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Old 05-26-2008, 10:53 PM   #7601
Assani Fisher
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by BobboFitos View Post
How is it a decision Grant vs Oakley? Horace is everything Charles was, just a notch better.
Charles is a much better rebounder. His rebound % numbers are significantly better than Grant's across the board....plus his rebounding numbers were hurt by playing with Ewing.

Oakley was also more durable. Horace Grant never played all 82 games in a season...Oakley did it six times(plus played all the games in the strike shortened year).

This is just personal opinion, but I like Oakley's defense a bit more too.


I take it that the reason we were looking at these guys was due to rebounding, defense, and consistency. So while Horace may be a slightly better scorer, I'll take the guy who did those things better.
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Old 05-26-2008, 10:56 PM   #7602
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I really think that Martin's isn't as bad on the defenseive end as his numbers suggest. The kings interior defense is so poor that it brings down the ratings of their perimeter players. The interior players shoulder a much larger burden for your team defense. Even looking at Artest's numbers who was no doubt an elite defenderhad a drtg that has increased from 104, 105,108 the past 3 years in sacramento. While his worst year in Indiana was 100 with multiple seasons in the 90s.
Martin couldn't defend in the Southern Conference. I haven't seen much of him in the NBA but I can't imagine his D improved.
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Old 05-26-2008, 10:57 PM   #7603
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I am interested in that pick Assani. I'm only a <10 spot drop from there to.
The problem is that you only have 1 fourth rounder and my 5th rounder is higher than yours too. Imo once we get a starting 5, moving up is no longer as important. Therefore I probably wouldn't be interested in doing it for moving up later on.

I do like Oakley a lot though. Any players on the board right now that you still like? I would do something like Oakley+your 4th for my 3rd(one pick away) and my early 4th.
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Old 05-26-2008, 11:00 PM   #7604
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

DEFENSIVE METRICS LIKE DRATING COMPLETELY BLOW AND SUCK STOP USING THEM PLEASE IT'S DRIVING ME NUTS.
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Old 05-26-2008, 11:06 PM   #7605
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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DEFENSIVE METRICS LIKE DRATING COMPLETELY BLOW AND SUCK STOP USING THEM PLEASE IT'S DRIVING ME NUTS.
DRtg is okay when you know what it is. Look at the top DRtg players of all time, you generally have great defenders there. IMO in and of itself it isn't useful - look at Artest being a 108 - but then you realize he plays on a pretty bad defensive team and he's the best rated guy there.
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Old 05-26-2008, 11:08 PM   #7606
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Right but just throwing out, Oh he had a 98 DRtg for four years he is good at defense LIKE IT IS TRUTH is annoying the shi* out of me.
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Old 05-26-2008, 11:17 PM   #7607
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Right but just throwing out, Oh he had a 98 DRtg for four years he is good at defense LIKE IT IS TRUTH is annoying the shi* out of me.
Oh, I understand that. But a guy who has a 98 DRtg is in almost all circumstances going to be a pretty good defensive player.
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Old 05-26-2008, 11:19 PM   #7608
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

just "discovered" another player. Now theres 5 guys I'm targetting.
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Old 05-26-2008, 11:24 PM   #7609
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

what's with the quotes around "discovered"
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Old 05-26-2008, 11:25 PM   #7610
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I'm in a weird predicament(sp?) here btw....theres one guy who I definitely want more than another, but I think he has a better chance of slipping to me in the 4th whereas this other guy will probably be taken before then. Decisions, decisions....
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Old 05-26-2008, 11:27 PM   #7611
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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what's with the quotes around "discovered"
I didn't literally discover him obviously. But I just thougth about him now.
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Old 05-26-2008, 11:30 PM   #7612
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

ahhh...well it doesnt look like bigchips is around now but hopefully we can knock out the bottom of the order and then the reverse tomorrow.
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Old 05-26-2008, 11:38 PM   #7613
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

yea I should be around for spots here and there tonight
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Old 05-26-2008, 11:43 PM   #7614
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I really think that Martin's isn't as bad on the defenseive end as his numbers suggest. The kings interior defense is so poor that it brings down the ratings of their perimeter players. The interior players shoulder a much larger burden for your team defense. Even looking at Artest's numbers who was no doubt an elite defenderhad a drtg that has increased from 104, 105,108 the past 3 years in sacramento. While his worst year in Indiana was 100 with multiple seasons in the 90s.
The kings had decent interior defense; those pacers just had elite interior defense. (Jermaine O'Neal)
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Old 05-26-2008, 11:59 PM   #7615
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Love the Rashard Lewis pick, the others seem alright, nothing particularly great or bad.
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Old 05-27-2008, 12:09 AM   #7616
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Why Rashard is not a better defender is a mystery to me. He's very quick, very tall (6'10 for a 3), has been in the league for a while to "understand," things... But he's simply a poor defender. Possibly low bball IQ, I don't know.

Regardless, Alex has one of the best offensive teams, it's just incredible. Defensively, he's going to have problems with 2 below avg defenders.
Yeah, I was going to take a defensive-minded player to go for a strong, balanced team. Then I figured all of the other top teams would have similar structures and decided to take a chance at having the best offense in the league.
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Old 05-27-2008, 12:12 AM   #7617
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Yeah, I was going to take a defensive-minded player to go for a strong, balanced team. Then I figured all of the other top teams would have similar structures and decided to take a chance at having the best offense in the league.
not just that, but you have such a versatile team. not only can all your guys play 2 positions, and do them well, but as we've witnessed in the past year from the olympics and with the new look lakers, kobe has insane adapting abilities. he can be an all-out shut down defender + non-first option offensive player, can be a playmaker, can be a pure get the eff out my way scorer, i'm sure he has other looks. i realllllly like this pick.
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Old 05-27-2008, 12:26 AM   #7618
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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not just that, but you have such a versatile team. not only can all your guys play 2 positions, and do them well, but as we've witnessed in the past year from the olympics and with the new look lakers, kobe has insane adapting abilities. he can be an all-out shut down defender + non-first option offensive player, can be a playmaker, can be a pure get the eff out my way scorer, i'm sure he has other looks. i realllllly like this pick.
Thanks, to be honest, I expected some heat for this pick.
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Old 05-27-2008, 12:26 AM   #7619
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

i went to most of rips games when he was in washington and i thought he was awful. ive since amended my thoughts about him, but he is definitely aided greatly by being surrounded by good players now- which i guess you could say about nearly anyone, but it seems especially true with him.
on the right team he is a great piece i guess.

i lived in atlanta for 5 years during mookies heyday and watched tons of hawks games - he's seriously terrible at basketball.

kevin martin is a guy who could disappear in 2 years. i can't put my finger on it, but i can just imagine having the "whatever happened to kevin martin" conversation with someone a few years from now.

i don't know what to make of jamison - i always think he seems pretty good but all people ever talk about is how overrated he is.

i like rashard lewis a lot but thats a weird looking threesome to me.
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Old 05-27-2008, 01:10 AM   #7620
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Did I get dropped out of draft or am I still in, I was gone for the weekend
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Old 05-27-2008, 01:23 AM   #7621
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

no, and you dont pick for 36 more picks. next time if you're relatively close and you have to go somewhere, just say something and it will really calm the haters when they're saying "WHERE IS ________?!?!?!?"
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Old 05-27-2008, 01:26 AM   #7622
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

oh and to anyone coming back from the holiday weekend, you can catch up via the spreadsheet, seen here:
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?k...r1EoIoaA&gid=0
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Old 05-27-2008, 01:48 AM   #7623
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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kevin martin is a guy who could disappear in 2 years. i can't put my finger on it, but i can just imagine having the "whatever happened to kevin martin" conversation with someone a few years from now.
Agreed. I don't want to debate it, because I don't really know what form my argument would take (have some ideas, but can't look into them now), but he's a player who, from watching him play a good amount, I feel is overrated by both a lot of observers and the stats. It might just be a prejudice against players with ugly shots, but he really seems to me like a guy whose career will consist of putting up numbers on fringe playoff teams that really have no chance of winning anything. He'd be 3rd option at best on a good team.

Sorta how I based my entire prop-bet with Bobbo on the fact that, "I just can't possibly picture an SI Commerative 2008 NBA Champion Utah Jazz Package coming on during sportscenter commercials."

Also, I'm in love with Seadood's team.
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Old 05-27-2008, 02:35 AM   #7624
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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to me basketball players can't be evaluated the same way as baseball players. Some of these measurements are valuable and can give you a good idea, but these measurements still suffer from the fact that basketball is very much a team sport, and a fluid one at that.
qfttttttttttttt i've been saying that for so long
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Old 05-27-2008, 02:39 AM   #7625
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

keith.. if the officials didnt **** the jazz over game 5 tho, we very well COULD have a SI commerative 2008 NBA champion utah jazz package.

hell, the spurs have won multiple championships, why cant we?
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