons of them that have been skinny and were very durable.

Tayshaun Prince, Isiah Thomas, Gary Payton, Allen Iverson, Reggie Miller, Rip Hamilton, Tony Parker, etc. (would name more but they haven't been drafted).
Zeke, Payton, AI, and Tony Parker average like 6-3 175 pounds. Martin is 6-7, 185. Prince is over 200 pounds. Hamilton and Miller are close though.,
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Old 05-27-2008, 01:29 PM   #7691
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Zeke, Payton, AI, and Tony Parker average like 6-3 175 pounds. Martin is 6-7, 185. Prince is over 200 pounds. Hamilton and Miller are close though.,
Ok well they are still all really skinny regardless.

And Iverson def doesn't weigh 175, just cause it's listed doesn't mean its true.
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Old 05-27-2008, 01:31 PM   #7692
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I like Odom on this team a lot, was wondering when he would go. Team has a lot of high volume shooters so Odom can just pass, play D, help defense and occasionally have an open shot.
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Old 05-27-2008, 01:32 PM   #7693
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

This was too soon for Lamar. That said, I don't hate it. With Glen and Hakeem you don't really need scoring, but getting someone who can handle the ball, rebound, pass, and play defense is always nice. Good pick.
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Old 05-27-2008, 01:32 PM   #7694
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Odom, I thought he'd go soon. Are you going to put him at the 3? At the 4 I think he's definitely not good enough defensively, but I think he rebounds well.

I think he's a good value pick here.
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Old 05-27-2008, 01:33 PM   #7695
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I think Odom could play either the 3 or 4 on that team with Rice playing the 2 or the 3 depending on who you play... not sure I'd want Odom as my *only* option for the 4, but when you have Hakeem you don't need another great post defender.
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Old 05-27-2008, 01:35 PM   #7696
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

There goes one of the guys I wanted

btw, i like it.
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Old 05-27-2008, 01:36 PM   #7697
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

it's pretty easy to win arguments when you get to decide what information is true and what is not
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Old 05-27-2008, 01:37 PM   #7698
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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This was too soon for Lamar. That said, I don't hate it. With Glen and Hakeem you don't really need scoring, but getting someone who can handle the ball, rebound, pass, and play defense is always nice. Good pick.
Ty sir.

That was definitley the rationale behind this pick. I have a second rebounder who is very versatile. He can score if he needs to but will be very happy just playing a role. He also creates mismatches for almost any 4 that covers him. A player this versatile and talented in the late 3rd round is a steal IMO. I think he also fits in perfectly with my squad.
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Old 05-27-2008, 01:37 PM   #7699
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by horizon View Post
Regarding Mookie:
Perimeter defence was the last team this team needed. With Ewing and Nance inside, he’s guaranteed to have a solid defence even playing three corpses on the perimeter. Energy and team defense can make up for the limitations of individual players if they’re surrounded by solid post players(see tony parker);and, a great defensive point guard is not even as valuable as great defensive swingman. Basically, the main asset of your pick is not of great value to your team.

By adding great perimeter scoring, this team becomes unstoppable, with very good defense and balanced offense. You went the other way and now your team is more a grinding team on the model of the 90s Knicks. They’ll give trouble to any team, but probably won’t blow anyone out. If the games are close, you’re not necessarily in a dream spot as many teams in the draft will have better closer than you do.

In my opinion, if you went for scoring in the third and fourth round and wait for the fifth to get a decent perimiter defender, the draft is basically over. You’ll have too much offensive talent coupled with a great D for anyone to compete.

By picking Moochie, you let the other teams get back in the running. It’s still not a bad pick because he’s good value at this point and your team remain very solid. And maybe you’ll won’t give up much because you’ll be able to pick good scoring threats in the next towo rounds
The biggest problem with having a guy like Mookie is that he's going to be mismatched on a lot of bigger guys. He's 6-0. The only guys he can realistically guard are PGs, which is very limiting when so many offensive games rely in taking advantage of defensive switching and mismatches. Once Mookie switches, he can't really body up on anyone. He can't even really body up on most PGs. He can get into passing lanes, maybe poke away balls for steals, but his height will be exploited. Big point guards - and most of them are 6-3 are over - will be able to post him up. He won't be able to rotate to contest open looks.

The good thing about Mookie playing with the great post defenders is that he won't nearly have to rotate as much. But as soon as he runs into a bigger, good shooting point guard, I think a lot of his positives on defense start to vanish.
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Old 05-27-2008, 01:38 PM   #7700
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Odom, I thought he'd go soon. Are you going to put him at the 3? At the 4 I think he's definitely not good enough defensively, but I think he rebounds well.

I think he's a good value pick here.
I haven't decided if I'm going to put him at the 3 or 4 yet but he gives me versatility and it's just not a niche pick the guy can actually play. I think I got great value for the late 3rd round with Odom here.
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